Taking a poll: AKWG Winter Activity

[Ed Bos]

Hey folks on CT-

I'm asking for some ideas about hosting an annual winter activity in Alaska.

My intent is to provide

1) Cold weather camping/survival training;

2) Cold weather ES training;

3) An opportunity to learn about AK and what CAP in AK is like.

I'd like to know:

- if folks from around the country would be interested in something like that at all,

- what they would be interested in doing,

- how much they would expect to spend on that sort of activity,

- what sorts of items they would expect to be provided and what they would expect to provide for themselves,

- any other ideas, suggestions, or constructive criticisms that may be out there.

Please be positive about your comments. I'd really like to get this project moving ahead, and I'm looking forward to stealing all the good ideas I can get.

-Ed

[capchiro]

I know you asked for positive responses, but, the truth is that I feel the overall expense to individual members from most places in the lower states would far outweigh any benefit to be gained other than a casual curiosity.  I may be wrong and maybe you can pull it off, but don't be surprised if you don't get a great response.  Most members feel that they have more than enough to do locally and the money could be spent preparing for local training or resources.  Sorry to be a downer.. 

[Walkman]

I don't have any brilliant ideas to help you out. However, if I could afford the money & time, I'd be there in a heartbeat. An AK adventure of some sort is on my bucket list.

[Eclipse]

Good luck, sounds like fun...

[Ed Bos]

@Walkman: Thanks! I realize that the expense is significant, so the schedule I'm putting together is (hopefully) going to ensure everyone leaves feeling like they got something out of it. Hopefully we'll get you up here one of these days.

@Eclipse: That's the plan.

[Star-Maker]

Hi Bos!      (You taught me at NESA GTL school this past summer.)

It sounds like fun to me, but as others have mentioned, the cost (not just in terms of plane fare and such, but in terms of having to burn vacation time, or take the lost wages if you don't get paid vacation) might be prohibitive.

As it can get cold in New England, cold-weather survival training could be useful for some of us in my wing.

It might be interesting to learn about disaster relief for cold-weather disasters - blizzards, ice storms, etc.  I know that's occasionally relevant around here.

[RADIOMAN015]

I don't think many of the folks in AK wing have a big interest in purposely going out into -20 to -40F degree weather in the winter just to practice survival skills :angel:  At best AK missions are primarily aircraft search from the air and either local rescue or Air/Army National Guard resources (primarily by air) are utilized once the aircraft is found.  Perhaps someone in AK could address ground team ops more.

Even in the summer in AK, you can get hyperthermia quickly (especially in the Anchorage & south/west coastal mountain areas).
Been stationed there and there's been special briefings given to personnel arriving about the dangers of the weather.

It's very expensive to fly to Alaska.  We would fly home for some holidays.  Also drove the Alaskan highway both ways.  Wonderful experience never to be forgotten, and I'd urge anyone that has the opportunity to visit up there to do it :clap:
RM   

[Ed Bos]

@Radioman015, (and everyone else who is focusing on the challenges I'm up against for holding this activity)

Perhaps i just don't have any credibility because I haven't been very active on these message boards. Let me explain a little about what I'm trying to accomplish...

First, I'm Major Edward Bos, AKWG Chief of Staff, and National Emergency Services Academy Cadre member. I'm also a crew member of the 210th Rescue Squadron, and am familiar with many different facets of SAR in and outside of Alaska.

Second, having been through the USAF "Cool School" as well as a few other activities, I'm already familiar with the requirements for hosting this sort of survival activity.

Third, I have intimate knowledge of the costs of airfare between Alaska and the contiguous states. What many of you may not know is that we have a difficult time having any sort of wing-wide participation because we have similar problems with transportation costs just within the state.

Thank you all for pointing out these valid concerns, however few of these comments have provided any of the feedback I actually asked for.

In the end, I'm hoping on modeling this activity in the vein of Hawk Mountain or one of the multiple Boy Scout High Adventure Bases. I would like to provide Alaska Wing members a way to attend a Wing-sponsored activity with national interest (like Hawk Mountain) without having to travel to the lower 48 to do so. I mentioned the BSA High Adventure Bases because they're examples of widely-geographically-separated activities that not only have high attendance rates, but also have waiting lists for years in order sign up to participate.

So, back to the original point, if I've satisfied the concerns people seem to have...

Hypothetically, if you were going to Alaska for a Winter CAP activity, what would you expect to see?

[FARRIER]

This is an idea from a friends experience with the Marines in Colorado. They spent a weekend in the Rockies learing how to construct snow caves and survive.

@Radioman015, (and everyone else who is focusing on the challenges I'm up against for holding this activity)

Perhaps i just don't have any credibility because I haven't been very active on these message boards. Let me explain a little about what I'm trying to accomplish...

First, I'm Major Edward Bos, AKWG Chief of Staff, and National Emergency Services Academy Cadre member. I'm also a crew member of the 210th Rescue Squadron, and am familiar with many different facets of SAR in and outside of Alaska.

Second, having been through the USAF "Cool School" as well as a few other activities, I'm already familiar with the requirements for hosting this sort of survival activity.

Third, I have intimate knowledge of the costs of airfare between Alaska and the contiguous states. What many of you may not know is that we have a difficult time having any sort of wing-wide participation because we have similar problems with transportation costs just within the state.

Thank you all for pointing out these valid concerns, however few of these comments have provided any of the feedback I actually asked for.

In the end, I'm hoping on modeling this activity in the vein of Hawk Mountain or one of the multiple Boy Scout High Adventure Bases. I would like to provide Alaska Wing members a way to attend a Wing-sponsored activity with national interest (like Hawk Mountain) without having to travel to the lower 48 to do so. I mentioned the BSA High Adventure Bases because they're examples of widely-geographically-separated activities that not only have high attendance rates, but also have waiting lists for years in order sign up to participate.

So, back to the original point, if I've satisfied the concerns people seem to have...

Hypothetically, if you were going to Alaska for a Winter CAP activity, what would you expect to see?

[NIN]

Ed,

I read your original post, and personally, I thought it was an awesome idea.  Couple guys I know (Shawn Stanford & Scott Matthews) speak pretty highly of you, and that's cred enough in my book.

Speaking as a guy who lived in the Northern Tier of the lower 48 his whole life, the idea of an activity in Alaska sounds like a total blast.

However, the idea of a *winter* activity in Alaska, well, that makes my toes curl just a bit.

"Hi, welcome to the Winter Ops School here in Anchorage,  did everybody remember to plug in their block heaters? Aircrews, please be sure to put the Herman-Nelson heater hoses back on the carts before you crank. Someone ran one over the other day, and the darn things are expensive."  I just shivered a bunch typing that.

That being said, I'm sure there are a ton of cool things to be learned in Alaska, and I know there are some tremendous sights to be seen (I've seen Denali at sunrise climbing out of Anchorage enroute Yakota.. it was *awesome*). But I'm not 100% sure that a "deep arctic" kind of exercise would be that appealing to a sufficient spectrum of CAP members to get the level of participation versus the expense that would be incurred.  Certainly, some of this kind of winter ops activity you can get in a Minot or Grand Forks kind of locale if you're going solely for "winter ops" kind of training. 

But I'm guessing that a lot of folks could be turned off of the idea of an activity where the packing list includes such items as "N3B parka" and "Bunny Boots"  and the activity waiver includes the phrase "the potential for hypothermia and/or extreme frostbite which could require amputation of the affected limb."

If you were talking a "late summer, early fall" activity, that might be a different matter (obviously taking into account the start of school and such in the lower 48), and I think that the potential for a "Hawk Mountain-like" activity during that kind of a time frame might have far, far greater appeal.

I could be wrong, but I guess my point is: We can get "winter" pretty easily already, without the expense of going to Alaska, so perhaps the draw might be some other aspect of Alaska, at a different time of the year.

In any event, I think any kind of an "national scope" activity run in Alaska would be a great opportunity to bring "lower 48 CAP" to "The Last Frontier."

[Spaceman3750]

Good to hear from you again Maj. Bos .

This sounds like a great activity. For a week of training, I would expect to pay between $150-$200 not including transportation (this is on par with the likes of NESA, etc).

If I were to attend, I would want training on how to prepare shelter and overcome the challenge of finding food in a snow-covered wilderness environment. I would also want training on techniques to attract rescue.

On the flip side, as a rescuer, I would want education on the differences between regular wilderness SAR and SAR in climates such as Alaska. I would also want hands-on training in leading a ground team through this harsh environment and any additional navigation skills required in the AK environment.

[DBlair]

I don't have any brilliant ideas to help you out. However, if I could afford the money & time, I'd be there in a heartbeat. An AK adventure of some sort is on my bucket list.

I agree. I believe cost (equipment, travel, etc) would be the big issue. Likewise, I'd suggest it being held at a time other than the most brutal Alaskan winter periods. Overall, this seems like it could be an awesome activity and someone most people rarely get to experience.

[Ed Bos]

@NIN

So what would you rather see? The Alaska Wing Salmon Fishing Activity? Maybe Mid-July?   

-Ed

[JC004]

@NIN

So what would you rather see? The Alaska Wing Salmon Fishing Activity? Maybe Mid-July?   

-Ed

YES.  If I were active and had massive amounts of money, I would attend both of these activities.  You need to make the fishing one sound better in its name than "Activity" though. 

Now where do I register for the fishing one?   

[a2capt]

Barring getting there, I'd be all over it if that were not an obstacle.

..and I'd still be royally tempted to plan a way to make it happen.

[NIN]

So what would you rather see? The Alaska Wing Salmon Fishing Activity? Maybe Mid-July?   

Nah, thats the middle of skydiving season. And I don't fish. Too fumble-fingered to tie flys.

I dunno, really. I read back over my post and I was a little unfocused.  I guess my point was: I think a course of some kind in Alaska is a good idea, but you might have better luck with something more in the summer, just on straight availability of cadets and seniors.  We can do "cold as hell winter" in the Lower 48 pretty well, and in places where its much easier and cheaper to get there.  However, I believe the allure of Alaska would bring people in to a summer activity just fine.

[Ed Bos]

Thanks for the feedback everyone. We'll be conducting a trial run at this from 27 Dec - 4 Jan on Joint Base Elmendorf-Richardson.

Anyone interested in braving the airfare and that pesky weather-thing we have is welcome to message me and get more details.

-Ed

PS- I'm probably going to greet everyone coming in from Outside at the airport with a "Waiver of Liability and Acknowledgement Amputation Risk" now... I think that's hilarious :-)

[DBlair]

Thanks for the feedback everyone. We'll be conducting a trial run at this from 27 Dec - 4 Jan on Joint Base Elmendorf-Richardson.

Anyone interested in braving the airfare and that pesky weather-thing we have is welcome to message me and get more details.

-Ed

Wish I could. FLWG Winter Encampment falls on pretty much the same dates, though.