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Author Topic: CAP participation at political events  (Read 10761 times)
Patterson
Seasoned Member

Posts: 316

« Reply #20 on: September 08, 2010, 02:47:33 PM »

^ I would say the majority of events some Squadrons participate in are "political events".  Too many people are caught up on the idea that just because a Democrat or Republican is President means we can not "post the American Flag" at a support for a veterans group which just might be sponsored by an opposing political party. 

We need to decide "support or no support" strictly on the nature of the event.  If the event is to raise money for a particular candidate running for some kind of office, then "NO"....and I agree with that.  HOWEVER, if we are supporting an event that raises money for wounded Service Members which may just have happened to be setup by a political party....the answer would be "HELL YES LETS SUPPORT OUR WOUNDED SERVICE MEMBERS".

Some of you are ignorant and too quick to drop the "NO" on something that really is more innocent than the last fundraiser you probably supported.  If you buy Girl Scout cookies or Boy Scout Popcorn you support organizations that HATE homosexuals and will not let them be members.  If you sent in a check to "the American Cancer Society" you just supported an organization that has just been identified as paying its leading group "management" more than it gives out to Cancer Research.

So, get off your high horses, support AMERICA, the FLAG, and innocent activities were the causes are genuine and pure.

Some of you will Bash me now and Say "I support activities where the KKK or Communist Party waves an American flag.  Well.... I will tell you to grow up, and don't even bother posting because I would never agree with doing such a thing.  I direct you NOW to my line above " innocent activities were the causes are genuine and pure".  KKK and Nazis are not Pure or Innocent, so don't even try throwing that around as an opposing viewpoint.   
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Майор Хаткевич
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« Reply #21 on: September 08, 2010, 05:36:50 PM »

Neither is Tea Party then. Duh.
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Short Field
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Posts: 2,003

« Reply #22 on: September 08, 2010, 05:39:48 PM »

So, get off your high horses, support AMERICA, the FLAG, and innocent activities were the causes are genuine and pure.
I assume you mean "where the causes are genuine and pure"

Sorry, but the issue is really about the local person who decides that causes are "genuine and pure".  What guideline do they use?  How about supporting all political parties who run candidates in our elections with CAP flag ceremonies?  Who decides?  Do you provide support just to those that you support and ignore the others because you don't like their platforms?  FYI:  Anyone who claims their cause is "genuine and pure" sends shivers up my spine.
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Wilson #2640
GTCommando
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Posts: 255
Unit: GLR-OH-288

Pathfinders Cadet Squadron
« Reply #23 on: September 08, 2010, 05:59:32 PM »

Showing support for a particular political organization and/or candidate is not allowed. I'll have to look up the exact regs. However, I personally don't see any problem with posting the colors.
 What would really get someone in trouble is showing up at one of these events and participate in a CAP uniform. I was talking with one of my Cadets and he said he saw someone at a Tea Party rally wearing BDUs. He asked our Deputy Commander about it, and he said that were the individual identified, he could be dismissed for suggesting that CAP endorsed a political entity. I personally love what the tea party is doing (Please don't turn this into a political thread!), but I still wouldn't show up in a CAP Uniform.  ::)
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"For the partisan, when he is engaged in a dispute, cares nothing about the rights of the question, but is anxious only to convince his hearers." -- Socrates
Patterson
Seasoned Member

Posts: 316

« Reply #24 on: September 08, 2010, 11:22:00 PM »

Last I looked the "Tea Party Patriots" are not a political party in the particular County where this event is taking place.

Everyone needs to calm down.  Posting the colors at an event where the primary focus is the reading of the Constitution is not a political event.  After the reading, singing the National Anthem and reciting the pledge of allegiance, the CAP will retire the colors and depart.  Then and only then will an educational retrospective discussion of the constitution be conducted for those interested.  No money is being raised publicly for a political candidate nor are any giving political speeches.  This is only about reading the constitution, reciting the pledge of allegiance and singing the national anthem.  PERRIOD.]

If you all want to play this game, be prepared to play.  If we begin this "can't support because" junk I will personally go after every single CAP Squadron that posts colors anywhere and at every event.  If a Coca-Cola sign is visible where your SQUADRON is posting the flag at a sporting event, veterans events etc., that means you support Coca-Cola.....

Do you see how ridiculous that is?!?!  That is what you all sound like. 

 
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Майор Хаткевич
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« Reply #25 on: September 09, 2010, 03:18:20 AM »

Go ahead and start your Crusade with that stretch. For non-political groups, Tea Parties sure do participate in a lot of...politics.
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Major Carrales
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« Reply #26 on: September 09, 2010, 03:21:00 AM »

Go ahead and start your Crusade with that stretch. For non-political groups, Tea Parties sure do participate in a lot of...politics.

We get it, you don't like the Tea Parties.
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Майор Хаткевич
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« Reply #27 on: September 09, 2010, 03:33:09 AM »

Go ahead and start your Crusade with that stretch. For non-political groups, Tea Parties sure do participate in a lot of...politics.

We get it, you don't like the Tea Parties.

I don't like Code Pink either. What's your point sir?
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RADIOMAN015
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Posts: 1,990

« Reply #28 on: September 09, 2010, 03:36:27 AM »

We recently had a discussion about this.  I was considering issuing a press release about the availability of our Color Guard Team for functions.  We decided NOT to do this but to look specifically at well established groups/functions that would be non political & devoid of any potential embarassment to the organization.

Some examples would be Rotary Club, Lions Club, American Legion, VFW.  Typical Memorial Day, Veterans Day, 4th of July parades.  Perhaps a dedication of a building (related to aviation).    In the distance past the team also did some on base military support activities for a few of the units on base.

I think we do have to look at the activity and be comfortable that it meets the spirt of the AF regulation regarding the wear of AF type uniforms. 

As the examples above show these are long established organizations.
RM

 
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Майор Хаткевич
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« Reply #29 on: September 09, 2010, 03:39:34 AM »

RM and I agree on something. o_0

He pretty much explained what most CAP units live by for the past 60+ years.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #30 on: September 09, 2010, 03:44:46 AM »

Last I looked the "Tea Party Patriots" are not a political party in the particular County where this event is taking place.

Everyone needs to calm down.  Posting the colors at an event where the primary focus is the reading of the Constitution is not a political event.  After the reading, singing the National Anthem and reciting the pledge of allegiance, the CAP will retire the colors and depart.  Then and only then will an educational retrospective discussion of the constitution be conducted for those interested.  No money is being raised publicly for a political candidate nor are any giving political speeches.  This is only about reading the constitution, reciting the pledge of allegiance and singing the national anthem.  PERRIOD.]

If you all want to play this game, be prepared to play.  If we begin this "can't support because" junk I will personally go after every single CAP Squadron that posts colors anywhere and at every event.  If a Coca-Cola sign is visible where your SQUADRON is posting the flag at a sporting event, veterans events etc., that means you support Coca-Cola.....

Do you see how ridiculous that is?!?!  That is what you all sound like.

Good luck with that, you'll need to start with every time CAP is involved with posting colors at both professional and amateur sporting events, most VFW halls, airshows, and any number of common activities which have corporate sponsors.  The Olympics as an example of a small, obscure event. 

Many activities CAP participates in are "neutral" in that they are simply civic-pride-type situations, etc.

Many others are situations in which one or more of the candidates is allowed colors and other of pomp and circumstance as official
protocol of their office (usually the incumbents, but not always).  Generally the Democrats, Republicans, and even Libertarians and
some independents can fall into that category.

Rarely if ever is CAP participation anything but well-intentioned flag-waving (both literally and figuratively), however on occasion
a commander needs to step in and remind people regarding the rules and common sense.  The fact that you're going to "go-after"
people isn't going to help your stance that this is a neutral activity with no political overtones.

You also can't compartmentalize the pomp and circumstance from some portions which may have an inappropriate political slant -
CAP's involvement is an endorsement of the entire activity, so either it is appropriate or it isn't.
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Major Carrales
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« Reply #31 on: September 09, 2010, 03:47:58 AM »

Go ahead and start your Crusade with that stretch. For non-political groups, Tea Parties sure do participate in a lot of...politics.

We get it, you don't like the Tea Parties.

I don't like Code Pink either. What's your point sir?

My point is you are allowing your POLITCAL dislike of an organization filter into a CAP oriented discussion.  Its a sign of the time, everything is POLAR.  Proving that, at any given time, any neutral endeavor can be polluted by this tripe.

Suppose you are at a VFW affair, post, and then some Veteran makes a statement that is political and then is joined in by his fellows.  So much so, it makes the papers.  What then?  I'll bet that the people here won't even look into it as I have come to suggest of late.  Instead, the trash talking commences in total blindness.

Did any of you contact the Squadron in question and get an answer...or it that an "incredulous streak" I detect from people who like to trash talk on a CAP oriented forum?

Its time to "put up or shut up" on these issues...
« Last Edit: September 09, 2010, 03:52:11 AM by Major Carrales » Logged
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Майор Хаткевич
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« Reply #32 on: September 09, 2010, 03:52:48 AM »

Maybe because it's a political group to the core? Maybe it's because I interpret the regulations as baring political events such as this? I may lean towards the Democrats, but I would refuse an event hosted by the coffee party as well.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #33 on: September 09, 2010, 03:57:33 AM »

In this case we can ignore the host organization altogether and simply address the basis for the discussion, Cleon Skousen's book.

Considering that, while it supports the US Constitution, it is a faith-specific and agenda-driven document which will likely generate, at a minimum, some very "spirited" rhetoric about the current administration, CAP would likely have been best served by simply not participating.

It is entirely possible, and highly likely that the local unit is unaware of the planned discussion, and was simply invited to the Constitution party, which doesn't negate the issue of their involvement being a passive endorsement of the entire event.  If all the organizers wanted was a "discussion", they could have reserved a library meeting room and bought a couple of boxes of donuts. What they appear to have set up is an "apple pie and Chevrolet" rally to foster their agenda, which they have every right to do, but that doesn't mean it is a good idea for us to play.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #34 on: September 09, 2010, 04:01:06 AM »

Suppose you are at a VFW affair, post, and then some Veteran makes a statement that is political and then is joined in by his fellows.  So much so, it makes the papers.  What then?  I'll bet that the people here won't even look into it as I have come to suggest of late.  Instead, the trash talking commences in total blindness.

That would be just as inappropriate, and I would certainly disengage and reconsider future involvement.  The VFW, however, as an organization, is apolitical, and any issues that would pop up would be bad-actor members, not the VFW itself.
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Major Carrales
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« Reply #35 on: September 09, 2010, 04:03:38 AM »

Suppose you are at a VFW affair, post, and then some Veteran makes a statement that is political and then is joined in by his fellows.  So much so, it makes the papers.  What then?  I'll bet that the people here won't even look into it as I have come to suggest of late.  Instead, the trash talking commences in total blindness.

That would be just as inappropriate, and I would certainly disengage and reconsider future involvement.  The VFW, however, as an organization, is apolitical, and any issues that would pop up would be bad-actor members, not the VFW itself.

Can't take it back once it happens.  No fair cheating.  The fact is, everything these days is political.
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"We have been given the power to change CAP, let's keep the momentum going!"

Major Joe Ely "Sparky" Carrales, CAP
Commander
Coastal Bend Cadet Squadron
SWR-TX-454
Major Carrales
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 4,106

« Reply #36 on: September 09, 2010, 04:07:54 AM »

I may lean towards the Democrats

The true reason for "offense" comes out.  Why not just make that clear from the start.  It is an organization representing a message that you find politically abhorant.  I got that message quite clearly from your use of the word "crusade."  Bias is hard to hide.  Why the subterfuge?  Why not be honest?

No need to be offended by that or embarrased in any way, its the times we live in.  I supose the next step is for you to "label" me a "mindless CONSERVATIVE" or "Right Wing Hack" and spout something negative about Glenn Beck or Rush Limbaugh.  Even though there is no proof to that fact other than "I take issue to your point, thus I must be 'label A' and can never again be correct, valid or taken seriously."

Seriously, the POLITICS (and its monkey shines) is making me ill in the real world, and now y'all bring it to CAPTALK.

I suspect that this is not a debate on the nature of posting the colors, but rather, a partisan debate between opposing political camps.  I recommend locking the topic before the DEMS and REPS, CONSERVATIVES and LIBERAL tear this place apart.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2010, 04:14:27 AM by Major Carrales » Logged
"We have been given the power to change CAP, let's keep the momentum going!"

Major Joe Ely "Sparky" Carrales, CAP
Commander
Coastal Bend Cadet Squadron
SWR-TX-454
Eclipse
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Posts: 29,527

« Reply #37 on: September 09, 2010, 04:08:28 AM »

Suppose you are at a VFW affair, post, and then some Veteran makes a statement that is political and then is joined in by his fellows.  So much so, it makes the papers.  What then?  I'll bet that the people here won't even look into it as I have come to suggest of late.  Instead, the trash talking commences in total blindness.

That would be just as inappropriate, and I would certainly disengage and reconsider future involvement.  The VFW, however, as an organization, is apolitical, and any issues that would pop up would be bad-actor members, not the VFW itself.

Can't take it back once it happens.  No fair cheating.  The fact is, everything these days is political.

What do you mean "You can't take it back?"  No one, including CAP, can anticipate some ding-dong individual member of any organization
we are working with, including the military, from saying or doing something dumb (including ourselves).  In those cases we disavow publicly if necessary and take better steps in the future to prevent them.

There's a difference between presenting the colors at a Memorial Day service or a ball game where some goof ball stands up and
chants about some nonsense, and us going in, eyes-wide, to a situation where we know the very subject matter is potentially problematic.  In the former we FIMO, in the latter we stay home.

That's called ORM.
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Майор Хаткевич
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« Reply #38 on: September 09, 2010, 04:12:47 AM »

My comment about the "crusade" was in regards to Patterson promising to "call out" every activity. Let's not take my words out of context lest this turns into a chapter from a Texas history book.
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NCRblues
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« Reply #39 on: September 09, 2010, 04:15:37 AM »

A Texas history book  ::)

Stop drinking the cool aid man....
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In god we trust, all others we run through NCIC
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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  The Lobby  |  Topic: CAP participation at political events
 


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