Questions about AOBD & GBD qualifications

[mynetdude]

I have been getting into ES more lately and have decided I'd like to try to take on the challenge to make it to IC, and I know it will be no picnic for sure .

I have been Mission Scanner qualified in the past, and I am currently UDF qualified and I am no longer MS qualified due to my limited vision/depth perception as I do not want to be a hindrance to lifesaving should I have to try to find an actual person.  I have not pursued the GTM/GTL SQTRs due to my limited walking tolerances which is where I do fine with UDF.

With that in mind, I understand that our SQTRs are configured and designed based on FEMA NIMS requirements so I understand why CAP has certain qualification requirements set forth for AOBD and GBD however...

to be AOBD qualified one must be Mission Observer OR a Mission Pilot; its obvious that I cannot be either due to my limited vision/depth perception and obviously I am not a pilot.

to be GBD qualified one must have been qualified as an MS or MO but need not be current unfortunately GBD requires a GTL qualification as mentioned above I do not have the ability to walk over rough terrain or carry a heavy pack over rough terrain.

Is there any way to get a waiver? It is not that hard to understand what an MO does and how air operations works I have been through the IMU with a fully qualified IC who has walked us from the basic of logging into a mission all the way to creating an air sortie and simulating submitting a report to WIMIRS. 

If not a waiver, is there a "substitute" course I could take that could meet equivalence of being an MO or GTL even though I would not actually perform those qualifications?

I don't see how my disability should/would limit me from being an AOBD or GBD after all this is mission base and using maps, computers, forms, photos, etc not field work that I know of.

[SJFedor]

Go through MO training. Even if you choose to never use it in a real world application, it's good training to have as an incident staff member.

Being an AOBD is a lot more than entering sorties into WMIRS. It's being able to understand the entire picture of what your aircrews are doing, and being able to upchannel results and receive instructions from above and be able to downchannel them to your crews in such a way that they can effectively do their jobs.

I've never heard of such a waiver, and the only one that could really do it is NHQ. You can send NHQ/DO an email if you want, but your answer is probably gonna be something similar to above.

[Short Field]

Ditto for GTL. 

[Eclipse]

to be GBD qualified one must have been qualified as an MS or MO but need not be current unfortunately GBD requires a GTL qualification as mentioned above I do not have the ability to walk over rough terrain or carry a heavy pack over rough terrain.

Neither is required to be a GTL.

With that said, I don't know how excited your unit CC or Wing would be about qualifying someone as an AOBD or GBD who doesn't have pretty decent experience.   Being an effective branch director requires a strong knowledge of the challenges and abilities of your assets, and that experience is hard to get if you don't actually do it.

The branch directors I have seen who have struggled (or crashed) were ones who had obviously been whipped to the position and had no idea what it actually took to execute a sortie.

[mynetdude]

to be GBD qualified one must have been qualified as an MS or MO but need not be current unfortunately GBD requires a GTL qualification as mentioned above I do not have the ability to walk over rough terrain or carry a heavy pack over rough terrain.

Neither is required to be a GTL.

With that said, I don't know how excited your unit CC or Wing would be about qualifying someone as an AOBD or GBD who doesn't have pretty decent experience.   Being an effective branch director requires a strong knowledge of the challenges and abilities of your assets, and that experience is hard to get if you don't actually do it.

The branch directors I have seen who have struggled (or crashed) were ones who had obviously been whipped to the position and had no idea what it actually took to execute a sortie.

I realize its more than just entering sorties, I have been in the air as a MS and saw what an MO does from the back seat; no that does not give me MO experience firsthand.  I talked to my unit CC about doing MO training, I can do the classroom work but the question will be whether I can effectively do the in flight work on the G1000.

I am not interested in taking on qualifications without having full understanding which is to say if I could prove my understanding without having to go MO quals then why not?  I have been in the aircraft before, like I said that does not equate experience as anb MO.

I watched what an AOBD was doing at our last SAREX he had to plan and make sure where the planes would be, what type of search they would be doing, would they be doing ELT searches and would they be doing them high or low, and whether we would be needing a highbird, etc.  All of these things are factored in where the search plane is to be, what altitudes and what kinds of communication needs there would be, terrain and weather conditions and there's plenty more factors such as range from departure point, etc.

[Thunder]

If you are hesitant to train in the prerequisites, please be hesitant to become an IC. You will want nothing less than every minute of prior experience you can get if you end up as IC of a real mission, and so will your team.

Consider other areas you can serve that accomodate your physical limitations. Comm, logistics, planning, finance/admin, PIO.. all are equally important.

[CAP Marine]

Also- point of clarification: there is no requirement for any sort of aircrew qualification to be a Ground Branch Director. You must be a GT member and (at least once have been) a Ground Team Leader. Are you thinking of Operations Section Chief perhaps?

From my experience as a newly minted GBD, you really need every bit of GT experience you can get your hands on. UDF is a fine qualification and, arguably, is the most used on the ground in many areas, but there are many things that a ground team is trained for that UDF is not. You need that GT field experience as a GBD to make sure you are providing the support your team needs on the ground instead of sucking the life out of your teams in their futile efforts to "feed the beast" that can be mission staff. I applaud your quest for continued advancement, you just need to pick one side (ground or air) and train up in order to be an effective leader at the branch level. The challenge is identifying where reasonable accommodations can be made while training up so that you can safely gain that experience.

[lordmonar]

Okay....to clear up all the confustion.

Here is the flow chart.

GES
GTM3            UDF                                        MS
GTL                                                            MO
GBD (does not have to be current GTL)     AOBD (must be current MP or MO)

PSC (must be current GBD and had been at one time an MS) or (must be current AOBD and at one time a GTM# or UDF).
OSC
IC

So the kicker is that you must be MO or GTL to move up and you have to have held both a ground and air rateing to move up to the planning.

[mynetdude]

Okay....to clear up all the confustion.

Here is the flow chart.

GES
GTM3            UDF                                        MS
GTL                                                            MO
GBD (does not have to be current GTL)     AOBD (must be current MP or MO)

PSC (must be current GBD and had been at one time an MS) or (must be current AOBD and at one time a GTM# or UDF).
OSC
IC

So the kicker is that you must be MO or GTL to move up and you have to have held both a ground and air rateing to move up to the planning.

I have the UDF qual, I WAS an MS at one time so I know I can apply that towards the PSC IF I ever get up there.

MO would be considerably easier and less hazardous to me as a GTL.  I have operated CAP radios on the ground so not a problem there (except the narrowband really messed with audio quality) my only challenge will be being able to read the new G1000 panel reasonably well in flight even with sunglasses on so unless the panel can display 12-14pt font which it doesn't I will have a hard time doing duties as an MO

I can recertify my MS to go to MO but I am skeptical about doing MO work, I can't read my odometer while driving and I can sometimes read the numbers on my speedometer and if the lighting conditions are poor then I cannot read it at all so I rely on visualizing where my speedometer needle is pointing and have its position memorized so I don't have to guess what speed I am going this is not the same in the airplane TBH.

Don't get me wrong I can see where I am going, I don't read most street signs, just because I can't read them doesn't mean I can't drive I just have to improvise and yes I can do it safely if I couldn't I would gladly quit.

[lordmonar]

I would go through your local ES guy and see what he thinks.

If you have the judgment and maturity and leadership ability to be a good IC then I see no reason to hold you back.  Fill in your blocks get the experience you need and then spend your time at mission base in AOBD, PSC and OSC getting really good at that side.

If you have the ability to lead and manage...then all you need it is the basic experience to "understand" what your people are doing out in the field.

[tinker]

I watched what an AOBD was doing at our last SAREX ...

Good start.  I suggest that you table the qualifications questions and just volunteer to work mission base every chance you get.  When I am running air branch, I need a minimum of one helper and ideally two.  I don't care what qualifications or experience they have; the more they have, the more I can give them to do.  I am sure the ground branch, planning, etc. guys feel the same way.  The need for help is especially critical during the first day or two of an actual mission, as there is usually tons to do and few people to do it.

After you swim in the pool a few times, especially on actual missions, you'll have a much better idea of where you want to go with qualifications and what you need to know to be effective.