How is it we have cadets under 12?

[Eclipse]

The KB just posted an article which features April 2010 stats on cadet demographics.

Apparently our ranks included 161 cadets under 12 years old, including 2 that were 10.

How is this possible consider the "hard start age" is 12, and has been for several years?

Here's the full report:  http://www.capmembers.com/file.cfm/media/blogs/documents/Stats_C091196AC47C8.pdf

My assumption is that this is somehow related to the SEP.

[tsrup]

I believe it has to do with the School Enrichment Program.  Trying to pull up the regs now..


Edit:
I think you are correct Eclipse

[lordmonar]

Yep....the SEP (now called ACE IIRC) only has a grade limit (5th IIRC).

So you will have ton of cadets who are 11 and a small handful who are only 10.

[tsrup]

Ok here it is,
There is the brief paragraph in 52-16 saying that there is a school program. 
However the most descriptive of SEP (outside of syllabus info) would be in the DDR regs
http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/R051_001.pdf

Looks like 6th grade is the only requirement.

[tsrup]

Yep....the SEP (now called ACE IIRC) only has a grade limit (5th IIRC).

So you will have ton of cadets who are 11 and a small handful who are only 10.

From what I read, the only mention of  5th grade is simply an opportunity for SEP (or ACE) cadets to mentor 5th graders (Adopt-A-School program) as they transition to 6th.  Seems like 6th is the bottom line for actual membership.  This is clarified under CAPR 51-1

[Eclipse]

So are we basically back to the "6th or 12" rule? 

How long before "gifted" home schoolers start knocking on the doors again and we've got more 13 year old Spaatz cadets.

Having dealt with a few "gifted" 10 year olds in CAP, I personally believe it should be 12 with no exceptions.  Academic equivalence is only a small part of being a successful cadet.  The difference in maturity between 10 & 12, especially for cadets not in a regular school environment
is pretty significant.

[tsrup]

So are we basically back to the "6th or 12" rule? 

How long before "gifted" home schoolers start knocking on the doors again and we've got more 13 year old Spaatz cadets.

Having dealt with a few "gifted" 10 year olds in CAP, I personally believe it should be 12 with no exceptions.  Academic equivalence is only a small part of being a successful cadet.  The difference in maturity between 10 & 12, especially for cadets not in a regular school environment
is pretty significant.

Not quite.  In order for 6th grade to be the cutoff, you have to be enrolled in the SEP, which is through the school (think of it as JROTC).  It does not apply to home schoolers. 

[Eclipse]

It doesn't apply today...

I have to assume these cadets, few that they may be, are allowed to participate in all outside activities, including encampments in these wings.  I'd not be excited about 10 year olds staying overnight during the activity I run.

[dogboy]

So are we basically back to the "6th or 12" rule? 

How long before "gifted" home schoolers start knocking on the doors again and we've got more 13 year old Spaatz cadets.

Having dealt with a few "gifted" 10 year olds in CAP, I personally believe it should be 12 with no exceptions.  Academic equivalence is oinvolv

I've said this before: it's disgusting and un-American to enroll young children in a paramilitary program AND it drives out older Cadets. No normal 18 year old wants to be involved in a program that has 12 year old members.

[tsrup]

It doesn't apply today...

I have to assume these cadets, few that they may be, are allowed to participate in all outside activities, including encampments in these wings.  I'd not be excited about 10 year olds staying overnight during the activity I run.

I'm not excited about 12 year olds either, but it's part of the program and I do what I'm told.  A cadet is a cadet.  I see rank not age.  And that's what you have to do. 

10 year old not mature enough for encampment?  Then he/she is not mature enough for Curry, and that is a requirement.  Problem solved.

[lordmonar]

It doesn't apply today...

I have to assume these cadets, few that they may be, are allowed to participate in all outside activities, including encampments in these wings.  I'd not be excited about 10 year olds staying overnight during the activity I run.

ILWG has one of the largest SEP programs in the country IIRC....you need to be ready for it because it may be comming your way.

[Eclipse]

ILWG does not participate in the SEP, you are thinking about INWG, which currently has the largest unit.

[Eclipse]

10 year old not mature enough for encampment?  Then he/she is not mature enough for Curry, and that is a requirement.  Problem solved.

My 6 and 8 year old kids could likely master the basic facing movements, uniform wear and other requirements for Curry, especially with the benevolent encouragement of their friends in a home squadron.  PT would be a non-issue as kids that age never walk anywhere.

Being able to stay away from home for up to a week, knowing very few people and not having their home unit friends around would be a different story. between 10 & 12 there are big developmental changes, especially in the "opinion and independence gene".

[lordmonar]

So you get to add a new skill.....one where you teach younger cadets about sleep overs.

Point is...they are here....they cannot be excluded so you will have to deal with it.

[Eclipse]

Thankfully, at least for today, I can erect a "not my problem field" around this.

[tsrup]

10 year old not mature enough for encampment?  Then he/she is not mature enough for Curry, and that is a requirement.  Problem solved.

My 6 and 8 year old kids could likely master the basic facing movements, uniform wear and other requirements for Curry, especially with the benevolent encouragement of their friends in a home squadron.  PT would be a non-issue as kids that age never walk anywhere.

Being able to stay away from home for up to a week, knowing very few people and not having their home unit friends around would be a different story. between 10 & 12 there are big developmental changes, especially in the "opinion and independence gene".

There are many developmental things that happen for a person between the times they are born and the time they are an "adult".  Any one of these could be used as a "medical" reason why they should not be in Cadet Programs.  The fact of the matter is that this is the cutoff we have to deal with. 

As for the other part, even if a cadet can get curry, It doesn't mean that you have to sign the encampment application.  By all means tell them why of course.  But if you have a cadet that you don't think is mature enough for encampment, then don't send them.  This applies ages 12 through 21. 

Of course all of this is purely and academic exercise unless someone from one of these SEP programs wants to chime in on their experiences.

[RADIOMAN015]

10 year old not mature enough for encampment?  Then he/she is not mature enough for Curry, and that is a requirement.  Problem solved.

My 6 and 8 year old kids could likely master the basic facing movements, uniform wear and other requirements for Curry, especially with the benevolent encouragement of their friends in a home squadron.  PT would be a non-issue as kids that age never walk anywhere.

Being able to stay away from home for up to a week, knowing very few people and not having their home unit friends around would be a different story. between 10 & 12 there are big developmental changes, especially in the "opinion and independence gene".

There are many developmental things that happen for a person between the times they are born and the time they are an "adult".  Any one of these could be used as a "medical" reason why they should not be in Cadet Programs.  The fact of the matter is that this is the cutoff we have to deal with. 

As for the other part, even if a cadet can get curry, It doesn't mean that you have to sign the encampment application.  By all means tell them why of course.  But if you have a cadet that you don't think is mature enough for encampment, then don't send them.  This applies ages 12 through 21. 

Interestingly the "Young Marines Program" allows kids at age 8 to join the program (and remain in program until graduation from high school/age 18).  Their web pages does show youngester at summer camp.  I would guess that they probably know a bit more about youth development than many cap'ers.
ANY program and most activities can become age specific with appropriate planning.
RM

   

[Eclipse]

I would guess that they probably know a bit more about youth development than many cap'ers.

Why would you assume that?

The YM's are a much smaller organization, and at least in my AOR, not very coherent.

[tsrup]

I would guess that they probably know a bit more about youth development than many cap'ers.

Why would you assume that?

The YM's are a much smaller organization, and at least in my AOR, not very coherent.

I too wish to be enlightened.

[Major Carrales]

The answer can be found in this fellow's loathing of CAP.  Criticism is fine...but those that can find no "good" or "benefit" in what CAP does are more a problem than the problems they point out.