Ground Team:Getting Started

[Frederick FTW]

I'm trying to get a bunch of cadets in our squadron involved in ground team. In order to make it as easy as possible to get GES taken care of, I'm creating a Prerequisite Sheet (complete with step by step instructions) to get the cadets GES qualified ASAP.
I'd like to know if I'm missing any Prerequisites other than what's on this list: This is for cadets, btw.

Completed First Achievement (curry)
Certification of IS-100, IS-700, CAPT 116, CAPT 117
OPSEC Training
Obtained 101 Card
?
?
?

[Spaceman3750]

All you have to do for GES qualification is the CAPT116 and IS-100. At least as far as I'm aware. Do you still have to do a CAPF100 to get a CAPF101 or does eServices do it automatically now? It's been so long I can't remember .

[Frederick FTW]

eServices does it automatically now.

[Pylon]

Check out the SQTR's.  Pre-requisites are built right in.

[ßτε]

All that is needed for GES for cadets is Achievement 1 (Curry) and CAPT 116.

Note that IS100 is no longer needed for GES, but is still required for any other qualifications.

[lordmonar]

I'm trying to get a bunch of cadets in our squadron involved in ground team. In order to make it as easy as possible to get GES taken care of, I'm creating a Prerequisite Sheet (complete with step by step instructions) to get the cadets GES qualified ASAP.
I'd like to know if I'm missing any Prerequisites other than what's on this list: This is for cadets, btw.

Completed First Achievement (curry)
Certification of IS-100, IS-700, CAPT 116, CAPT 117
OPSEC Training
Obtained 101 Card
?
?
?

If GES is your target...all you need is Curry, OPSEC (which everyone should have anyways) and CAPT 116.

If GTM3 is your target then do the following.

OPSEC
Curry/Level I
CAPT 116
ICS 100
ICS 700
CAPT 117 (all three parts)
First Aid Class

Get those knocked out then you can focus on GTM 3 Tasks.

Build a training program that will lead them all the way up to their GTM1...yes it takes longer but you can knock out all your map and compass tasks at one time instead of hitting them up piecemeal as you move through he SQTRs.

Once you got your basic training done...don't stop.  Keep having regular training sessions/exercises just to keep the skills current.....a simple pace count exercise and 4-5 point compass course you run at a meeting for 20 minutes will help keep those orienteering skills sharp.

Good luck.

[RiverAux]

Build a training program that will lead them all the way up to their GTM1...yes it takes longer but you can knock out all your map and compass tasks at one time instead of hitting them up piecemeal as you move through he SQTRs.

Very good advice.  Unfortunately, our GT training system is not set up in a very effective manner.  In this case, some of the map/compass stuff is spread out over several different quals when it would be much more effective to do it all at once.  Same goes for a lot of stuff throughout GT training.  Needs a total overhaul in the sequencing. 

[lordmonar]

Build a training program that will lead them all the way up to their GTM1...yes it takes longer but you can knock out all your map and compass tasks at one time instead of hitting them up piecemeal as you move through he SQTRs.

Very good advice.  Unfortunately, our GT training system is not set up in a very effective manner.  In this case, some of the map/compass stuff is spread out over several different quals when it would be much more effective to do it all at once.  Same goes for a lot of stuff throughout GT training.  Needs a total overhaul in the sequencing.

Needs to overhauled into just two rateings.

Ground Team Member (the Current GTM1 minus all the leadership stuff)
Ground Team Leader

[SarDragon]

That's where we were 10 years ago. The progressive quals - GTM3->GTM2->GTM1 - makes it easier to get qual'd enough to get out into the field, without having to learn advanced skills that might not ever get used. Realistically, how many ground teams ever spend 72 hrs in the field on A1 missions?

[Eclipse]

Last I checked you cannot get credit for advanced tasks until the Fam / Prep is done for a respective qual, so working ahead on GT2/1 won't do you much good (likewise no mission credit unless Fam / Prep is complete waling in the door).

Its not a race, going into the woods more than once is part of the point in keeping your skills fresh, and fun for everyone.

[lordmonar]

Last I checked you cannot get credit for advanced tasks until the Fam / Prep is done for a respective qual, so working ahead on GT2/1 won't do you much good (likewise no mission credit unless Fam / Prep is complete waling in the door).

Its not a race, going into the woods more than once is part of the point in keeping your skills fresh, and fun for everyone.

Not by the book....but let's use a little common sense.  NESA has no problems with taking a GTM3 and knocking out GTM2, GTM1 and UDF at the same time you are in the GTL course.

E-service does not care if you have commander's approval before it will update tasks as completed.

You will of course have to have ther right number of missions before you can be "signed off" on a particlar rating....I am not advocating only doing two missions and applying it to all three/four ratings.

But if you hold a map and compass course that covers all the tasks in GTM 3,2, and one, go ahead and sign them off.

[Eclipse]

But if you hold a map and compass course that covers all the tasks in GTM 3,2, and one, go ahead and sign them off.

I'm of that school as well - but the recent change was pretty specific.  At a minimum check with your wing ESO, who is
likely the final arbiter of this issue.

[JC004]

Last I checked you cannot get credit for advanced tasks until the Fam / Prep is done for a respective qual, so working ahead on GT2/1 won't do you much good (likewise no mission credit unless Fam / Prep is complete waling in the door).

Its not a race, going into the woods more than once is part of the point in keeping your skills fresh, and fun for everyone.

Not by the book....but let's use a little common sense.  NESA has no problems with taking a GTM3 and knocking out GTM2, GTM1 and UDF at the same time you are in the GTL course.

E-service does not care if you have commander's approval before it will update tasks as completed.

You will of course have to have ther right number of missions before you can be "signed off" on a particlar rating....I am not advocating only doing two missions and applying it to all three/four ratings.

But if you hold a map and compass course that covers all the tasks in GTM 3,2, and one, go ahead and sign them off.

I don't see any reason you shouldn't be able to complete some advanced tasks first.  If you knew how to do map work before you bought the last of your gear and could get signed off for the respective gear task, what does it matter? 

Some months before I left PAWG HQ, a bunch of members had e-mailed me requesting information on some wing policy that was supposedly being enforced which said that if you had advanced tasks with dates before Fam & Prep, your SQTR got rejected by Wing.  I never actually found out if that was true and I never saw a written policy (probably because PAWG doesn't believe in written policies).  More unnecessary burdens on volunteers if it was/is true.

[Short Field]

What happens when the advanced task was a task covered in another achievement that you were approved to train in and it automatically gets updated in the achievement you have not been approved to train in?  For example, Mission Safety Officer advanced training includes BCUT, task L-0001 (Basic Comm Procedures), and task P-0101 (Demonstrate the ability to keep a log).  Would you have re-accomplish these tasks if you were already a Mission Radio Operator?

[lordmonar]

What happens when the advanced task was a task covered in another achievement that you were approved to train in and it automatically gets updated in the achievement you have not been approved to train in?  For example, Mission Safety Officer advanced training includes BCUT, task L-0001 (Basic Comm Procedures), and task P-0101 (Demonstrate the ability to keep a log).  Would you have re-accomplish these tasks if you were already a Mission Radio Operator?

+1

[SarDragon]

As I see it, we have two distinct, but related issues here.

The first is the crossover of tasks from one SQTR to another. These are always valid. You do it once, and it counts everywhere else.

The second is Trainee status. This requires commander approval. This allows training in all the tasks unique to a specific SQTR.

[JoeTomasone]

Actually, we have a third issue: Training for and signing off on tasks for a specialty that you are not eligible to sign off for by virtue of not having completed the prerequisites -- i.e. the lower required qualification.

Look, if you don't like the way a reg is written, pass your suggestions up the chain...  But for one, I am getting a little tired of people who are breaking regs because it is expedient and justifying it because it "makes sense".   Sure, it makes sense -- BUT THAT DOES NOT MAKE IT RIGHT.   

[HGjunkie]

Dont forget, the latest requirements require some form of Radio Operators class, so that is a must.
I just need an ROA and my 700 to be qualified.

[SarDragon]

Dont forget, the latest requirements require some form of Radio Operators class, so that is a must.
I just need an ROA and my 700 to be qualified.

A radio class has been required for most ES specialties since the new documentation system was implemented (somewhere around '04).

[Short Field]

Actually, we have a third issue: Training for and signing off on tasks for a specialty that you are not eligible to sign off for by virtue of not having completed the prerequisites -- i.e. the lower required qualification.

I agree with you.