I.G. College

[Eclipse]

what scares me is that he OP was at the IG school.  You know the people who interpret compliance with our regulations?

IG's do not interpret anything.  The fact-find and report.

Any interpretation is done by the commander who directed the investigation.

[Eclipse]

   I believe that the standard that CAP has now is completely too lax, we do not train to a professional standard; we seem to have over the years lowered the standard to a volunteer standard. We seem to over the years have drifted away from the Air Force in terms of culture, our culture is their culture, and we all came from the same place.

Last I checked were were not professionals, nor are we in the Air Force.

As JC004 comments we are volunteers, providing incredibly valuable service to our country, on our own nickel (including all uniforms and most equipment), with inconsistent training, little top-down guidance, and in a realm where nearly all of our peers are paid professionals
doing their full time jobs.

Make mental notes for when you are in a position of authority and get over it...

[JC004]

...
As JC004 comments we are volunteers, providing incredibly valuable service to our country, on our own nickel
...

I'd like to know how you only got away with spending a nickel.  My coins were MUCH bigger.

I'm still confused by this vague standard.  I certainly don't agree with across the board physical fitness tests.  Some have proposed it for GTMs and such.  That's one thing, but why does the wing or region Director of Admin need to be able to run a mile in a certain period of time?  People who can't serve in the military are part of our heritage.  A fundamental part.

Some of the greatest mentors I had as a cadet or greatest people I've worked with since have been those who wouldn't be eligible for military service (including some who were PRIOR military.  My own grandfather, for instance.  He was discharged from the Marines after being wounded in combat but later was in CAP). 

Other than not dying, I don't know what else is in this standard.

[EMT-83]

[snip] Last I checked were were not professionals, nor are we in the Air Force.

Being a professional has nothing to do with a paycheck. It has everything to do with your actions and attitude.

[SarDragon]

YESSSSSS!

[Eclipse]

[snip] Last I checked were were not professionals, nor are we in the Air Force.

Being a professional has nothing to do with a paycheck. It has everything to do with your actions and attitude.

I agree with the sentiment, but I don't believe that is how the poster intended the statement.

Volunteers who cannot devote their full attention and have limited resources will rarely be as good as professionals on a consistent basis, so to compare yourself to that standard means very little.  Active forces can takes a pile of patches and a set of new uniforms to the base tailor and come back the next day to a perfect uniform, having offered little guidance, while most members have to get out the needle or deal with the nice lady on the corner who has never seen a BDU jacket before.

Likewise for service dress - if you're active you can just glance around the room and see if you look different than the other guys - but in CAP, the other guys could all be dressed different and you're all still correct (or wrong).

Need a haircut, a nametag, or a new shirt?  Grab all of those at the PX/BX/NEX at lunch.  Most CAP members have to navigate 30 minutes at the VC just to get on base at all, or figure out the maze that is AAFES, MCSS, eBay or their local surplus store - all on their own time, while racing to a meeting or on the way down to NESA (at the start of the two weeks of their vacation they took).

Most CAP activities are planned and executed after the pros have gone home and settled into the groove on their couch - their day is done when ours starts and if they come and play with us they are getting paid, and sometimes overtime or comp.

Show me a consistent set of regs with no inter-textual conflicts, consistent baseline training, meaningful top-down mission and direction, and consistent, meaningful ramifications when people stumble and then you can start giving people more than passing grief about professional standards, especially when it comes to uniforms.

Raising the standards without also raising the level of support and guidance will simply result in an accelerated shrinkage of the membership, with the last few guys looking tight and right as they sit alone, drowning in all the paperwork and other tasks that used to be done by the people who "didn't get it".  Good luck finding time to do what you joined for.

I've been asked on more than one occasion for assistance with service dress by people currently in the military.  Why?  Because this stuff isn't intuitive for anyone, especially if you don't use it every day.

I do what I can to raise the bar, and negligence or insubordination is never acceptable, but on some level it simply is what it is.

[JC004]

...
Raising the standards without also raising the level of support and guidance will simply result in an accelerated shrinkage of the membership, with the last few guys looking tight and right as they sit alone, drowning in all the paperwork and other tasks that used to be done by the people who "didn't get it".  Good luck finding time to do what you joined for.
...

DING DING DING.  As I said last night(?).  This is precisely what they do half the time.  If they went off adding tougher training standards for PD and even the CP without adding support for that as well, we'd die in a horrible fire.

[DrJbdm]

My friends, I believe that in my haste to post something, I did not get my point across correctly. I sincerely apologize for offending anyone with my poorly written post. That is my fault. I should really take the time to think thru what I am trying to say before saying anything. I do not ever intend to insult the organization or any of the members who give a large part of themselves.

  First, I agree completely that as non-paid professionals that we strive to perform the most professional jobs that we can. I also agree completely that if we took the time to follow the regulations that are in place that we would probably improve a lot of the problems that some of us here in captalk complain about.

  Please, understand that I come from an area in which the term volunteer is considered a negative and that it isn't looked upon as a non-paid professional, the term isn't billed as such. So in my own bias I have miss-spoken and offended some people so I owe them an apology.

  Lastly, this is a public forum, we never know who reads these things and I am just as guilty as others in posting things that while being my own opinion; may incorrectly come across as being negative about the organization or its members; I never want that to be the case. That is not in keeping with our core values as CAP members. Everything I have posted is simply one person's opinion nothing more, but still we should all be a little more careful in what we may say. So please accept my apology for airing personal thoughts and opinions that are best probably best kept to myself and for writing a badly worded post. I accept the blame for that.

[ZigZag911]

What is a real shocker to me are the blatant uniform violations, even by some of the Wing and Region Commanders over here. We had a Wing Commander wearing the Air Force uniform with the blue CAP nameplate, we have a handicapped Lt. Col who weighs over 300 pounds wearing the Air Force uniform but no flight cap, and he is so big that he had to have extra material on his pants to make them fit. It's awful.

   The white and grays stand out among everyone on an Air Force base, they look awful to begin with and then you see Airmen and NCO's giving the folks in the white and grays weird looks. It looks off, it doesn't look right. No one likes something that is different than the norm. It's how we are wired.

You --rightly --criticize those who violate uniform regs.

However, you also criticize those who, not meeting AF standards, wear white/gray combination.

Can't have it both ways....not reasonable.

[TCMajor]

DrJbdm,

You must be hanging out in New England where Volunteer Fire Fighter is a 4-letter word the the full time union guys.     Our town here in NH puts Eclipse's case to the point.  We have a town of about 20K people with some heavy industry.  Our fire department is volunteer.  They receive all the same training as full timers (State Law).  Promotions are done by written exam and boards.  Stringent physical fitness standards are applied (of course its a fire department).  Uniform regulations are strict and enforced.  We roll apparatus at very close to the same response times as neighboring full time departments.  People are knocking the doors down trying to join.  Why does it work?  While the environment is difficult, the treatment is perceived as fair, and support in equipment and resources are there without question(Eclipse's point).  The bottom line is standards can be tough for a volunteer organization and you can still have high levels of recruitment.  However, you have to ask the question whatever you put into place has to be "perceived" as fair and reasonable.  Does a radio operator need to run a mile in 8-10 minutes?  Probably not, but it would be helpful if a GT member could, maybe even with a load on their back.  Well that is my 2-cents.  Bottom line:  don't accept a lower standard at anything, just because you are volunteer.  This monkey rests square on the commander's back.