Uniform Options

[DrJbdm]

 Whats with this push for being more different, why are we trying to push our image even further from the Air Force then what the Air Force already asks for? The guide line is low light / at a distance. Which means only that Air Force members can see that we are CAP members / Officers at normal low light conditions such as twilight and in a normal lit room. At a distance refers to a distance of around 50 feet.

  There is no good reason in the world to do things to make us stand out more. The old blue shoulder marks and blue 3 line nametag met the AF standard, just as the current grey marks do the same. Why be any different?

  Radioman, why don't you simply ask if we can wear big signs on the front and back of our uniforms saying "I AM NOT MILITARY, DONT BE AFRAID". Your ideas are misguided, I'm just not sure CAP is the right organization for you. CAP IS a military organization, we are a part of the USAF!

[RADIOMAN015]

Whats with this push for being more different, why are we trying to push our image even further from the Air Force then what the Air Force already asks for? The guide line is low light / at a distance. Which means only that Air Force members can see that we are CAP members / Officers at normal low light conditions such as twilight and in a normal lit room. At a distance refers to a distance of around 50 feet.

  There is no good reason in the world to do things to make us stand out more. The old blue shoulder marks and blue 3 line nametag met the AF standard, just as the current grey marks do the same. Why be any different?

  Radioman, why don't you simply ask if we can wear big signs on the front and back of our uniforms saying "I AM NOT MILITARY, DONT BE AFRAID".   CAP IS a military organization, we are a part of the USAF!

My guess is there was some "negative" input from the real Air Force regarding CAP senior members wear of AF type uniforms covering a variety of circumstances over a number of years.  (Likely from the Senor NCO corps).

The grey name tag & grey rank epaulettes can be a bit difficult to distinguish in low light conditions.  The BDU (and possibly the ACU) in my opinion, is significantly more difficult to differentiate with the blue background.    Going to a Red background on name tags, tapes, rank, etc, CLEARLY indicates that it is not a military member wearing the AF style uniform.

Please remember that the original CAP emblem is red, white, & blue; so it stands to reason that those colors should be part of our uniform.  Not sure where the grey ever came from.  As you all know cadet rank insignias have red/white/blue displayed.  Shouldn't our goal be for consistency in colors in our uniforms for both cadets & seniors?   

It's important for CAP in the community to have better "differentiation" so that we do stand out as "CAP, USAF Auxiliary", and not mistaken by the very naive public as being military.  We are not.    Also if we can differentiate a bit more, perhaps the USAF would considering relaxing the beard, weight, & hair standards for CAP to wear AF type "logistically supplied/available" uniforms.   (However, blue BDU's/flight suits for everyone, no exceptions).   

Surely, there will always be heated debate on the uniform issues.  I respect all members no matter what uniform they choose to wear :angel:
RM

[Persona non grata]

If you dont like CAP wearing AF uniforms, why dont you anti-AF folks just leave CAP and let the rest of us just carrying on and preform the mission.  Go read the history of CAP if you dont like the military affiliation....... :clap:  So I suggest you stand aside .

[vmstan]

Somebody previously mentioned bringing the wing patch back.  I think that's a great idea.  It definitely identifies you as not being Air Force because it's like a neon sign on your shoulder saying "I'm not Air Force".   Besides, the Air Force doesn't use the wing patch or numbered air force shoulder patches anymore.  I miss seeing those things, ie, the old 5th Air Force patch.

Another thing it does is identify where you're from when attending these national activities and helps to boost the espirit-de-corps.

You're being sarcastic, right?

[vmstan]

Radioman, why don't you simply ask if we can wear big signs on the front and back of our uniforms saying "I AM NOT MILITARY, DONT BE AFRAID". Your ideas are misguided, I'm just not sure CAP is the right organization for you. CAP IS a military organization, we are a part of the USAF!

I agree.

Something tells me the people we're out there trying to save don't give a rats behind if they think we're military, police, CAP, Boy Scouts, or random lucky civilians when we save them. As long as the real military can identify us, and not confuse their chain of command, the uniform issue isn't an issue. If USAF was that concerned with our style of uniform, they would change it. Since they have not, sitting around here with tin foil hats on coming up with conspiracy theories about what the USAF enlisted or officer corps think about our uniforms is silly and a waste of time. Likewise, trying to appeal to the lowest common denominator in terms of what the average civilian will think we are is silly and a waste of time. Putting wing patches back on the service dress would make us look more like the Army, and ruin the appearance of the uniform, just as it did when it was authorized and later removed. In reality, someone out there will confuse us for something else no matter what we wear. Why not let them confuse us for members of the greatest air power on the planet?

[Grumpy]

Somebody previously mentioned bringing the wing patch back.  I think that's a great idea.  It definitely identifies you as not being Air Force because it's like a neon sign on your shoulder saying "I'm not Air Force".   Besides, the Air Force doesn't use the wing patch or numbered air force shoulder patches anymore.  I miss seeing those things, ie, the old 5th Air Force patch.

Another thing it does is identify where you're from when attending these national activities and helps to boost the espirit-de-corps.

You're being sarcastic, right?

Actually, I meant the wing patch as a simple compromise instead of making all those extreme changes.  As far as identifying the wings, I was serious.  I miss them and, yes, I liked the Major Command patches on the left shoulder.  My big brother was 5th Air Force and that shooting star style number was cool.  Kind of nostalgic, if you know what I mean. 

[vmstan]

I guess it identifies to other Air Force people that we're not Air Force, but to the general public it's far from a neon sign. The gray slides already go a long way to highlight us from big brother AF.

As I said though, aside from looking like Army uniforms, CAP already experimented with wing patches on service dress and it was removed.

[Hawk200]

If you dont like CAP wearing AF uniforms, why dont you anti-AF folks just leave CAP and let the rest of us just carrying on and preform the mission.  Go read the history of CAP if you dont like the military affiliation....... :clap:  So I suggest you stand aside .

Too bad there isn't a "thumbs up" Smiley.

[arajca]

As far as the general public is concerned, here are a few simple uniform equations:

camo = soldier

Light blue over dark blue = navy (dungarees)

dark blue over dark blue = cop

green union flight suit = air force

khaki over blue = marine

CAP does not have the sheer numbers to change these.

[a2capt]

If you dont like CAP wearing AF uniforms, why dont you anti-AF folks just leave CAP and let the rest of us just carrying on and preform the mission.  Go read the history of CAP if you dont like the military affiliation....... :clap:  So I suggest you stand aside .

Too bad there isn't a "thumbs up" Smiley.

[Grumpy]

I guess it identifies to other Air Force people that we're not Air Force, but to the general public it's far from a neon sign. The gray slides already go a long way to highlight us from big brother AF.

As I said though, aside from looking like Army uniforms, CAP already experimented with wing patches on service dress and it was removed.

I just thought the wing patch might solve a problem for those who want the distinction between us and our parent organization (who hasn't been here as long as we have).  I don't care if it reminds us of the Army.  It's our heritage.  My boy wears a uniform that has some type of buzzard on the shoulder.  There must be 101 of them 'cause that number is there too.  It doesn't bother him.   

Anyway, when I first joined CAP in 1959 we must have been experimenting with the patch then because I wore it as a cadet.  I believe the patch was removed by the dude that came up with the TPU outfit 'cause he wanted to look more like Ma Air Force.

I say just go with the flow because this question will never get solved.  Too many opinions.  I've heard good ones on both sides.[/u]

[manfredvonrichthofen]

The great thing about wing patches, is they tell people what state they are from, no Army unit patch has a state name or shape to it, the closest thing is the PA Nat. Guard Keystone. But that one shouldn't make it a problem, not that it is a problem looking like the keystone, there is enough of a difference. Not to mention it just looks good anyways. I'm not an expert about other wing patches, I'm not sure if the keystone CAP patch is just a ground team patch thing for the PPT slides I have seen or not. If it isn't the PA wing patch then I'm wrong. Still there should be enough info on the patches to show the difference betewwn us and the Army.

[BillB]

Grumpy

The Wing patchs replaced the CAP Emblem in 1947. It was removed on the suggestion of big blue not Tony Pin......Oh I lmost typed it.

[DrJbdm]

Grumpy

The Wing patchs replaced the CAP Emblem in 1947. It was removed on the suggestion of big blue not Tony Pin......Oh I lmost typed it.

Somebody get a rope!!

[Hawk200]

The great thing about wing patches, is they tell people what state they are from, no Army unit patch has a state name or shape to it, the closest thing is the PA Nat. Guard Keystone.

There's one state that I know of. Many aren't too difficult, if you have any familiarity with state flags. The South Carolina with the Palmetto, Alaska with a dipper, Colorado with the same "C" as their flag. Most Army patches don't have script as part of the basic SSI. But, it's not really relevant.

But that one shouldn't make it a problem, not that it is a problem looking like the keystone, there is enough of a difference. Not to mention it just looks good anyways. I'm not an expert about other wing patches, I'm not sure if the keystone CAP patch is just a ground team patch thing for the PPT slides I have seen or not. If it isn't the PA wing patch then I'm wrong. Still there should be enough info on the patches to show the difference betewwn us and the Army.

One thing that you know who did that I think was right was to remove them. The justification of "not having 52 separate CAP's" was good.

Second, nothing belongs on the arms of CAP uniforms but stripes for those who have them. It's unnecessary. Just eliminate extras that lack any real reason for them, like collar cutouts for NCOs. Stick to patches that serve a purpose, such as identifying the individual's qualifications.

[RiverAux]

It was good to get them off the blue shirts (way too big a pain), bad idea to take them off the BDUs/BBDUs

[Grumpy]

Grumpy

The Wing patches replaced the CAP Emblem in 1947. It was removed on the suggestion of big blue not Tony Pin......Oh I almost typed it.

I wasn't sure who suggested it.  It was just around that time and I drew a conclusion (Oops).  Like I say, I can more or less go with the flow.  Although if it was a choice between berry boards and the gray, I prefer the gray.  They look nicer with the blue. 

[Hawk200]

It was good to get them off the blue shirts (way too big a pain), bad idea to take them off the BDUs/BBDUs

Why? It's not like they were really needed. A majority of the people that you work with are in the same wing. Do you really need a wing patch? I was happy to see those things go.

[RiverAux]

Because it is a fine tradition that there was no reason to drop. 

[manfredvonrichthofen]

I think it was a wonderful tradition that could really generate some questions. If someone were to ask about your other patches those are all simple questions, but if you were to really learn a few small things about your wing history you could really generate a possible interest if not a possible recruit by your answer.