Uniform Options

[High Speed Low Drag]

Having multiple uniforms was not a problem when I was a cadet, why is it now? Is it just something for people to argue  about? The problem with the USAF uniform is that some people don't wear it properly. Other than that there should not be a problem. Why can't people just wear them according to the regs? Problem solved, stop wanting people to spend more money on uniforms. The most effective thing we can do with the uniforms is to leave them the way they are.

That is a relatively small issue.

The big problem is the USAF won't allow all senior members to wear their unifrom, like they did back WIWAC.  If they did, we wouldn't have all of the 3000 discussions.  But the USAF states we have to meet H/W requirements to wear AF-style uniforms because they don't want us non-photgenic bodies to be seen in an AF-style.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

That blue grey black uniform is just [Filter Subversion]!!!

Watch the language, there are cadets present - MIKE

[vmstan]

That blue grey black uniform is just [Filter Subversion]!!!

Watch the language, there are cadets present - MIKE

I'm assuming you're stating your disapproval, of which I agree.

[Short Field]

It actually looks fairly good and satisfies all the requirements we are looking for in a uniform that everyone can wear.  However, it does fail because it doesn't look like a RM uniform.  But that wasn't why I joined CAP anyway.

[DrJbdm]

The big problem is the USAF won't allow all senior members to wear their unifrom, like they did back WIWAC.  If they did, we wouldn't have all of the 3000 discussions.  But the USAF states we have to meet H/W requirements to wear AF-style uniforms because they don't want us non-photogenic bodies to be seen in an AF-style.

  Back in the 80's we also didn't have as bad of a weight problem in this country. Look at the size of americans these days! Is it any surprise the Air Force says "No! You must meet a somewhat reasonable standard."? We have very large members today then we did back in the 80's, or more precisely we have more members who are very overweight now then when back in the 80's.

[Custer]

Back in the 80's we also didn't have as bad of a weight problem in this country. Look at the size of americans these days! Is it any surprise the Air Force says "No! You must meet a somewhat reasonable standard."? We have very large members today then we did back in the 80's, or more precisely we have more members who are very overweight now then when back in the 80's.

I've only recently come back to CAP after being inactive since 1986 - and as far as I can recall at that time we had the blazer and the Guyaberra shirt, and that was it as far as non-USAF uniforms went.   And you had to be seriously out of standard to be forced into those.  Even with all that blue/white stuff gone there are more CAP uniforms than USAF uniforms.

[Senior]

robert.killion
Hint(one more uniform thread, and more opinions)
Tongue in cheek humor.  I proposed a cross between the woodland,
blue BDU and  part of the proposed CAWG Ground Team Uniform.

[vmstan]

It actually looks fairly good and satisfies all the requirements we are looking for in a uniform that everyone can wear.

For looking like something a bus driver would wear, yes.

[Short Field]

People said the same thing about the McPeak uniform changes... 

[RADIOMAN015]

Well after thinking about this for quite some time, frankly I think the AF is being too harsh with the standards they want to apply to CAP cadets & senior members wearing AF type uniforms.  The AF has a lot more to worry about than CAP members wear of AF type uniforms

When we put on CAP identifying name tags, rank, ribbons, badges, on these uniforms, it is no longer an AF uniform but a CAP uniform.

So as far as a dress uniform goes, allow any AF blue combination to be worn by anyone whether they are overweight, male with long hair, etc, as long as the uniform is a good fit.   Add the various wing patches again to the shoulder of the uniforms to further assist in identification as the wearer as non military.

HOWEVER, regarding BDU's/ACU's/Green Flight Suits, I'm still of the opinon to go to a different color.  Again blue does look good & conservative, and when in the field an orange vest (where allowed) could be used.  As non combatants there's got to be a very distinct difference in our uniforms than the military.   

Additionally, with the golf shirt, we should be allowed to wear the military blue pants worn with the other military type uniforms, or in field conditions wear the blue BDU pants.

The above proposals put us all in the same uniforms and identity, CAP wide (blue uniforms).

Again, the AF needs to realize that unless it has AF insignias on it, once CAP ID items are placed on the uniform it is no longer an AF uniform, so why hold CAP civilian volunteers to a military standard

RM

[Hawk200]

Might be easier to find an organization that doesn't use military uniforms. You won't have to chafe over it.

[PHall]

Again, the AF needs to realize that unless it has AF insignias on it, once CAP ID items are placed on the uniform it is no longer an AF uniform, so why hold CAP civilian volunteers to a military standard

RM

Because AFI 10-2701 says so.

Next question...

[DrJbdm]

 Once again Radioman has shown me that he really probably should consider a different, totally non-military organization.....U.S. Ranger Corps anybody??

Seriously?? You think having someone who looks like they just got off tour with ZZ Top wearing the Air Force uniform is a good idea? You really think the AF should just nod their heads in the pentagon and all sing..."Sharp Dressed man"??

Seriously brother, you may wanna consider reading AFI 10-2701 sometime. It has a wonderful side benefit....It will definitely cure any lingering insomnia!

[RADIOMAN015]

Once again Radioman has shown me that he really probably should consider a different, totally non-military organization.....U.S. Ranger Corps anybody??

Seriously?? You think having someone who looks like they just got off tour with ZZ Top wearing the Air Force uniform is a good idea? You really think the AF should just nod their heads in the pentagon and all sing..."Sharp Dressed man"??

Seriously brother, you may wanna consider reading AFI 10-2701 sometime. It has a wonderful side benefit....It will definitely cure any lingering insomnia!

Actually the Air Force can relax the wear standards for the AF type CAP uniform as they see fit, since it is there regulation/policy.  Perhaps CAP should just ask .

There's plenty of well qualified members that have neatly trimmed beards (fair amount of members) ,  males with pony tails/long hair (not a high percentage), as well as overweight (military standards) (probably the biggest percentage).   As long as the uniform is worn correctly and appropriately/adequately identified as Civil Air Patrol, Auxiliary of the USAF, what's the big deal

Again keep us entirely "blue" both in utility type uniforms and dress type uniforms (with appropriate wing shoulder patches) , gives us a good differentiating identity.

FYI for the record I meet both weight (AF standards) & apperance  as currently in the AIR FORCE uniform regulations.  :clap:     
RM   

[Hawk200]

Actually the Air Force can relax the wear standards for the AF type CAP uniform as they see fit, since it is there regulation/policy.

They could, but choose not to do it. And no one in CAP really has place to ask it.

Perhaps CAP should just ask .

I vote "no". We've got enough issues as it is, we don't need to be asking to eliminate policies that are there for a reason.

As long as the uniform is worn correctly and appropriately/adequately identified as Civil Air Patrol, Auxiliary of the USAF, what's the big deal

It's not a big deal, you're trying to make it one.

FYI for the record I meet both weight (AF standards) & apperance  as currently in the AIR FORCE uniform regulations.  :clap:     
RM   

Completely irrelevant, that gives no credibility to the argument. The point is that you joined an organization, and have decided that your way is better than theirs. The military, and its subsequent auxiliaries, is not a democracy and never was one.

If there's a vote to be made, you make it. If there isn't one, you accept the rules or move on. It's pretty simple.

[RADIOMAN015]

Thinking a bit more about this situation
As far as CAP using AF type uniforms, perhaps we do need to look at a bit more differentiation via color.    Maybe a fairly bright red background type rank soft shoulder insert (with ranks in white) as well as a red name tag with white lettering (to include blue bdu's/flight suits) would further show it is a CAP uniform and not an AF military uniform.

For examples of the different colors of red see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Shades_of_red

Also for a discussion on what various color mean in the art world look at:
http://www.princetonol.com/groups/iad/lessons/middle/color2.htm
The red color is defined as:
Excitement, energy, passion, love, desire, speed, strength, power, heat, aggression, danger, fire, blood, war, violence, all things intense and passionate

Contrast to the grey color definitions:
Security, reliability, intelligence, staid, modesty, dignity, maturity, solid, conservative, practical, old age, sadness, boring.

Blue signifies:
Peace, tranquility, cold, calm, stability, harmony, unity, trust, truth, confidence, conservatism, security, cleanliness, order, loyalty, sky, water, technology, depression, appetite surpression.

Comments? :angel:
RM

     

[Grumpy]

Somebody previously mentioned bringing the wing patch back.  I think that's a great idea.  It definitely identifies you as not being Air Force because it's like a neon sign on your shoulder saying "I'm not Air Force".   Besides, the Air Force doesn't use the wing patch or numbered air force shoulder patches anymore.  I miss seeing those things, ie, the old 5th Air Force patch.

Another thing it does is identify where you're from when attending these national activities and helps to boost the espirit-de-corps. 

[SJFedor]

Thinking a bit more about this situation
As far as CAP using AF type uniforms, perhaps we do need to look at a bit more differentiation via color.    Maybe a fairly bright red background type rank soft shoulder insert (with ranks in white) as well as a red name tag with white lettering (to include blue bdu's/flight suits) would further show it is a CAP uniform and not an AF military uniform.

For examples of the different colors of red see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Shades_of_red

Also for a discussion on what various color mean in the art world look at:
http://www.princetonol.com/groups/iad/lessons/middle/color2.htm
The red color is defined as:
Excitement, energy, passion, love, desire, speed, strength, power, heat, aggression, danger, fire, blood, war, violence, all things intense and passionate

Contrast to the grey color definitions:
Security, reliability, intelligence, staid, modesty, dignity, maturity, solid, conservative, practical, old age, sadness, boring.

Blue signifies:
Peace, tranquility, cold, calm, stability, harmony, unity, trust, truth, confidence, conservatism, security, cleanliness, order, loyalty, sky, water, technology, depression, appetite surpression.

Comments? :angel:
RM

   

we already had berry boards. they were horrible. end up looking like the salvation army.

[RiverAux]

Somebody previously mentioned bringing the wing patch back.  I think that's a great idea.  It definitely identifies you as not being Air Force because it's like a neon sign on your shoulder saying "I'm not Air Force".   Besides, the Air Force doesn't use the wing patch or numbered air force shoulder patches anymore.  I miss seeing those things, ie, the old 5th Air Force patch.

Another thing it does is identify where you're from when attending these national activities and helps to boost the espirit-de-corps.

While I don't think misidentification of CAP members is any sort of problem in the first place, if it was, this would be too small a change to make a difference. 

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

we already had berry boards. they were horrible. end up looking like the salvation army.

YAAUUGHH!!!!

CAP had just gone to those when I joined ('93).

They were AWFUL.

That's when it was explained to me that CAP got metal grade/blue boards taken because of the "self-promotion" and CAP officers trying to think they could order around AF CMSGTs.

If anyone wants to go back to THAT, just have a look here and refresh yourselves at what the recycled-sloe gin boards looked like:

http://wiki.cadetstuff.org/images/0/01/Asdf.png

Getting the grey boards and "US" collar devices was a partial sop compromise, but it seemed to have started the more zealously "civilian corporation" sector of the membership's "grey uniform" agenda.

I personally would gladly give back the grey boards and "US" devices in exchange for the CSU with metal grade and blue CAP shoulder boards for everyone.  I would give up the AF service dress for that, no kidding.

I wouldn't like the wing patch on the service dress, but I wouldn't mind the current "overseas" patch.

Face it...unless we go totally grey/white/polos (which I would resist strenuously), there are going to be members of the public and members of the Armed Forces who are going to think we are actual AF, especially given that the "low light/at a distance" guideline is so vaguely worded.