The Golden Pip

[KioGoten]

Hey guys,  I am new to the forums.

I was a cadet back in 1998.  I remember when the old ranking structure was around.  IE c/sergeant instead of c/SrA

I became a SM recently and I saw that they got rid of the golden pip... that made me sad lol.  I asked everyone where it went but no one could tell me anything about it.

When did they get rid of the Golden Pip for cadet officers?


-Nelson

CAPT CAP
SWR-TX-313 Abilene Squadron
2LT Texas Guard
Midland Medical Division

[Pylon]

The Cadet Flight Officer grade and the golden pip was officially retired around 2000, if I recall correctly.  There were a bunch of changes to the cadet programs structure to bring it more in line with actual Air Force ranks (including the renaming of C/Sgt to C/SrA, the change of the C/MSgt chevron to 5 down-1 up, and the creation of C/SMSgt and C/CMSgt). 

There was a phase-out date set, and all remaining C/FO on that date automatically became C/2d Lt's.   I also once was a C/FO, but had promoted past it when the changes came through.

[SarDragon]

According to the somewhat limited info I have, they came in sometime in 1968, and went away sometime after 1997.

[JC004]

I think that revision to 52-16 was dated 1998 or 1999?

[KioGoten]

That is interesting because I talked to the senior members in my squadron and none of them could tell me when the FO was retired.  They said I was dreaming because there was never such a rank.  yet I went through our rank box for a cadet and low and behold a golden pip and it wasnt the metal rank it was the cloth.

I showed everyone and they still were hesistant to say "Oh yes your right"  so is there a website with the old rank structure or something along those lines?

Capt Nelson Guadalupe, CAP
SWR-TX-313 Abilene Squadron
2LT Texas Guard
Midland Medical Division

[SarDragon]

I have olde copies of CAPM 39-1, and a 1985 research product done by a CAP major. I know the first date, when it was called Cadet Warrant Officer, because I was a member then, as a cadet. OTOH, I was likely inactive when they went away. I was away from CAP from August 1989 to September 1999.

[JC004]

That is interesting because I talked to the senior members in my squadron and none of them could tell me when the FO was retired.  They said I was dreaming because there was never such a rank.  yet I went through our rank box for a cadet and low and behold a golden pip and it wasnt the metal rank it was the cloth.

I showed everyone and they still were hesistant to say "Oh yes your right"  so is there a website with the old rank structure or something along those lines?

Capt Nelson Guadalupe, CAP
SWR-TX-313 Abilene Squadron
2LT Texas Guard
Midland Medical Division

http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/RANK-CDT/index.html

[FARRIER]

I wore the gold pip as a C/WO in 1985. I don't remember when it changed to C/FO.

[SarDragon]

That source only covers the cloth insignia. The metal versions came out earlier.

C/WO -> C/FO probably happened in 1987. The '87 version of CAPM 39-1 had C/FO.

[JC004]

All I could find, though.     I looked on the CAP history site too.

[SarDragon]

Yeah, there's not a lot out there. Major Regan's work only goes to 1985, and discusses the possibility of C/WO changing as a result of USAF WOs going away.

It's C/FO in the '87 39-1.

[JoeTomasone]

They were still C/WO when I left the Cadet Program around 1985-86.

[Trung Si Ma]

According to the somewhat limited info I have, they came in sometime in 1968, and went away sometime after 1997.

When I got my Mitchell in the summer of '69, C/WO was a new and confusing rank.  We were not allowed to wear the bus driver hat (anyone else remember the white bands?) or shoulder boards until we became "real" cadet officers.

[FW]

^I think we were allowed to wear the pips on the shoulder boards on our blue service jackets however, on the khakis, we wore the pips on our collars.  Of course, after 41 years, I'm lucky I still remember anything about those days....

[jeders]

That is interesting because I talked to the senior members in my squadron and none of them could tell me when the FO was retired.  They said I was dreaming because there was never such a rank.  yet I went through our rank box for a cadet and low and behold a golden pip and it wasnt the metal rank it was the cloth.

I showed everyone and they still were hesistant to say "Oh yes your right"  so is there a website with the old rank structure or something along those lines?

Capt Nelson Guadalupe, CAP
SWR-TX-313 Abilene Squadron
2LT Texas Guard
Midland Medical Division

Well clearly you didn't ask all the senior members in your squadron. 

Yeah, that went away in late '99 early '00. When I joined in late '00 I remember sitting through a Leadership Ch1 class and the cadet teaching it was going through the various corrections for the cadet rank structure.

And glad to see that you've found your way to CAPTalk, hopefully it won't send you 'round the bend like it has some of us.

[lordmonar]

That is interesting because I talked to the senior members in my squadron and none of them could tell me when the FO was retired.  They said I was dreaming because there was never such a rank.  yet I went through our rank box for a cadet and low and behold a golden pip and it wasnt the metal rank it was the cloth.

I showed everyone and they still were hesistant to say "Oh yes your right"  so is there a website with the old rank structure or something along those lines?

Capt Nelson Guadalupe, CAP
SWR-TX-313 Abilene Squadron
2LT Texas Guard
Midland Medical Division

Not suprising....it has been retired for 13 years now....what is the average TIS for a CAP senior membe?

I know down here in NVWG we only have a small handful of members with their 20 year pins.

[MIKE]

It would have had to of been around 1999, because I remember seeing the new cadet SNCO insignia at my basic encampment that summer while wearing old style C/MSgt myself.  I recall having the option to do the Armstrong, which I took... and then got my Mitchell in January of 2000 which conferred C/2d Lt rather than C/FO.

[SarDragon]

According to the somewhat limited info I have, they came in sometime in 1968, and went away sometime after 1997.

When I got my Mitchell in the summer of '69, C/WO was a new and confusing rank.  We were not allowed to wear the bus driver hat (anyone else remember the white bands?) or shoulder boards until we became "real" cadet officers.

That's exactly how it was for me, too. No hat, no boards.

The '83 39-1 talks about C/WO, but does not mention the gold pips on the boards.The '87 version says C/FO, and specifies that the gold pip may be worn on the boards.

[Flying Pig]

I was a C/FO!  And also when it topped out at C/MSgt.  Ahhh, the good ol' days.

[SarDragon]

Geez, Bob, you're olde!