American Sentinel University redux discussion

[dogboy]

I had not noticed before how much the National entry page for members

http://www.capmembers.com/

emphasizes the "benefit" of reduced tuition at an online college American Sentinel University.

There was a discussion some time ago about the limitations of ASU's accreditation by the DETC.

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=4635.0

I believe this is important enough to post a link to that discussion because neither the CAP page or ASU provide adequate information about this.

[Flying Pig]

Seems like a good program.  To bad they dont offer any programs that I am the slightest bit interested in!  

I am looking at one of the many aviation related degree programs that some colleges offer that count your ratings towards your degree.  With close to $60K invested in flight training, Id like to see at least some of it count towards a degree.  Utah Valley State College, College of the Sequoias are two that offer online degrees.

I just have to see if they will give me credit towards ratings I already have vs. doing them at their associated flight schools.

[DBlair]

Personally, I'd like to see CAP arrange more partnerships for members to receive reduced tuition for online/distance learning degree programs, but I'd like them to actually be Regionally Accredited.

Sure, people can find someone here or there who were successful with their Nationally "Accredited" degree and perhaps it was even recognized as legitimate by a Regionally Accredited university somewhere, but this is more of a unique instance rather than the norm. People can try to explain all day long that Nationally "Accredited" programs are decent and I do not deny that some may be good, but the fact of the matter is that they will not be universally recognized.

Most larger companies only recognize Regionally Accredited as legitimate degrees, the same goes for government positions, and RM Commissioning programs. Also, I believe the Federal Financial Aid (guaranteed Stafford Loans, Pell Grants, etc.) require it to be Regionally Accredited- which is why most Nationally "Accredited" programs either do in-house financing or suggest you apply for private student loans. From what I understand, the only Financial Aid that Nationally "Accredited" programs can get are the private educational loans.

Some states are considering imposing legislation requiring Nationally "Accredited" schools to disclose that a degree from that school will generally not be seen as legitimate- the result of many people feeling like they were misled and after the fact realizing that they have a degree (which probably cost them quite a bit) and yet they can't use at all. I know countless people who experienced this first hand. From what I understand, some states have already regulated these Nationally "Accredited" schools and imposed various restrictions as to what they can offer and how they can describe the program/school, etc.

With this in mind...

- Would I like to see CAP partner with more online degree programs? Yes, absolutely, if Regionally Accredited. I think it kind of looks bad to have CAP showcasing/endorsing a non-Regionally Accredited program on the main website. We want people to take us seriously, and then we showcase a school many would consider to be less than legitimate. That doesn't exactly help our image.

- Will I waste my time/money selecting a non-Regionally Accredited program with the hopes that it *might" be recognized somewhere? No, there are too many legitimate schools out there, why waste my time and money on something less.

[mynetdude]

why do nationally accredited schools even exist when the degrees are useless? What do people gain from it when they know they can't use the degree?? Might as well shut them down and only offer regionally accredited schools.

[DBlair]

why do nationally accredited schools even exist when the degrees are useless? What do people gain from it when they know they can't use the degree?? Might as well shut them down and only offer regionally accredited schools.

I would happen to agree.

If you look at some of the schools which claim other than Regional Accreditation, many are extremely questionable when you look in detail as to the degree and course requirements and various other aspects with some bordering on being degree mills. They survive because they generally offer degrees to people at a faster rate (less than 4 years) and also because they are seen as much easier. Not to mention, they often have much lower admission standards and give credits for "life experience" and other such things.

They usually market themselves like crazy and use as their target market the demographics of people without much of a background in higher education- thus, they are trying to get the people who don't know any better. There have been a variety of investigations about these Nationally "Accredited" schools and many were found to be bordering on fraud.

I've known Professors who have instructed at both Regionally Accredited and (to make some extra money on the side) Nationally "Accredited" schools and they all state that it is a much lower standard across the board at these Nationally "Accredited" schools and they often don't like to broadcast that they teach there as it tends to be soiling on their image/reputation as a Professor.

Additionally, many of these schools have people with only a Bachelor's degree teaching the classes where it is generally recogized that a Masters is the minimum (Doctoral Degree is preferred) to teach at the college level, and if you look at where the "professors" at these schools got their degrees, they tend to be from that same school or other such schools, or even in some cases from degree mills- as these are often the only places their degrees are recognized.

I had to laugh once when I saw a Nationally "Accredited" school that only accepted Regionally Accredited credits in transfer because they wanted to be sure the credits were of an acceptable standard... but what does that say about their own credits? lol

While those who went to these Nationally "Accredited" schools are often brainwashed into thinking that National is a higher Accreditation (you'd be amazed how much I've heard this) or will argue to no end that their degrees are acceptable or recognized, I would venture to say that the proof out there proves this to not be the case at all.

As for CAP, if they are going to promote/endorse a university or create some sort of partnership, it should be limited to Regionally Accredited schools as otherwise I feel it gives a bad image to our organization.

[dogboy]

why do nationally accredited schools even exist when the degrees are useless? What do people gain from it when they know they can't use the degree?? Might as well shut them down and only offer regionally accredited schools.

When the predecessor of DETC was established in 1926 as the National Home Study Council (NHSC), a trade association for correspondence schools it had the reasonable purpose of establishing a list of minimum standards for proprietary schools. Previously there were no national standards. These were mainly trade schools.

Problems began in 1959 when the NHSC was formally recognized by the U.S. Office of Education as an accreditor of higher education institutions. It adopted its current name in 1994. It quickly became the accreditor of choice for marginal schools with lower standards than those accredited by Regional accreditors.

It may be that some DETC school offer a decent education but except under certain circumstances, I believe it would be foolish to obtain what almost everyone considers a second rate degree,

While the DETC claims that most of its students are able to transfer some units to Regionally accredited school, a review of HETA

http://www.chea.org/heta/default.asp

indicates that few have formally agreed to do so. In my home state, California, no regionally accredited school has agreed to accept DETC credits.

It should also be noted that because of the No Child Left Behind law, a DETC degree cannot be used for a teaching credential, at least in California

http://www.ctc.ca.gov/credentials/leaflets/cl560c.pdf

So, the main reason DETC accreditation exists is because it is easier to obtain than Regional accreditation. Since most people don't know anything about accreditation, it is easy to convince them that DETC (often mistakenly and misleadingly called National accredition) is as good as any.

Some may claim that the Regional agencies will not accredit wholly on-line colleges. This is completely untrue. For example American Military University, which exists only on-line, has Regional accredition.

[jimmydeanno]

The reduced tuition rates for American Sentinel are the same as the standard rates at American Public University and American Military University.  Both are Regionally Accredited.

I've taken a few classes at AMU and wasn't disappointed in the quality of the course, at all.  For undergraduate courses it is currently running $250/ credit hour.  Another benefit is that they have a federal grant that pays for all of the books for undergrads (sign up for the class, they automatically ship them to you, free.)  They take tuition assistance, GIBill and other scholarships, etc.

Additionally, they have a few degree programs that are "CAPesque" like Emergency Management.  They have a bunch of other degree programs too.