Cadet Staff Positions - Grade vs. Experience

[kd8gua]

I'm curious as to how other squadrons approve/assign the various cadet chain of command positions. In my very first squadron, the highest cadet officer was C/CC, next highest was C/DCC. There were only two cadet officers at the time, so the rest were C/NCOs filling the C/1st Sgt, C/Flight Commander and C/Flight Sgt. positions. When a cadet was absent from the meeting, the chain of command - at least for opening/closing formations - just bumped the next cadet in line to the absent position. We had cadet Change of Command ceremonies about once a year (though I was only at my first squadron a year).

My second squadron started with two very strong flights of cadets, and a very clear and defined chain of command. After a while, the number of cadets dwindled, and the chain of command broke down to an element or two of cadets, the highest grade cadet as flight commander/sergeant/something, and this individual would report to the CC for formation.

My current squadron is having some growing pains. We have a lot of new cadets, and just last month promoted four Currys in one night. Some haven't even received their FCU Blues yet. Currently the chain of command has two flights, one for Wright Brothers cadet and up, and one for Basics as a training flight. The training flight is about 3x the size of the NCO flight. Because of the disparity of Basics vs NCOs vs Officers, the C/1st Sgt. position was abolished.

This is where my original question comes in. The DCC has started a new application process for various cadet staff positions. The positions will then be approved by the CC and DCC following an interview process and knowledge of the CAP cadet program. I think all of this is a great idea, however one of the prerequisites includes certain grade levels for each position. Because of this new prereq., the current C/CC, a C/2dLt, is no longer eligible to apply for his position. It seems that after looking through the grade requirements for all of the staff positions, the cadet chain of command will top off with one or maybe two flight commanders with no C/CC, C/DCC, or C/XO.

Is this a common setup for cadet chains of command? My last squadron from my cadet days was a special circumstance, with no new cadets coming in and many leaving. I don't have any role in my squadron working directly with cadet staff or anything, but as a former cadet, I'm still always interested to see what the cadet side is accomplishing.

[Eclipse]

I am of the opinion that if you don't have cadets of the appropriate grade, you should do without a given position until someone with that grade is ready.

There is nothing that says a unit has to have a Cadet Commander

Bumping cadets up too fast to command roles robs them of the role and growth experience they should be in and may result in prematurely
quitting the program because they moved too fast. 

[kd8gua]

Eclipse,

I saw that bumping up too fast first hand. I was a product of that. At my last squadron, I was the flight... something. I was a newly minted C/MSgt at the time, and really had no idea what I was supposed to do. The C/CC we had left and never bothered to train anyone. I was burned out, and had no clue what I was doing.

[jimmydeanno]

It is hard coming into a squadron, taking a leadership position and changing how things are run - but that is how it goes.  The past two times I've taken a position as DCC for a unit, I've completely changed the way that the cadet staff is run.  It usually takes a bit of time to make the adjustment, but at least once I was fortunate enough to have the C/CMSgt C/CC go off to college just as I took over.

I firmly believe that a cadet should hold the grade appropriate for the position.  Unfortunately, because most units are lacking in the cadet officer positions, it results in the senior leadership having to be a bit more hands on than most of them are comfortable with.  I'm OK with it.

The Cadet Staff Guide does a great job explaining what I believe and it's pretty easy to follow. 

As for the actual selection I'll select the C/CC because there is usually only 1 or 2 possible candidates if any.  Because the field widens at that point, I'll let the new C/CC take applications for positions that we'd discussed previously with a bit of flexibility (A cadet wants to be First Sergeant but is a C/TSgt and almost completed requirements, they can apply, etc). 

From there, the C/CC makes the announcement about which applications being taken, term limits, etc.  Interviews are done, C/CC and I approve the selections, make announcements and then have an initial staff meeting to talk about expectations, goals, etc.

For lower positions like Element Leader, I'll leave that up to the Flight Commanders to rotate out as needed or when practical.

[JC004]

Eclipse,

I saw that bumping up too fast first hand. I was a product of that. At my last squadron, I was the flight... something. I was a newly minted C/MSgt at the time, and really had no idea what I was supposed to do. The C/CC we had left and never bothered to train anyone. I was burned out, and had no clue what I was doing.

Agree with that.  Also, the issue of a cadet loosing the beginner/intermediate experience is a big one for me.  They need a solid foundation.

[NavLT]

The 20-1 org chart is a great theoretical document but it assumes a unit with 100 cadets and 20 officers. I agree with the keep the responsibility with the grade idea. The only real shortfall I have seen with the "more senior leadership involvement" model is the lack of training/skill in the seniors and the sometimes difficult transition back to the cadets when they do get promoted. The don't have a cadet who did that job to imitate. Real strong cadets will define the position on their own, but if they are not driven selfstarters they can flounder. We found keeping a squadron job descreption in a pass down book with weekly duties, sample forms, SOPs was invaluble for bridging the knowledge/mentor gap.

V/R
LT J

[BillB]

The revisions made to CAPM 20-1 about ten years ago were minor. The revisions felt mainly with Senior member staffing. The cadet portion of the manual dates back in most part to the late 1940's. Squadrons with 100 cadets was just about the norm back then. And keep in mind, you didn't need a Cadet COP to be an officer. Cadets could be promoted and demoted to fill duty assignments. Once you earned the Cadet COP, you were promoted/demoted only in officer grades.
So a Cadet Major as Cadet Commander is replaced, he may go down to C/2Lt the next meeting.

[IceNine]

I completely agree with most everything in this thread so far.

The techniques listed here are universal from the largest units and cadet activities to the smallest/newest units.

Cadets should be expected (read: required) to experience all levels of membership.  This means they spend some time as a follower, then take on small leadership responsibilities (special tasks, elements, etc).  Once they have a sound base of leadership experience and knowledge give them a little more ( flight sergeant, hour long class, etc).

By Mitchell a cadet should be able to command a 12-16 person flight with ease, plan a unit meeting, recognize problems AND provide solutions to their leaders.

By Earhart they should be able to command 2-3 flights, 6-8 staff, a day long outing or activity for their unit, recognize and listen to problems presented by their staff, evaluate solutions, and present implementation plans to their leaders.

By Eaker they should be capable of commanding 6+ flights, 20+ staff, weekend long high participation activities, implement received solutions, be THE leader and make a deputy for cadets a non-essential position.

By Spaatz they should be stepping out of squadron leadership and working on whatever they want (within reason)

[High Speed Low Drag]

I also agree with the above.  When I came in as DCC, the highest we had was aC/Tsgt and enough cadets for 2 elements.  I made the C/TSgt a Flight Sergeant and that was the highest.  Me and my staff were the "C/CC" and on down.  As the cadets advanced, we relinquished grade-appropriate responsibilities / authority to them.  Now we have 2 cadet officers, numerous NCOs, and about 20 Phase Ones.  It is working out well.  The staff heavily mentors the two officers to prevent burn-out and still guide them through the achievements.

I do believe that if you have an officer, they should be named as Cadet Commander.  Judging by the latest numbers from National, only 3.9% of cadets make it to Earhart vs. 11.3% make it to Mitchell.  If we waited for someone to make it to the "Cadet Commander  Achievement," a squadron could go years without having a Cadet Commander.  By filling the Cadet Commander with an officer, that offers incentive to the other cadets to work hard & make the Mitchell.  Of course, as the officer ranks grow, you can slide C/CC upwards.