Part 91 / Part 135?

[Flying Pig]

NON-CAP related but still relevant

Scenario.

A pilot is flying for a Part 91 Commercial operator that is NOT 135.  Sight seeing flights, photo flights, tours, etc.

A call comes in from a customer who wants to fly out to a private ranch and photograph wildlife.  This person already has permission from the land owner to land there.  The pilot will land, and stand by while the customer photographs the wildlife.  When the customer is done, the pilot will fly the customer back the original airport of departure.  Is this Part 135 or can this be done Part 91 as a Commercial Operator?  I know aerial tours and photo flights are not 135, but what if the customer wants to land and take a photo in the process to get a better shot?

[a2capt]

A local bi-plane operation ran afoul offering flights for dinner/lunch because of the landing and departing of the aircraft. Taking folks from one airport that they operated a sightseeing operation from, landing at another for the meal stop.

I don't recall the specifics of the stop, if the aircraft remained or was available for additional revenue in the meantime. If it stays that certainly would make this a costly thing as there's nothing romantic about being rushed for dinner.

[JC004]

Federal agencies very often do interpretation letters.  I've seen 'em from ATF, NPS, HUD, NFS, etc.  Write to the FAA and get a response in writing.  If you have an issue, you have something in black and white on FAA letterhead.

[Trung Si Ma]

91.147(b) requires a letter of authorization from the FSDO for passenger carrying for hire and 91.147(e) requires you to operate within the limits of that letter.  Since the operating letter is your authority to operate, I would expect it to specifically spell out all limitations.

Having said that, the folks that I know who do this type of flying in Alaska are single pilot, on-demand 135 operations.

[Flying Pig]

Im talking about at actual company that is a flight school that also does sight seeing, aerial photos, etc.  Those are exemptions that are allowed in Part 91.  However, if during one of those sight seeing tours, the passenger wants to land and actually look at something up close?  Then continue the tour.  Does the act of landing, letting them get out for a few minutes and then continuing on throw you into Part 135?  Or is that still considered a photo flight/sight seeing/aerial tours? 

I dont think a flight school is going to get an exemption letter from the FAA.  Besides, a lot of federal and local government agencies can operate under Public Use.

[Flying Pig]

91.147(b) requires a letter of authorization from the FSDO for passenger carrying for hire and 91.147(e) requires you to operate within the limits of that letter.  Since the operating letter is your authority to operate, I would expect it to specifically spell out all limitations.

Having said that, the folks that I know who do this type of flying in Alaska are single pilot, on-demand 135 operations.

Part 119.1 pretty much says "no" to my scenario.  Non Stop your good.  As soon as you land and let them out, your no longer "non-stop".

[flynd94]

91.147(b) requires a letter of authorization from the FSDO for passenger carrying for hire and 91.147(e) requires you to operate within the limits of that letter.  Since the operating letter is your authority to operate, I would expect it to specifically spell out all limitations.

Having said that, the folks that I know who do this type of flying in Alaska are single pilot, on-demand 135 operations.

Part 119.1 pretty much says "no" to my scenario.  Non Stop your good.  As soon as you land and let them out, your no longer "non-stop".

Rob,

You stole my thunder.  I was going to tell you to take a look at 119.  What your friend wants to do, is a 135 op.

[DG]

91.147(b) requires a letter of authorization from the FSDO for passenger carrying for hire and 91.147(e) requires you to operate within the limits of that letter.  Since the operating letter is your authority to operate, I would expect it to specifically spell out all limitations.

Having said that, the folks that I know who do this type of flying in Alaska are single pilot, on-demand 135 operations.

Part 119.1 pretty much says "no" to my scenario.  Non Stop your good.  As soon as you land and let them out, your no longer "non-stop".

Rob, you are on the right track.  "What does the regulation say?"

And Keith is, too.

(Relevant regulation reprinted hereinbelow.)

Next question:  After answering the question of whether you need certification as an air carrier or operator, do you still have a second question of whether you need certification as a commercial license as the pilot?

This section 119.1(e) is given strong focus in the commercial license, both in the pilot instruction and pilot evaluation.

And further, this question is very much CAP related.  Although on your specific facts that the helocopter operator is not CAP, maybe not.  But what about when CAP does it.  What about when we in CAP do aerial photography under an MOU or other agreement and get paid, do we need certification as a commercial carrier or operator?  Do our pilots need to have a commercial license?  Second class medical?


(e) Except for operations when common carriage is not involved conducted with airplanes having a passenger-seat configuration of 20 seats or more, excluding any required crewmember seat, or a payload capacity of 6,000 pounds or more, this part does not apply to -
(1) Student instruction;
[(2) Nonstop Commercial Air Tours conducted after September 11, 2007, in an airplane or helicopter having a standard airworthiness certificate and passenger-seat configuration of 30 seats or fewer and a maximum payload capacity of 7,500 pounds or less that begin and end at the same airport, and are conducted within a 25-statute mile radius of that airport, in compliance with the Letter of Authorization issued under Sec. 91.147 of this chapter. For nonstop Commercial Air Tours conducted in accordance with part 136, subpart B of this chapter, National Parks Air Tour Management, the requirements of part 119 of
this chapter apply unless excepted in Sec. 136.37(g)(2). For Nonstop Commercial Air Tours conducted in the vicinity of the Grand Canyon National Park, Arizona, the requirements of SFAR 50-2, part 93, subpart U, and part 119 of this chapter, as applicable, apply.]
(3) Ferry or training flights;
(4) Aerial work operations, including -
(i) Crop dusting, seeding, spraying, and bird chasing;
(ii) Banner towing;
(iii) Aerial photography or survey;
(iv) Fire fighting;
(v) Helicopter operations in construction or repair work (but it does apply to transportation to and from the site of operations); and
(vi) Powerline or pipeline patrol;
(5) Sightseeing flights conducted in hot air balloons;
(6) Nonstop flights conducted within a 25-statute-mile radius of the airport of takeoff carrying persons or objects for the purpose of conducting intentional parachute operations;
(7) Helicopter flights conducted within a 25 statute mile radius of the airport of takeoff if -
(i) Not more than two passengers are carried in the helicopter in addition to the required flightcrew;
(ii) Each flight is made under day VFR conditions;
(iii) The helicopter used is certificated in the standard category and complies with the 100-hour inspection requirements of part 91 of this chapter;
(iv) The operator notifies the FAA Flight Standards District Office responsible for the geographic area concerned at least 72 hours before each flight and furnishes any essential information that the office requests;
(v) The number of flights does not exceed a total of six in any calendar year;
(vi) Each flight has been approved by the Administrator; and
(vii) Cargo is not carried in or on the helicopter
8 Operations conducted under part 133 of this chapter or 375 of this title;
(9) Emergency mail service conducted under 49 U.S.C. 41906 or
(10) Operations conducted under the provisions of Sec. 91.321 of this chapter (carriage of candidates for federal office).

[Flying Pig]

There is a specific exemption in the FARs for CAP operations.  I would have to look it up though.

[DG]

There is a specific exemption in the FARs for CAP operations.  I would have to look it up though.

So what do you do? 

Who is paying attention to when we need a pilot with a commercial license?

A second class medical?

The FAA has ruled that CAP aircraft operations are considered those of "civil aircraft" and not "public aircraft" and are therefore subject to the Federal Aviation Regulations (FARs).

FAA Exemptions for CAP Operations: All CAP operations are conducted under the FARs unless specifically exempted by the FAA. CAP has obtained FAA exemptions in two areas:

1. FAR Part 61

The FAA Exemption to FAR Part 61.113(e), exemption number 6771B, allows CAP members who are private pilots flying Air Force assigned (Categories A and B) "search and locate" missions to be reimbursed for certain expenses.

Reimbursement for member-furnished aircraft is included.

Per diem is allowed.

Only reimbursement and per diem provided for in CAP Regulation 173-3, Payment for Civil Air Patrol Support, are allowed, and only at the rates and in accordance with the procedures set forth in that regulation.

2. FAR Part 91

This exemption, number 6485, applies only when a non-member passenger or property not owned by CAP is being carried on a flight that CAP would be making even if the non-member passenger or property was not on board.

CAP is allowed to receive limited payment while operating small aircraft under the General Operating and Flight Rules of FAR Part 91 instead of Part 135. All of the additional rules of FAR Part 91.501-91.599 apply.

The exemption allows:

CAP to receive payment (not in excess of the cost of owning, operating, and maintaining the airplane) from sources other than CAP, i.e., FEMA, Red Cross, NWS, FAA, when non-member persons (other than crewmembers) are carried, and

CAP to receive payment (not in excess of twice the cost of fuel, oil, lubricants, and other additives plus the out of pocket costs of the flight) from sources other than CAP, i.e., FEMA, Red Cross, NWS, FAA, when property belonging to other than CAP is to be transported (i.e., – Red Cross blood transport).

The CAP pilot in command (PIC) conducting operations under this exemption must hold a commercial pilot certificate with appropriate category and class ratings for the aircraft to be used in the operation. The PIC also must hold an instrument rating except when conducting day VFR flights within 50 nautical miles of the departure airport.

The PIC conducting operations under this exemption must hold at least a current second-class medical certificate.

The aircraft used for operations conducted under this exemption must be maintained and have 100-hour and annual inspections performed in accordance with FAR part 43 and part 91.

[majgva]

I believe that as long as the pilot is not compensated for flying services and only reimbursed for fuel expenses, the flight is legal.

[Mustang]

I believe that as long as the pilot is not compensated for flying services and only reimbursed for fuel expenses, the flight is legal.

You're quite mistaken.

This is actually a very pertinent subject for CAP discussion.  CAP's exemptions to the FARs are very narrowly defined, making it very easy to run afoul of the FARs and potentially subject the pilot to enforcement action.

[flynd94]

I believe that as long as the pilot is not compensated for flying services and only reimbursed for fuel expenses, the flight is legal.

You're quite mistaken.

This is actually a very pertinent subject for CAP discussion.  CAP's exemptions to the FARs are very narrowly defined, making it very easy to run afoul of the FARs and potentially subject the pilot to enforcement action.

Yeah, try that one and, get back to me on how long your ticket is in "hack" for.  The FAR's aren't that easy.  If you are an AOPA member get their legal opinion or, call your local FSDO for an answer.

[FW]

Unless the exemptions have changed recently; I'm pretty sure private pilots may fly all our "A" missions.   Pilots can NOT log the time however, unless they hold a commercial license and Class 2 medical under the part 91 exemption.  The exemptions used to be listed in 60-1 but, not any more...

[ßτε]

http://capmembers.com/media/cms/FAR_EXEMPTIONS_FOR_CAP_AIRCRAFT_OPE_CDAB0D431F658.pdf