GLR ES Conference

[davidsinn]

I was at the GLR ES Conference this last weekend. I swear I was at a life CAPtalk thread. I heard NASAR thrown out. I heard give ground ops equal billing that kind of stuff. I really enjoyed the briefings by the LR/CC and John Salvador. Mr. Salvador seemed really receptive to concerns from the field. Col Carr, CC/GLR spoke and I would follow that man to hell and back, he is that inspiring of a leader.

One thing I heard that really put me off was an IC was talking about Evals and said to task your teams and birds inbound. Great Idea. INWG does that and it works well. Then he said to not have the PIC fuel the bird but have another pilot do it. Since we were pressed for time he could not take my question at the time but afterwords I asked him what about flight-line? He told me that on a mission he runs he will not let a none FAA pilot TOUCH and airplane let alone move it and fuel it. BTW he is a self proclaimed captain for life with no use for PD. What is so magical about an airplane that us non-rated mortals know nothing about them? I was on a flight-line that was awarded the first Excellent that GLLR had ever given to flight-line and Air Ops got the next highest grade so I know a little bit about handling airplanes. He wouldn't hear any of it and said he doesn't trust non-pilots to touch aircraft. I walked off at that point as it wasn't worth it. Is this a normal attitude? How can we fix this?

[SarDragon]

Like - WOW!

WIWOAD, us non-pilot, non-officer wienies did EVERYTHING on the ground. I've fueled everything from a C-47 to an F-4. Somehow, fueling a Cessna doesn't seem all that hard in comparison.

[maverik]

I recieved the transcript of the comm part and I think INWG is doing a great job overall, but I love the suggestions the AF officer was making for comm.  I just trained over the weekend and as CUL I ended up showing pilots how to switch the switches in the aircraft to get on the right freq and they didn't know they could do half the stuff I showed them especially on the G1000, so that to me says us non-rates can know a few things about the aircraft pilots don't.

[Short Field]

Somehow, fueling a Cessna doesn't seem all that hard in comparison.

Well, that just shows how little you know!  How can you even consider comparing yourself to the exalted education and training levels of the ramp rats the FBO hires to refuel all the airplanes?  Duh...

[SarDragon]

<chuckles aloud> 

[maverik]

Speaking of fueling why is one of the flight marshaller taks to demonstrate fueling if cadets cannot fuel?

[Short Field]

Speaking of fueling why is one of the flight marshaller taks to demonstrate fueling if cadets cannot fuel?

What makes you think they were talking about cadets?  He was talking about any non-pilot not knowing enough to refuel or watch the refueling truck refuel the airplane.

[SarDragon]

Speaking of fueling why is one of the flight marshaller taks to demonstrate fueling if cadets cannot fuel?

I fueled as a cadet, but that was back when Cessna's current 182 model was the 'J'.

[davidsinn]

Speaking of fueling why is one of the flight marshaller taks to demonstrate fueling if cadets cannot fuel?

What makes you think they were talking about cadets?  He was talking about any non-pilot not knowing enough to refuel or watch the refueling truck refuel the airplane.

He basically told me to my face that I can not be trusted to touch an airplane because I don't have wings on my chest. Little does he know I play with far larger and more expensive pieces of equipment often and put them much closer to fixed objects than I would ever consider placing an aircraft.

[Cato the Younger]

Col Carr, CC/GLR spoke and I would follow that man to hell and back, he is that inspiring of a leader.

Interesting? I would put him in the same catagory of leader as HWSRN. 

YMMV

[davidsinn]

Col Carr, CC/GLR spoke and I would follow that man to hell and back, he is that inspiring of a leader.

Interesting? I would put him in the same catagory of leader as HWSRN. 

YMMV

Ouch.

While he was appointed by that guy he is a pretty fair man. There has been some...interesting things go on in my wing in the past and for the most part he dealt with them in a fair manner. I talked with him right after I parked his Piper at our eval couple years back and he seemed like a pretty nice guy.

[Eclipse]

Its been a while since I have been to a mission, real or otherwise, that had CAP people working the flightline - in most cases we either have too few aircraft to justify them, or we are at an FBO that has their own people.

Regardless, in most cases it's not going to be up to the pilot to decide who fuels the airplane, or even his problem.

If its a professional FBO, they are going to drive up, fuel the airplane and leave, and as mentioned, most likely none of them will be pilots, nor will they have much interest in said CAP member's opinion about their abilities to put go-juice in an airplane.

If its a CAP flightline, the FLS or AOBD will determine who fuels the airplane, and in most cases will also have little time for said opinion regarding who he has approved for go-juice injection.  On occasion you will get a pilot who tries to draw some bizzarre line in the sand on something like this, and that is dealt with on the spot.  (Or not. In the end, if the pilot wants to fuel his own airplane, whatever, as long as the next sortie isn't delayed while he runs FAA checks on the guy holding the nozzle.)

This is not just a pilot issue - we have members all over the place who wreck one-car funerals because of all the extra processes and
double-secret rules they try to put in place during missions and other operations.  These people tend to be removed from the first-call list
as their level of drama is sensed by mission planners and directors.

[davidsinn]

Its been a while since I have been to a mission, real or otherwise, that had CAP people working the flightline - in most cases we either have too few aircraft to justify them, or we are at an FBO that has their own people.

Regardless, in most cases it's not going to be up to the pilot to decide who fuels the airplane, or even his problem.

If its a professional FBO, they are going to drive up, fuel the airplane and leave, and as mentioned, most likely none of them will be pilots, nor will they have much interest in said CAP member's opinion about their abilities to put go-juice in an airplane.

If its a CAP flightline, the FLS or AOBD will determine who fuels the airplane, and in most cases will also have little time for said opinion regarding who he has approved for go-juice injection.  On occasion you will get a pilot who tries to draw some bizzarre line in the sand on something like this, and that is dealt with on the spot.  (Or not. In the end, if the pilot wants to fuel his own airplane, whatever, as long as the next sortie isn't delayed while he runs FAA checks on the guy holding the nozzle.)

This is not just a pilot issue - we have members all over the place who wreck one-car funerals because of all the extra processes and
double-secret rules they try to put in place during missions and other operations.  These people tend to be removed from the first-call list
as their level of drama is sensed by mission planners and directors.

This was an IC that won't allow it. Pretty narrow minded in my view. I didn't mention that he was unaware that our FLMs even had the training to fuel an aircraft. Combined with his lifer captain, zipper suited sun-god mentality it makes me question his abilities as an IC.

I will be running a flightline in two weeks with a single airplane on it. It gives the cadets that can't or don't want to do GT something to contribute to the mission and it's pretty fun to boot. If I can score a mission number than you are welcome to come down and play on my line major and I'll get you a new rating. Strike that you have encampment.

We have the training for a reason we should use it and let the pilots do something more productive with their time than fueling. I really enjoy manhandling airplanes. I can turn a sortie around far faster than Air Ops can get me pilots to launch.

[heliodoc]

^^^

I love "manhandling" aircraft also.  I would love to see how the NHQ legal types and insurance companies view..."manhandling"

Don't know if we "manhandled" aircraft when I was working as an aircraft mech on Hueys, Blackhawks, and C12's

Manhandling?  Is that like wrestlin Hulk Hogan or  wooooooooooo Rick Flair?

[davidsinn]

^^^

I love "manhandling" aircraft also.  I would love to see how the NHQ legal types and insurance companies view..."manhandling"

Don't know if we "manhandled" aircraft when I was working as an aircraft mech on Hueys, Blackhawks, and C12's

Manhandling?  Is that like wrestlin Hulk Hogan or  wooooooooooo Rick Flair?

No, it's using a tow-bar instead of a tug. It's using man power handle the aircraft. Everything is strictly by the book. Please keep your snarky, pointless comments out of my thread.

[SarDragon]

^^^

I love "manhandling" aircraft also.  I would love to see how the NHQ legal types and insurance companies view..."manhandling"

Don't know if we "manhandled" aircraft when I was working as an aircraft mech on Hueys, Blackhawks, and C12's

Manhandling?  Is that like wrestlin Hulk Hogan or  wooooooooooo Rick Flair?

Well, WIWOAD, Hueys certainly required manhandling to balance them on the wheels while being towed.

Now back to our regularly scheduled programming.

[Senior]

Rick Flair, let the Wrestling at the Chase begin, that is old.
I wouldn't want to work for that IC on a practice or real mission.

[heliodoc]

Sorry SarDragon,

WIWOAD nor the Guard I didn't have to manhandle the tow wheels on a Huey...... those tow wheels were simple!

That Army PT program actually had a reason for it!