Enlisted to Officer Conversion Kit

[Spike]

I want to be able to take an enlisted Service Dress jacket and turn it into an Officers Service Dress jacket.  Where can I find the Conversion kit to get this done?  AAFES no longer has them.  Anyone here know a possible location?

[PHall]

No such animal.

They had something similar right after Mc Peak got canned, but that was eons ago.

[Eclipse]

A lot of members in my wing have taken remnants of unusable service jackets as the material for the epaulets, plus buttons from the
same jacket or found elsewhere and had a local tailor unstitch the arm seams and add them.

You'd never tell the difference, cost was about $25.

[Spike]

^ Coolness thank you.  I just imagined that those Enlisted guys that go through OTS would buy a conversion kit at a less expensive cost then a new jacket.  Oh Well!

[PHall]

^ Coolness thank you.  I just imagined that those Enlisted guys that go through OTS would buy a conversion kit at a less expensive cost then a new jacket.  Oh Well!

They get an Initial Uniform Allowance to purchase a set of uniforms just like all of the other OTS students.

[raivo]

^ Coolness thank you.  I just imagined that those Enlisted guys that go through OTS would buy a conversion kit at a less expensive cost then a new jacket.  Oh Well!

I don't know of anyone who did that. I assumed it was because of the "ghost stripes."

[flyboy53]

There never was a kit and enlisted people converting to officer generally buy new. I did, but I understand the cost factor.

However, it is possible and will require the services of a good seamstress. Here's how it's done. Get a pair of matching material pants, take them to the seamstress and have her cut the shoulder straps from the pants material and sew them on with velcro and a faux button on the pointed end. You're going to need to take a pair of shoulder rank or another dress jacket so that she can get some measurements. Kind of brings you back full circle to World War II when uniforms had to be converted to red shoulder straps.

Here's another option. In some instances (smaller people and women) the shoulder mark grade is long enough that it can be sewed down on both ends, with one end under the collar. You almost can't tell the difference.

[lordmonar]

Okay....I'll say it.

Local modifications are not allowed by 39-1. 

Just buy/get a new jacket.

[ColonelJack]

I may be mistaken, but I can almost swear that a "conversion kit" did exist during the changeover from the McPeak sleeve stripes to Fogelman's putting the rank back on the shoulders.  It may have been an unofficial thing ... but there's at least one photograph of a general's service coat that had been converted from the McPeak style to the current through the addition of epaulets at a later time.

The link is www.usafflagranks.com and it's in the "Service Dress Coat" section, at the bottom after the discussion about the McPeak uniform.  Click on the "Examples" link and go to the coat owned by Brig. Gen. James R. Beale.  It's a converted McPeak coat with epaulets added later.

Jack

[davidsinn]

Okay....I'll say it.

Local modifications are not allowed by 39-1. 

Just buy/get a new jacket.

By that logic having my jacket sleeves tailored to fit better isn't allowed either.

I think it would be allowed as you are going from one authorized item to another authorized item not say, adding a pen pocket to the sleeve of your BDU.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I may be mistaken, but I can almost swear that a "conversion kit" did exist during the changeover from the McPeak sleeve stripes to Fogelman's putting the rank back on the shoulders.  It may have been an unofficial thing ... but there's at least one photograph of a general's service coat that had been converted from the McPeak style to the current through the addition of epaulets at a later time.

The link is www.usafflagranks.com and it's in the "Service Dress Coat" section, at the bottom after the discussion about the McPeak uniform.  Click on the "Examples" link and go to the coat owned by Brig. Gen. James R. Beale.  It's a converted McPeak coat with epaulets added later.

Jack

I've seen them on sale some years ago for about $12 bucks. AAFES carried them I believe.

[Hawk200]

Okay....I'll say it.

Local modifications are not allowed by 39-1. 

Just buy/get a new jacket.

By that logic having my jacket sleeves tailored to fit better isn't allowed either.

The logic isn't valid. There is a major difference between tailoring and modifying. Tailoring is allowed, modifying is not.

I think it would be allowed as you are going from one authorized item to another authorized item not say, adding a pen pocket to the sleeve of your BDU.

Converting items is modification. It would be one thing to do it to a brand new coat, but not to one that's "seasoned".

Fabrics fade at different rates for different people. It's a result of everyone wears uniforms at different times, hence each uniform has different exposures to different environments. Not everyone cleans their uniforms the same way or at the same place. Using pieces from different items to piece together a single item will show for the patchwork it is.

The most professional appearance will be maintained by simply obtaining a coat with the epaulets as an original part.

[lordmonar]

Okay....I'll say it.

Local modifications are not allowed by 39-1. 

Just buy/get a new jacket.

By that logic having my jacket sleeves tailored to fit better isn't allowed either.

I think it would be allowed as you are going from one authorized item to another authorized item not say, adding a pen pocket to the sleeve of your BDU.

Tailoring is allowed.

But adding things that are allowed is a modification that in my understanding of the regulation is still not allowed due to standardisation.

If we let people take their uniforms to just anyone to add epaulets.....and someone does a bad job....now it is even worse then before.

Back in the day......they did offer the kits....but they were kits authorised by the USAF so they eliminated the problem with standardisation.

Taking an old pair of pants and giving them to your tailor just screams to me that we are going to get some jacked up looking uniforms.

Do yourself a favor.  Save the $70 and buy a new coat.

[davidsinn]

Okay....I'll say it.

Local modifications are not allowed by 39-1. 

Just buy/get a new jacket.

By that logic having my jacket sleeves tailored to fit better isn't allowed either.

I think it would be allowed as you are going from one authorized item to another authorized item not say, adding a pen pocket to the sleeve of your BDU.

Tailoring is allowed.

But adding things that are allowed is a modification that in my understanding of the regulation is still not allowed due to standardisation.

If we let people take their uniforms to just anyone to add epaulets.....and someone does a bad job....now it is even worse then before.

Back in the day......they did offer the kits....but they were kits authorised by the USAF so they eliminated the problem with standardisation.

Taking an old pair of pants and giving them to your tailor just screams to me that we are going to get some jacked up looking uniforms.

Do yourself a favor.  Save the $70 and buy a new coat.

What about removing the epaulets from a non serviceable coat and putting them on a good one? Assuming the colors match.

[jimmydeanno]

If the final product looks like a "real" officer coat, who would know the difference anyway?  Does it matter?  No.  If the fabric matches, it has the same buttons, and it isn't a botch job (done by an actual tailor) you can get away with it because nobody would know...

I've seen conversion done by people that I couldn't tell the difference.  I've seen worse altering jobs.  One coat I saw a senior had his coat let out and had dark lines along nearly every seam, because the fabric wasn't exposed to the sun, etc until the seam was redone.

People getting their sleeves lengthened usually have some weird creases at the bottom.

If you get a "like new" service coat off e-bay for $30 bucks or something and have fabric that matches, you can end up with a coat for $50 instead of $170.  Seems like a good deal to me.  If it looks like crap, then call them out on it.  If you can't tell, you probably wouldn't say anything anyway...

[flyboy53]

I may be mistaken, but I can almost swear that a "conversion kit" did exist during the changeover from the McPeak sleeve stripes to Fogelman's putting the rank back on the shoulders.

Jack

There wasn't a conversion kit.

What happened that day was that General Fogelman walked into the change of command ceremony wearing the old uniform. Before the end of that day, units were sent a message telling them that the uniform change was put on hold until the general had a chance to review everything. People were ordered to put the old uniform back on. If I remember correctly, a massive change order came down the pike about three months later with a variety of corrections to include putting the rank back on shoulder straps.

I don't think there were a lot of the airline stripe uniforms in the field, either. Officers wore them much in the same way that our senior leadership wore the CSU/TPU and the style generally wasn't received well. The sad thing, though, is that style of rank was originally considered when the original blues were designed.

That McPeak era had another unpopular uniform. Everyone was ordered to take their stripes, officer grade and patches off the BDUs. We all wore "sanitized" uniforms with only a leather name tag attached with velcro. The first people who objected were officers because you couldn't tell an officer from a distance. It also hurt unit pride because of the lack of unit patches. 

[flyboy53]

Okay....I'll say it.

Local modifications are not allowed by 39-1. 

Just buy/get a new jacket.

The regulation says compliance....is mandatory...variations aren't authorized. It doesn't say that a uniform can't be altered, especially when the same material is being used and the design of a shoulder mark is copied. If local alterations/modifications weren't authorized, that would mean that every cadet officer who uses velcro or snaps to attach shoulder boards was in violation of the reg.

Besides how are you going to notice the difference if the shoulder strap is under a gray sholder sleve?

At Alaskan Air Command Airman Leadership School, we were taught to spray Scotch Guard on our ribbons to preserve them; to clean the ribbon devices with metal cleaner or an old ink eraser and then coat the attachment with clear nail polish. It was never considered an illegal alteration. Years later, I did seven years as a recruiter. One of things we did in that assignment was sew our pants pockets shut. It was an acceptable alteration.

I think the key is just as jimmydeano said earlier, use common sense and do it professionally. He should know, he's a former cadet who cuts a pretty sharp image in uniform.

[lordmonar]

Okay.....but there is a big difference between using different systems of attaching the shoulder boards and going to a tailor to retrofit epaletts.

As for what you were told in ALS.....hold on tight......you are not going to beleive this.....but the WERE WRONG!

I did my 22 years and I have heard all the tricks of the trade.....but the scotch guarding your ribbons was in violation of 35-10 back in '86 when I joined and it is still in violation of AFI 36-2903 today.

4.6. Description of Ribbons. Regular-size ribbons are 1 3/8 x 3/8 inches and miniatures are 11/16 x 3/8
inches. Affix ribbons to the uniform using a detachable, metal and plastic clip-on device. Keep ribbons
clean and unfrayed. ribbons will not have a visible protective coating.

As for the OP....go ahead and do what you want.  I hope it does not look like fecal matter.  As I pointed out in my original response....I think you would be better off just getting a new jacket.

[SarDragon]

Actually, Scotchguard isn't a "visible protective coating", just as it is not visible on treated upholstery or clothing fabric. I'm not endorsing its use, nor have I even experimented with the process, but it might have potential merits. I'll leave any empirical proof for others to perform.

[Eclipse]

Okay....I'll say it.

Local modifications are not allowed by 39-1. 

Just buy/get a new jacket.

As commented your interpretation on that is off - if that were true you would not be able to hem your pants, or adjust the fit on
a jacket, either.

A new Officer's Service Jacket is upwards of $150+ new - in many cases enlisted jackets are dirt cheap to free and rarely worn.

The risk here is fairly low, and at least around me the results have been excellent - you would never know unless you were told.