Initial Advanced Promotions on eServices

[lordmonar]

Well...higher headquarters can always make a regulation more restictive unless the regulations specifically otherwise.  So a Wing CC could say he is the promotion authroity for everyone in his wing if he wanted to and it is not involation of the regulation. 

It should be spelled out in a supplement approved by the next higher level.....but not always.

Now before you all flame me to hell and back.

I don't think the wing should be doing it.....but there you go.

[AirAux]

Consider yourself unflamed.. As we are in total agreement..

[ßτε]

Well...higher headquarters can always make a regulation more restictive unless the regulations specifically otherwise.  So a Wing CC could say he is the promotion authroity for everyone in his wing if he wanted to and it is not involation of the regulation. 

It should be spelled out in a supplement approved by the next higher level.....but not always.

Now before you all flame me to hell and back.

I don't think the wing should be doing it.....but there you go.

In general this would be true. But in this particular case the regulation states otherwise:

1-1. General. Criteria for promotion of CAP senior members will be applied uniformly throughout Civil Air Patrol. CAP unit supplements to this regulation in the form of publications or oral instructions that change the basic policies, criteria, procedures, and practices prescribed herein are prohibited.

[lordmonar]

Well...higher headquarters can always make a regulation more restictive unless the regulations specifically otherwise.  So a Wing CC could say he is the promotion authroity for everyone in his wing if he wanted to and it is not involation of the regulation. 

It should be spelled out in a supplement approved by the next higher level.....but not always.

Now before you all flame me to hell and back.

I don't think the wing should be doing it.....but there you go.

In general this would be true. But in this particular case the regulation states otherwise:

1-1. General. Criteria for promotion of CAP senior members will be applied uniformly throughout Civil Air Patrol. CAP unit supplements to this regulation in the form of publications or oral instructions that change the basic policies, criteria, procedures, and practices prescribed herein are prohibited.

Well now we get into interpetation......retaining approval athority for all special promotions at a particular level may not be intermped as change the othe "basic" policies, critera, porecedure and practices.

Again...I don't agree with it....but I can see why a wing commander may think that all special promtions need to go through him because of quality issues or abuse of the basic principles.

Such as allowing someone to be promoted to 1st Lt under the finance officer rules....when the individlual is not serving as a finance officer.

[Eclipse]

I was talking about the fact that Eclipse stated that some Wings and Regions have to approve certain promotions including "mission related skills" when in fact the Reg's leave that to the commander.. Eclipse has now modified or edited his post so it is no more..

My bad - sorry, however that is true.

[SarDragon]

I can see why a great many folks just take CAPTalk with a grain of salt.

Not everyone knows the regs inside and out, not everyone knows what parts are in what area, and what areas have things you'd never think to look there.

Do you just throw the book at people at meetings?

If you don't like the post, don't read it. Shut the window, move on. But everytime someone asks something on here it seems to turn into 72 moderators in a contest to see which one can shoot whoever down first, with the "look it up, let me google that for you, use the search function".

Not everyone thinks the same. Searching for stuff discussed based on thoughts is not all that fruitful in results sometimes.

now, FWIW, PhoenixCadet .. is fairly close to going Senior member, and was fairly instrumental in getting his current unit established.

Looks can be deceiving, stop judging every book by it's cover, and  every participant by their screen name.

The cover of each CAP Reg is not always fully indicative of what exactly is covered in that particular volume, and the index isn't always the most complete guide either.

I believe that I acknowledged that he asked a very good question and that the regs are very complicated (in my opinion).  I tried to ask my question in as respectful way that I could, however, evidently I failed.  I also stand corrected on Mr. Williams status in CAP.  I assumed something from his ID that I shouldn't have.  If I offended I apologize.

I don't think a2capt's rant was directed specifically at you. I know him personally, and we had a chat a w/e or two about just exactly this. IMHO, your post was just fine.

[PhoenixRisen]

Not all Cadet's experiences involve marching around in boxes for their time in CAP.  My past few years was spent (as a2capt mentioned) organizaing and coordinating the standing up of a new squadron at my high school.  We've had our charter for just a bit over a year, and ALL of our members (including senior members) were brand new.  (When we chartered, we only had 2.)  Even our commander is still learning the ropes, a year through his term.  Given that I've got almost 6 years in the program (more than all of our senior members combined), I've been taking the liberty and helping get stuff done on the senior member side, as well.

Aside from the help we received during the chartering process and a few small sessions with group staff officers, that's all the help we received. Period.  It's one thing to take command of a new organization and get it up and running, but it's an entirely new thing when you're new to the organization yourself (and aren't receiving the amount of help adequate to getting a new squadron started).  And I have to say, our senior members are doing one hell of a job.  We have some truly outstanding people in our squadron.

To those who answered my question, thank you.  I will be forwarding this info on ASAP.

[Major Carrales]

I am not a supporter of merely "throwing the regulations" at newbies, telling them to follow it without guidance, then brow beating them for misinterpreting the regulation.  That was done to me several times when I started out.  I was told "its all in the regs," then I followed the regs to the letter...then was practically dressed down by the same person who made the insipid statment to begin with.

Read this, and read this well, if you are a CAP Officer or Cadet with active meaningful experience you offer guidance to new people inspite of there being "another thread" on the subject or "its in the regs," or you are obliged to shut yourself off.

Regs can be interpreted to meaning anything if a person is cleaver enough to make it work or make sense.  Some times it is purposeful; sometimes it is accidental or based on an ignorance of CAP culture.

Everyone on here seems to be of the collective idea that we want to inprove CAP, however, when people come for help they are "dogpiled" and patronized.  That is unbecoming in my opinion and needs to be stopped.

[AirAux]

Right on, Sparky..

[Spike]

(When we chartered, we only had 2.)  Even our commander is still learning the ropes, a year through his term.  Given that I've got almost 6 years in the program (more than all of our senior members combined), I've been taking the liberty and helping get stuff done on the senior member side, as well.

You mean you started with two members?  I do not believe a charter can be granted until a certain minimum number of members are "members".   

[lordmonar]

(When we chartered, we only had 2.)  Even our commander is still learning the ropes, a year through his term.  Given that I've got almost 6 years in the program (more than all of our senior members combined), I've been taking the liberty and helping get stuff done on the senior member side, as well.

You mean you started with two members?  I do not believe a charter can be granted until a certain minimum number of members are "members".   

What you mean is....the regulations say that you need a certain amount of Seniors and Cadets before you can be chartered......but in practice I have seen National ignore this requirment.

[a2capt]

The unit did in fact get chartered with 2 senior members. As you say there, probably got ignored.

It was fixed shortly there after by the virtue of another joining right about the time an SUI was scheduled shortly after the unit creation, because the Group scheduled all the units in order to get it's own done, and it was realized that somehow it did in fact get chartered with two, vs. the required three and thus became a non-issue at the inspection time.

[PhoenixRisen]

You mean you started with two members?  I do not believe a charter can be granted until a certain minimum number of members are "members".   

We had two active SMs (brand new), and 10 cadets (myself, already in CAP, included).  There was one more (the son of our, then, group commander) who was inactive due to having been at the USAFA.  He was transferred to the roster just for numbers' sake.  Now, we're up to six active officers.