Not to sound like a broken record but can some explain to me what the exact purpose of having a CAP NCO corp is?  I didn't understand the purpose of the previous system (except there were a very small number of military NCOs that wanted to continue wearing their rank) and I don't understand the purpose of this new system.  Until a definite purpose is defined I do not see too many people wanting to be a CAP NCO.  As for these "adviser to the commander" type roles, what exactly is a CAP NCO going to advise the commander on that a CAP officer doesn't do today?

I understand that this is a new system and there are bugs to be worked out but usually when you build something you have a goal you are trying to reach.  You don't just build a building and then try to come up with a use for it.  You define the need for the building, create plans for a building to meet the stated need, and then build the building.

It seems for the CAP NCO Corps, the building is built and now we are trying to figure out if there is even a need for the building.

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=19795.0

Bottom line.

Several goals with the current system.

1.  To make the old system better by allowing promotion.
2.  To be able to better capture the leadership of former military NCOs.
3.  To position CAP to make changes to the officer corps.

That's it in a nut shell.

Are these new NCO positions going to be mandatory? If not, then what happens when a commander decides not to fill the position, thus impeding the next NCO promotion. If so, then what happens when a commander can't fill the position due to lack of qualified or suitable NCOs?

Are these positions going to have term limits? If not, then what prevents someone from being assigned to that position indefinitely, thus blocking the promotion of other NCOs? Why only one SNCO position per echelon? We can promote multiple Lt Cols in the squadron, but not multiple MSgts? I think this whole promotion system needs to be rethought.

Quote from: lordmonar on May 11, 2015, 04:16:34 PM
http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=19795.0

Bottom line.

Several goals with the current system.

1.  To make the old system better by allowing promotion.
2.  To be able to better capture the leadership of former military NCOs.
3.  To position CAP to make changes to the officer corps.

That's it in a nut shell.

Thanks for boiling it down.  I don't see where #1 is anything that betters CAP.  Concerning #2, I'm a current military NCO and I don't see how me being a CAP NCO would "better capture the leadership of former military NCOs."  If the thought is that more former NCOs would join CAP if they had the ability to get promoted within CAP I really don't see that happening.  I personally have not seen a CAP NCO in the wild in my 3 years in the program but I know a large number of former NCOs who are now CAP officers.

#3 I can see but a road map to those changes would be very beneficial and quite possibly reduce the talk and confusion that is occurring today.

Quote from: Storm Chaser on May 11, 2015, 04:26:27 PM
Are these new NCO positions going to be mandatory? If not, then what happens when a commander decides not to fill the position, thus impeding the next NCO promotion. If so, then what happens when a commander can't fill the position due to lack of qualified or suitable NCOs?

Are these positions going to have term limits? If not, then what prevents someone from being assigned to that position indefinitely, thus blocking the promotion of other NCOs? Why only one SNCO position per echelon? We can promote multiple Lt Cols in the squadron, but not multiple MSgts? I think this whole promotion system needs to be rethought.

It could be a sign of things to come on the officer side where there will be a time when there are not tons of Lt Cols in squadrons and promotions will be based on duty position.

Storm Chaser,


I'm one of the many who agree with you... about the dark blue background for the other sew-on badges, name tags, etc.

When CAP thought they were probably going to adopt the ABU, dark/navy bllue background was on the verge of being approved for sew-on rank. (and was it also maybe for name tags as well?)

Of course... right at the last minute this change was stopped, and in the new (2014) M39-1 you can still see some drawings of uniforms that left in the images of the ones with dark blue background.

Seeing how good these NCO stripes look on the BDU (and probably BBDU)... it would probably still be a good change to finish carrying through with in the future.  Even though its not for the ABU anymore... it appears to look very good and professional on the current BDU-type uniforms as well (and still allows us to look distinct from the Air Force... which is what they want).

The new CAP NCO stripes have turned out to look good.  This is a development I think that CAP can call a success.

This is What they look like on BBDUs

IMO the CAP cutouts should have stayed on the collar and off the stripes themselves.  I get it... you didn't want both...  The fade marks are particularly noticeable in MSgt Harris' pics.

Quote from: MIKE on May 12, 2015, 05:10:04 PM
IMO the CAP cutouts should have stayed on the collar and off the stripes themselves.  I get it... you didn't want both...  The fade marks are particularly noticeable in MSgt Harris' pics.

That's why this uniform is my spare spare uniform that sits in the bottom of my ES go bag.

My BDUs have a lot fade marks and glue from the old patches I took off too.  I just replaced my BDUs with a new set.

Quote from: MIKE on May 12, 2015, 05:10:04 PM
IMO the CAP cutouts should have stayed on the collar and off the stripes themselves.  I get it... you didn't want both...  The fade marks are particularly noticeable in MSgt Harris' pics.

If I was an NCO, I would welcome not having to put metal CAP cutouts on the collar of my Blues every time I wore them and the savings of not having to saw them on every BDU I own.

Quote from: Storm Chaser on May 12, 2015, 10:21:52 PM

Quote from: MIKE on May 12, 2015, 05:10:04 PM
IMO the CAP cutouts should have stayed on the collar and off the stripes themselves.  I get it... you didn't want both...  The fade marks are particularly noticeable in MSgt Harris' pics.

If I was an NCO, I would welcome not having to put metal CAP cutouts on the collar of my Blues every time I wore them and the savings of not having to saw them on every BDU I own.

I for one would like to learn this sawing technique.

Quote from: Starfleet Auxiliary on May 13, 2015, 04:27:54 AM

Quote from: Storm Chaser on May 12, 2015, 10:21:52 PM

Quote from: MIKE on May 12, 2015, 05:10:04 PM
IMO the CAP cutouts should have stayed on the collar and off the stripes themselves.  I get it... you didn't want both...  The fade marks are particularly noticeable in MSgt Harris' pics.

If I was an NCO, I would welcome not having to put metal CAP cutouts on the collar of my Blues every time I wore them and the savings of not having to saw them on every BDU I own.

I for one would like to learn this sawing technique.

Well, that depends on whether you use a hack saw, a rip saw, a crosscut saw, or a two-person buck saw.  I prefer souped up chain saws myself.

I think I just SAW enough of this topic.....

Not everyone can do it. I requires special skills.

Some the rank I've seen on SM, they may have used a saw. Maybe a block in Level 1 should be how to use a sewing machine. 

Yeah, cadets should learn how to sew too. I have seen some name tapes that look like they were sawed on. I wanted to be a fashion designer before I wanted to be a pilot, so I know how to sew. But sometimes when thread gets caught in my sewing machine I want to saw it in half.

Quote from: Mitchell 1969 on May 10, 2015, 06:38:06 AM

Quote from: ZigZag911 on May 10, 2015, 01:46:22 AM
We could follow the British army on this; they have "Company Sergeant Majors"... CAP could have Squadron/Group Sergeant Major positions...might aggravate US Army & USMC, but shouldn't bother USAF, they don't use the title!

Noooooo.....come on now, you KNOW what would happen....


"You can't use those titles. They aren't Air Force enough for you. But you can't use our titles- they are too Air Force for us  to let you use them."

Stand by for "Squadron Stripe Wearer," "Group Chevron Bearer" and "Wing Chevron Striper."

"Senior Member NCO Supervisor"

Quote from: lordmonar on May 11, 2015, 04:16:34 PM
http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=19795.0
2.  To be able to better capture the leadership of former military NCOs.

I'd be interested in hearing what you think the differences in our ability to capture the leadership of MSgt X, USAF if he becomes MSgt X, CAP instead of 2d Lt X, CAP.

Quote from: Tim Day on May 15, 2015, 02:22:24 PM

Quote from: lordmonar on May 11, 2015, 04:16:34 PM
http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=19795.0
2.  To be able to better capture the leadership of former military NCOs.

I'd be interested in hearing what you think the differences in our ability to capture the leadership of MSgt X, USAF if he becomes MSgt X, CAP instead of 2d Lt X, CAP.

  Oh, come on...  Isn't it obvious?!?   

Quote from: Tim Day on May 15, 2015, 02:22:24 PM

Quote from: lordmonar on May 11, 2015, 04:16:34 PM
http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=19795.0
2.  To be able to better capture the leadership of former military NCOs.

I'd be interested in hearing what you think the differences in our ability to capture the leadership of MSgt X, USAF if he becomes MSgt X, CAP instead of 2d Lt X, CAP.

I haven't seen much difference in my leadership abilities when I take off the SMSgt uniform and put on the CAP captain uniform.  I really don't think we will get a wave of former NCOs to join CAP now that there is the ability to get promoted within the NCO ranks.  The promotion issue did not factor at all in my decision to go the officer route.

Quote from: RogueLeader on April 22, 2015, 04:56:23 PM

Quote from: Storm Chaser on April 21, 2015, 12:17:06 PM

Quote from: shuman14 on April 20, 2015, 05:26:37 PM
Well if you're talking subdued on BDUs, then that makes much more sense, and I see the cost savings for sewing.

I also didn't know about the pins on the light blue shirt collars either.

Still, in full color, on the shirts, if the red prop/white circle chevrons had been adopted, that surely would have been enough to comply with the distinctive and low-light visible directive.

Sure, but that design didn't get adopted. And as I said before, some people don't like the current design, but others do. It's really a matter of opinion.

When I first saw the pictures of the new stripes, I did bot like them at all.  Now, after seeing them on an actual uniform (I have two NCO's in my unit, 1 SSgt and 1 CMSgt) they look strangely decent.

Anyone have an actual picture?