How do you read the requirement for Level IV that states "Serve as Director... or Yeager Award dated..."?
As I read the required regulation, sometimes I read it as counseling someone on getting their Yeager Award, sometimes as just that, having been awarded the Yeager. I know this question sounds silly as it is straightforward, but... I still have the question? From what I have also read in this board, I think it is the later, having been awarded the Yeager.
Thank you,
Flyer
The current Level 4 requirement is director or staff member of an approved activity AND one of the following: Yeager or AE project or presentation to a non-CAP group.
This changes next month, where the Yeager will be a requirement for Level 3.
Level 4 will require director or staff member of an approved activity AND one of the following: AE project or presentation to a non-CAP group.
Edit to attach PD chart effective 31 March.
EMT-83:
Great chart. A small correction is needed, though.
The TIG listed with regard to FO/TFO/SFO time is incorrect. TFO counts toward 1st Lt, not Capt. SFO counts toward Capt, not Maj. (FO counts toward 2d Lt, but isn't listed since it counts as SM time.)
See Figure 2 in CAPR 35-5.
Correct. You can't spend 3 years as SFO.
Quote from: SarDragon on February 22, 2013, 05:36:33 AM
Correct. You can't spend 3 years as SFO.
Sure you could...
Get your Spaatz Award before age 18. Go SM on your 18th Birthday (SFO). You'll get exactly 3 years as SFO.
Quote from: LGM30GMCC on February 22, 2013, 05:46:19 AM
Quote from: SarDragon on February 22, 2013, 05:36:33 AM
Correct. You can't spend 3 years as SFO.
Sure you could...
Get your Spaatz Award before age 18. Go SM on your 18th Birthday (SFO). You'll get exactly 3 years as SFO.
And none of it counts toward Maj.
Quote from: LGM30GMCC on February 22, 2013, 05:46:19 AM
Quote from: SarDragon on February 22, 2013, 05:36:33 AM
Correct. You can't spend 3 years as SFO.
Sure you could...
Get your Spaatz Award before age 18. Go SM on your 18th Birthday (SFO). You'll get exactly 3 years as SFO.
Given the processing time for the Form 12, no matter how quickly NHQ pumps it through, SFO can't happen that quickly. You're not a SM until it's gone through NHQ. Can't be a S/T/FO as a cadet.
There are other ways,
enlist in the military (and ship) at age 17 or whatever
I just noted something curious.... As I read CAPR 39-2, if you are a cadet under 18 and you get married (which is legal in most states), as soon as you have a marriage certificate, your cadet membership goes away and you are not eligible for senior membership. That's my interpretation. Am I reading it right?
No, you become a senior at 17. That's one of the exceptions.
Quote from: ßτε on February 22, 2013, 05:28:49 AM
EMT-83:
Great chart. A small correction is needed, though.
The TIG listed with regard to FO/TFO/SFO time is incorrect. TFO counts toward 1st Lt, not Capt. SFO counts toward Capt, not Maj. (FO counts toward 2d Lt, but isn't listed since it counts as SM time.)
See Figure 2 in CAPR 35-5.
Screwed that up, didn't I?
Here's an updated chart.
Quote from: GoneAway on February 22, 2013, 09:42:04 PM
I just noted something curious.... As I read CAPR 39-2, if you are a cadet under 18 and you get married (which is legal in most states), as soon as you have a marriage certificate, your cadet membership goes away and you are not eligible for senior membership. That's my interpretation. Am I reading it right?
You are not reading it right. Cadets who marry before their 18th birthday may remain cadets until they reach their 18th birthday. At that point, one of two things are supposed to happen. Either they submit a CAPF 12 with fingerprint card and join as a senior member, or the commander submits a CAPF 2b terminating the membership. Same choices if a cadet marries after their 18th birthday.
Quote from: SarDragon on February 22, 2013, 09:51:07 PM
No, you become a senior at 17. That's one of the exceptions.
I think you are confusing this with the exception for members of the AD military. There is no exception for married members under 18, since they can remain cadets until their 18th birthday.
Quote from: flyer333555 on February 21, 2013, 07:23:47 PM
How do you read the requirement for Level IV that states "Serve as Director... or Yeager Award dated..."?
As I read the required regulation, sometimes I read it as counseling someone on getting their Yeager Award, sometimes as just that, having been awarded the Yeager. I know this question sounds silly as it is straightforward, but... I still have the question? From what I have also read in this board, I think it is the later, having been awarded the Yeager.
Thank you,
Flyer
Where, exactly, did you find the wording you are referring to?
CAPR 50-17, Senior Member Professional Development Program pages 21-25...
Flyer
CAP REGULATION 50-17
28 DECEMBER 2012
Current Level III requirements:
CHAPTER 5–LEVEL III, MANAGEMENT
5-1. Management. CAP designed professional development at this level for senior members serving as squadron , group, or wing commanders and for staff officers. Criteria for completion of this level include:
a. Complete Level II training.
b. One year of experience in a command or staff position.
c. Attain the senior rating in any specialty track.
d. Attend two wing, region, or national conferences. These conferences afford CAP members a broad view of the CAP corporation's organization and expose them to the issues confronting CAP. Attendance at a region/wing aerospace education conference can also be credited for one conference attendance. Conferences attended prior to entry into Level III count toward fulfillment of this requirement.
e. Complete the Corporate Learning Course (CLC).
f. Earn the Brig General Charles E. "Chuck" Yeager Award. This requirement is effective 31 March 2013.
Current Level IV requirements:
CHAPTER 6–LEVEL IV, COMMAND AND STAFF
6 - 1. Command and Staff. CAP designed this level for members who desire to become high-level leaders in CAP. Criteria for completion of this level include:
a. Complete Level III professional development.
b. Attain a master rating in any specialty track.
c. Complete one of the following:
(1) Prepare and deliver a CAP-related presentation to a non-CAP group.
(2) Conduct a hands-on unit aerospace education program, or an external aerospace education classroom program.
d. Complete Region Staff College (RSC) or its approved PME equivalent (Attachment 2).
e. Occupy a command or staff position for a total of 2 years of service to CAP.
f. Serve in a director or staff member capacity in a CAP approved course or serve as a director or staff member of a national, region, or wing conference (reference Attachment 4).
So the $64 question is... if someone completed Level 3 under the current requirements (which do not include the Yeager), must he earn the Yeager before being awarded Level 4?
Another example of a poorly written regulation.
6F - was actually relaxed a few years ago, it used to be director only, which held a lot of people back.
Now just about anything you do in a training capacity counts.
Quote from: EMT-83 on February 23, 2013, 03:17:36 AM
So the $64 question is... if someone completed Level 3 under the current requirements (which do not include the Yeager), must he earn the Yeager before being awarded Level 4?
Another example of a poorly written regulation.
No. Done is done.
For what it's worth, Yeager takes about 15 minutes, and that assumes you stop for a coffee break.
Quote from: Eclipse on February 23, 2013, 03:19:31 AM
6F - was actually relaxed a few years ago, it used to be director only, which held a lot of people back.
Now just about anything you do in a training capacity counts.
YMMV. NER requires director-level participation.
Edit: Disregard, I was thinking Level 5.
^ They have a Supplement to 50-17 to that effect?
Level V requires Director level participation.
Quote from: SarDragon on February 23, 2013, 03:42:54 AM
Level V requires Director level participation.
CAPR 50-17, Page 26 Dated Dec 2012
"Complete Level IV.
b. Perform in a command or staff position for a total of 3 years of service to CAP.
c.
Serve in a director or staff member capacity in a CAP approved course (reference
Attachment 4). This staffing requirement is in addition to the staffing requirement found at
paragraph 6-1.
d. Attend National Staff College or complete its approved PME equivalent as listed in
Attachment 2.
e. Mentor a junior senior member officer, flight officer or NCO through the Technician
Rating in their specialty track (effective 31 March 2013)."
As I recall this was relaxed at the same time (2009) as Level IV.
Level V used to require director level participation.
Well hush ma mouf!
I posted it, and still screwed it up. Shoot me. :(
Supplement or not, if you submit being a staff member for SLS for your Level 5, it won't get approved.
I've specifically been told director level. Personally, I agree. Level 5 should required a bit more effort than a half-hour of Death by PowerPoint.
Quote from: EMT-83 on February 23, 2013, 01:28:03 PM
Supplement or not, if you submit being a staff member for SLS for your Level 5, it won't get approved.
Just like other polices of this nature, that's clearly not allowed. The regulation is very specific in this regard,
lists a page full of situations it accepts, and my understanding is that the intent of relaxing the requirement
was specifically because directorships for these kinds of activities, in many wings, are few and far between,
thus causing an unfair gateway to Level V for members.
Maybe it's a test - by Level V a member should know enough about CAP to understand how these things work, and
where and when a wing is allowed to add requirements (which is almost never).
We can argue all day long about the subjective nature of "fit" or "ready" for promotion, but the PD levels >are<
automatic ticket punches based on work done. Substantiate and approve. There's not supposed to be anything subjective
about it because all the work done or required is already tracked or approved elsewhere.
Quote from: EMT-83 on February 22, 2013, 10:08:22 PM
Quote from: ßτε on February 22, 2013, 05:28:49 AM
EMT-83:
Great chart. A small correction is needed, though.
The TIG listed with regard to FO/TFO/SFO time is incorrect. TFO counts toward 1st Lt, not Capt. SFO counts toward Capt, not Maj. (FO counts toward 2d Lt, but isn't listed since it counts as SM time.)
See Figure 2 in CAPR 35-5.
Screwed that up, didn't I?
Here's an updated chart.
Flight Officer requires 3 months not 6 like 2LT
Quote from: SarDragon on February 23, 2013, 09:02:41 AM
Well hush ma mouf!
I posted it, and still screwed it up. Shoot me. :(
Okay, go stand against that wall over there. >:D
Quote from: PHall on February 24, 2013, 03:06:25 PM
Quote from: SarDragon on February 23, 2013, 09:02:41 AM
Well hush ma mouf!
I posted it, and still screwed it up. Shoot me. :(
Okay, go stand against that wall over there. >:D
Ready... Aim... Shoot, out of ammo.
Quote from: GroundHawg on February 24, 2013, 02:04:48 PM
Quote from: EMT-83 on February 22, 2013, 10:08:22 PM
Quote from: ßτε on February 22, 2013, 05:28:49 AM
EMT-83:
Great chart. A small correction is needed, though.
The TIG listed with regard to FO/TFO/SFO time is incorrect. TFO counts toward 1st Lt, not Capt. SFO counts toward Capt, not Maj. (FO counts toward 2d Lt, but isn't listed since it counts as SM time.)
See Figure 2 in CAPR 35-5.
Screwed that up, didn't I?
Here's an updated chart.
Flight Officer requires 3 months not 6 like 2LT
Six months from FO to TFO. Sorry, only so much text will fit in the little box.
Quote from: RogueLeader on February 25, 2013, 12:41:29 AM
Quote from: PHall on February 24, 2013, 03:06:25 PM
Quote from: SarDragon on February 23, 2013, 09:02:41 AM
Well hush ma mouf!
I posted it, and still screwed it up. Shoot me. :(
Okay, go stand against that wall over there. >:D
Ready... Aim... Shoot, out of ammo.
I thought our motto was "Ready...Fire...Aim"
The theory for CGOs for the USAF is that 2d Lt's and 1st Lt's are primarily technical experts and leading small teams (SFG and MXG types somewhat excluded.) Those with lots of people will generally have an SNCO to work with to help them with that, but your primary job your first 3.5 years or so is to become a technical expert. You are eligible for SOS when you are selected for Captain, about 6 months out. Captains start to work as staff officers or flight commanders (Flt/CC is generally a Capt billet). At this point they are starting to move from personal interactions issues to a bit of operational guidance/change for the organizations.
As for the college degrees, who knows why they have that as a requirement. That's a decision that I am sure makes some kind of sense at the O-6 or higher level. I try not to worry about those types of things too very much.
Quote from: EMT-83 on February 22, 2013, 10:08:22 PM
Quote from: ßτε on February 22, 2013, 05:28:49 AM
EMT-83:
Great chart. A small correction is needed, though.
The TIG listed with regard to FO/TFO/SFO time is incorrect. TFO counts toward 1st Lt, not Capt. SFO counts toward Capt, not Maj. (FO counts toward 2d Lt, but isn't listed since it counts as SM time.)
See Figure 2 in CAPR 35-5.
Screwed that up, didn't I?
Here's an updated chart.
Just FYI...I'm stealing this chart for tonight's meeting. Thanks for the help!!! :clap: