CAP Talk

General Discussion => Membership => Topic started by: old141pilot on December 06, 2012, 08:56:52 AM

Title: How Long to Process Transfer Active to Patron Status
Post by: old141pilot on December 06, 2012, 08:56:52 AM
I applied to be transferred from Active status to Patron status the beginning of September 2012.  I was removed from my squadron duty positions the beginning of October 2012.  So I assume that the squadron approved the request in at that time.  According to eServices, I am still fully qualified and an active member of the squadron.  I have been maintaing monthly safety currency so the squadron will not get their knuckles rapped during the next SUI.  It seems like my transfer to Patron status should have been accomplished by now.  Any idea how long this typically takes?  Thanks.
Title: Re: How Long to Process Transfer Active to Patron Status
Post by: SARDOC on December 06, 2012, 01:57:37 PM
Once I submit the form directly to National Headquarters...it usually takes between 24-48 hours.  It's usually just whenever someone at National Headquarters checks their email.
Title: Re: How Long to Process Transfer Active to Patron Status
Post by: SaBeR33 on December 15, 2012, 08:29:50 PM
Can I piggyback on your post, quietbirdman? I'm considering transferring to patron status simply because I don't have time to be that active anymore with both school and work requirements, as well as doing so at my Deputy Commander for Senior's request because I haven't been active in so long. However, neither the DCS nor my squadron's PD officer seems to know whether or not I would lose my technician rating in any of the specialty tracks that I've already been awarded or if the clock on either/or my time-in-grade (TIG) and time-in-service (TIS) would halt once my status is changed. Mind you I'm not exactly concerned about being promoted anytime soon, so that really isn't a concern, but it would be nice to know. Does anyone here have an answer to my questions concerning ratings, and TIG or TIS?
Title: Re: How Long to Process Transfer Active to Patron Status
Post by: Luis R. Ramos on December 15, 2012, 09:05:13 PM
Anything you have achieved such as Level I, Level II, Technician or Senior on study tracks will still be available if you transfer back from Patron to active. Not so on the grade. You lose this and will have to go back on TIG anew.

I am still a 1st Lt despite 12 years in CAP. Because of my breaks, my TIG goes back to 0.

Joined 1985-1987. Made First Lt.

Break 1987-1996.

Re-joined 1996-2004. Started again as SM, made 1st Lt, could not finish Level II because of ECI 13.

Break 2004-2011.

Re-joined 2011. Started again as SM, when I passed Officer Basic Course I still was not able to get Captain because the "powers that be" decided I had to start TIG at 0. That means, I have been a 1st Lt for about four or five years. And I have seen on this board a few experienced members state so, that they would not accept TIG on a previous grade if that person had a break in service using different words.

Members which I processed as Personnel Officer are now Colonels and Lt Colonels. So are members I served with as a Lieutenant.

It is a case of deja vu finding old documents I signed while working for the previous squadron and Group.

TIS may be accepted by your new commander but he is not obligated to. In other words, it is a chance you take. In my case, the squadron commander when I re-joined knew me when I was an Lt before.

It is embarrassing, a bit.

What is worse, is that all my ES qualifications expired. Which I am taking care off, little by little. I have MSA and MRO now, and pretty soon I will be trainee for both GTM3 and UDF.

Despite the 10 missions and 15 SAREX and other training done 1997-2004. The Find, and Sept 11 work. Not worth now for my ES quals...

Flyer
Title: Re: How Long to Process Transfer Active to Patron Status
Post by: ßτε on December 15, 2012, 09:16:31 PM
The above post is incorrect about losing your grade when you come back to active status from reserve/patron status. Your grade, date of grade, and date of service are maintained in your eServices record. You do not lose any of them. This is one of the advantages to changing to reserve/patron status as opposed to letting your membership lapse. Once you return to active status, it will be difficult to tell from your eServices record that you were even a reserve/patron status member.

ES quals will expire while your are on reserve/patron status.
Title: Re: How Long to Process Transfer Active to Patron Status
Post by: Luis R. Ramos on December 15, 2012, 09:20:45 PM
If you are referring to my post, it is correct.

You do not come at the grade you had if the break is more than two years. You come as Senior Member, per regulations. You can request reinstatement of grade, but it is not automatic. It is at the commanders pleasure. Otherwise I would have made Captain by now.

Reread the regulations regarding senior members.

Flyer
Title: Re: How Long to Process Transfer Active to Patron Status
Post by: arajca on December 15, 2012, 09:21:14 PM
If you can document TIS, they should accept it, at least for the RSR. Now, how to document it...

PAs are good, as are membership cards. National MAY have your information on file as well. We had a gentleman rejoin after ten years off and National gave him back his old CAPID and upload all the records they had for him.

ES quals expire after three years, so no joy there.
Title: Re: How Long to Process Transfer Active to Patron Status
Post by: Al Sayre on December 15, 2012, 09:22:09 PM
Good reason to keep your own copy of your service record...
Title: Re: How Long to Process Transfer Active to Patron Status
Post by: ßτε on December 15, 2012, 09:24:10 PM
Quote from: flyer333555 on December 15, 2012, 09:20:45 PM
If you are referring to my post, it is correct.

You do not come at the grade you had if the break is more than two years. You come as Senior Member, per regulations. You can request reinstatement of grade, but it is not automatic. It is at the commanders pleasure.

Reread the regulations regarding senior members.

Flyer
But there is no break in membership during reserve/patron status. Your situation is different than what was asked. You let your membership lapse and did not transfer to reserve/patron status.
Title: Re: How Long to Process Transfer Active to Patron Status
Post by: Eclipse on December 15, 2012, 09:25:03 PM
Patron membership freezes grade at the time of transfer.  No reinstatement of grade is necessary, since it is never removed.

Patron members still appear as "members" in the unit's lists, they are just limited as per expectations and participation.

No decorations, grade, PD levels, or similar, are lost when someone goes to Patron status.

Title: Re: How Long to Process Transfer Active to Patron Status
Post by: Luis R. Ramos on December 15, 2012, 09:32:42 PM
Chomp, chomp.

That is the sound of me eating my words.

I agree with the posts after my initial post.

Grade should not be lost as mine was. You continue being a member in the Patron status, you should not lose your grade nor your study track achievements. Be sure you document them in paper.

However any ES qualifications will expire.

Flyer
Title: Re: How Long to Process Transfer Active to Patron Status
Post by: Camas on December 15, 2012, 10:51:25 PM
Quote from: flyer333555 on December 15, 2012, 09:05:13 PM
Anything you have achieved such as Level I, Level II, Technician or Senior on study tracks will still be available if you transfer back from Patron to active. Not so on the grade. You lose this and will have to go back on TIG anew.
You retain the last grade held prior to entering patron status. Re: CAPR39-2 Para 3-1b(1)(d)
Title: Re: How Long to Process Transfer Active to Patron Status
Post by: Sapper168 on December 16, 2012, 12:06:31 AM
And chances are the same edition of uniform manual you used before your patron status will still be in use when you become active again  :angel: 8) :P .....
Title: Re: How Long to Process Transfer Active to Patron Status
Post by: a2capt on December 16, 2012, 12:58:49 AM
Yup, Patron status is almost like Han Solo in carbonite.
Title: Re: How Long to Process Transfer Active to Patron Status
Post by: SaBeR33 on December 16, 2012, 02:54:14 AM
Thanks for all of the responses!  :clap: Why no one at my squadron could answer theses questions--or sought out the answers to provide to me within a reasonable amount of time--doesn't give me a great deal of confidence in knowing they're looking out for their members. :(
Title: Re: How Long to Process Transfer Active to Patron Status
Post by: EMT-83 on December 16, 2012, 03:46:04 AM
Well, you could have looked it up yourself. It's not like you need to know a secret handshake or something in order to read the regulations or check the Knowledgebase.
Title: Re: How Long to Process Transfer Active to Patron Status
Post by: SaBeR33 on December 16, 2012, 05:45:19 PM
Quote from: EMT-83 on December 16, 2012, 03:46:04 AM
Well, you could have looked it up yourself. It's not like you need to know a secret handshake or something in order to read the regulations or check the Knowledgebase.

Yeah, I know. But that sounds too much like work--something I have enough of these days to keep me busier than I care to be. :P
Title: Re: How Long to Process Transfer Active to Patron Status
Post by: Luis R. Ramos on December 16, 2012, 05:57:59 PM
I am sorry for restating the obvious.

No one at your squadron knew the answers, because they have the same attitude you just showed when you answered last message.

QuoteBut that sounds too much like work...

They are appointed to the position, and everyone states that learning their jobs "sounds too much like work" so no one learns what is it they are supposed to know.

Flyer
Title: Re: How Long to Process Transfer Active to Patron Status
Post by: a2capt on December 16, 2012, 06:53:51 PM
..which borks me something fierce. "Because XXX said .. ". I read the regulations. It's not hard. There's a pretty simple file plan for it.

I will say, I find that most of these answers seem to originate from the older members who are pre-information age and "search and replace" means unscrewing the threads on the big binder and flipping pages.

Once you get past a little learning curve of lingo, it's pretty darn easy to use modern convinces to search that data for what you need. Google searching just capmembers.com even, will get you excellent results. Or keep the files all locally (you should be doing that anyway) and using the search/indexing features of your own computer. All the modern OS environments have something.
Title: Re: How Long to Process Transfer Active to Patron Status
Post by: SaBeR33 on December 16, 2012, 07:24:13 PM
Quote from: flyer333555 on December 16, 2012, 05:57:59 PM
I am sorry for restating the obvious.

No one at your squadron knew the answers, because they have the same attitude you just showed when you answered last message.

QuoteBut that sounds too much like work...

They are appointed to the position, and everyone states that learning their jobs "sounds too much like work" so no one learns what is it they are supposed to know.

Flyer

I guess I forgot to include the sarcasm disclaimer with my post so you understood where I was coming from not to mention what I wrote in my post that was previous to the one you quoted. Since it was someone within my squadron's CoC who suggested I transfer to patron status (who was about to submit the request in eServices prior to my consent) that person should have already had a basic idea of what transferring would do to my future progression within CAP or at least have gotten back to me with an answer. That was six months ago and I still haven't received an answer from this person. And yes, I'm quite capable of checking the regulations, but most of us know from prior experiences the regs aren't always written in the most unambiguous manner. Since we have many experienced members here who know the regs very well I figured I could get an answer quicker by piggybacking on another member's question that pertained to the same general question. And for the record, when I was active in cadet programs, if I didn't know the answer I would do the best I could to get the correct answer ASAP using whatever resources were available.
Title: Re: How Long to Process Transfer Active to Patron Status
Post by: Eclipse on December 16, 2012, 07:30:59 PM
Someone was going to push you to patron without your consent?
Title: Re: How Long to Process Transfer Active to Patron Status
Post by: SaBeR33 on December 16, 2012, 08:31:57 PM
Eclipse,

Essentially, yes, because I haven't been active in the squadron in over a year even though the PD officer (and a few others in the CoC) knows why I haven't been to meetings since I've spoken to her about it on a few occasions when I've seen her at work.

I've been trying to return to active status and even registered to attend the National Conference held this summer in Baltimore, but my health took a big hit that also caused me to fall way behind on my homework (I barely passed the class because of it). I also missed the last two Wing conferences--ones that I had registered for--due to health issues, health issues that are the reason I have a 50% service-connected, VA disability rating that may soon be increased due to my health worsening. If I cannot eventually return to active status in CAP due to what I've been contending with for many years now I may just let my membership lapse next year. It sucks, but it's something I'll have to seriously consider even after 22 years of (predominantly active) service.  :'(
Title: Re: How Long to Process Transfer Active to Patron Status
Post by: Luis R. Ramos on December 16, 2012, 10:08:10 PM
Man, that sucks!

Sorry I did not get the sarcasm. I fail those little nuances. It may be that English is not my original language. I think I speak good English, as those whose English is their first language do tell me they have no problem understanding me. I do have an accent. I see it in the face of some students I teach, they start smiling. Others are worse. They say "I do not understand Spanish" even though I am speaking to them in English.

From your message I think you stated you served AD. Thank you very much for that service.

Take care

Flyer