I work with the cadet program and throughly enjoy my time with them for the most part.
One of my big issues is with parents who show up late to pick their cadet. We have lives beyond CAP and need parents to be responsible and on time.
What is the best way to deal with late parents?
Thanks All!! :o
Here's a similar thread: http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=15613.0 (http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=15613.0)
Quote from: SarDragon on September 26, 2012, 07:48:58 AM
Here's a similar thread: http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=15613.0 (http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=15613.0)
This is more about dealing with parents being late and dealing with the parents directly versus the cadet. I of course mention the problem of being late to the cadet in a nice way. I realize that this is not their fault unless they didn't tell the parents to be there on time.
If it happens more than once or twice, I usually make sure that they know I live 50 miles away and have to get up at 0430 to go to work at my regular job. It's hard to do that if I have to wait around an extra hour for them to pick up their cadet...
Suck 'em in. Get 'em to join. Then they won' t be late, ... they'll be part of the reason you leave late .. trying to get everyone else out first! ;)
Stuff happens, but you have to be direct that we aren't baby sitters.
I don't think I've ever left a unit meeting on time, but that's because there's other work to do, not sit and mind a cadet with nothing to do.
Fool me once, etc...
Maybe it's a case of "I guess it's OK that we pick Charlie up late because no one has ever said anything about it"?
I'd probably send a note home with the cadets, something to the effect that meetings are over at 2100, and we need to vacate the facility NLT 2130 due to "security reasons" or whatever. Parents rarely argue with "security reasons". :P
I guess I'm going to go with "It depends". If Mom is a space cadet and can't remember to turn off Oprah or the View in time to pick up Johnny, I am going to be less tolerant. If Mom is a single working mother who is busting her butt working two jobs to try and give her kids a good life and trying to scrape together enough so Johnny can be in CAP, I ain't gonna say a thing.
Most schools will charge for a late pickup of kids.
Quote from: a2capt on September 26, 2012, 05:27:43 PM
Suck 'em in. Get 'em to join. Then they won' t be late, ... they'll be part of the reason you leave late .. trying to get everyone else out first! ;)
I dont want to be late..... Long day!! Time to go home!!
Quote from: Garibaldi on September 26, 2012, 05:47:45 PM
Maybe it's a case of "I guess it's OK that we pick Charlie up late because no one has ever said anything about it"?
I'd probably send a note home with the cadets, something to the effect that meetings are over at 2100, and we need to vacate the facility NLT 2130 due to "security reasons" or whatever. Parents rarely argue with "security reasons". :P
I would be lying...............
Quote from: ol'fido on September 26, 2012, 06:00:08 PM
I guess I'm going to go with "It depends". If Mom is a space cadet and can't remember to turn off Oprah or the View in time to pick up Johnny, I am going to be less tolerant. If Mom is a single working mother who is busting her butt working two jobs to try and give her kids a good life and trying to scrape together enough so Johnny can be in CAP, I ain't gonna say a thing.
Hate to be insensitive but...... My wife doesn't care about the other mom. She wants her child home to feed and put to bed on time.
Make arrangements for your child and don't rely on me to remind you to do what your supposed too......
Just sayen......
Deal with it instantly when Mom or Dad arrives. "Sir/Ma'am, we dismissed 30 minutes ago and you're late." If you're standing at your car in the parking lot when they pull in, all the better.
If they have work schedule problems, it's just plain rude on their part to not make arrangements. Maybe someone could stay later, if asked. Remember, people will only take advantage of you if you let them.
Quote from: PilotMan on September 27, 2012, 01:10:14 AM
Quote from: Garibaldi on September 26, 2012, 05:47:45 PM
Maybe it's a case of "I guess it's OK that we pick Charlie up late because no one has ever said anything about it"?
I'd probably send a note home with the cadets, something to the effect that meetings are over at 2100, and we need to vacate the facility NLT 2130 due to "security reasons" or whatever. Parents rarely argue with "security reasons". :P
I would be lying...............
Security reasons as in "I have a life and the next time you show up late to pick up your kid no one is going to be there to watch over him, don't blame me, I don't get paid to be a babysitter after 2100 when the meeting ends."
The Local school districts here for kids that stay after for extracurricular activities, give the parents two written warnings for anything over thirty minutes and on the Third Offense they contact the Police Department and have the Police explain it to the Parents.
I know that doesn't really help you. I just thought it was interesting.
Just tell them like they do after the Jungle Cruise ride at Disneyland...If you leave your kid behind we send them to be a character in "It's a small world."
It's A Small World ride at Magic Kingdom (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W83dDWlPYXU#)
There are times when parents may not be at fault for being late to pick up their child. I am reminded of two instances when my son was a cadet that were out of my control. Why do I say that? Well because of the incredibly poor directions I was given to go get him. The first was at a place I can best describe as you can't get there from here in the heart of Florida. There was no CAP van to transport cadets from the Tampa area, so parents, granted there were very few of us at that time that sent our kids to wing events, had to do their own transport. On the way there, he was taken by another family but on the way back, I had to go get him. The directions were vague to say the least and there were no phone numbers of sm's to contact. I stopped several times asking how to get to this facility and got very conflicting info. So from the time I got to the general area at noon stopped for lunch and directions to when I finally arrived nearly 5 hours later, I was frazzled to say the least,n't it was getting dark and I had no clue where I was. Finally, I received a phone call from a sm who guided me to the place. The up shot is that those I asked directions from didn't even know it was one town over.
The second time was again a wing event on the east coast, I had my son write down the turns we took with landmarks for me as we went to the event. I used them for the next weekend to go get him. What I did't realize was that most of the turns had the same landmarks that we used. I made a turn way too early, and instead of ending up near Satellite Beach was closer to Titusville, quite a ways way. Top it off there was construction all the way south with many confusing detours. Finally, I arrived but missed the luncheon to honor the 6 graduates of the course and earning me the reputation of not someone who will arrive on time. It to some degree had an effect on how others perceived my son also. Not fair to either of us when directions are poor and no contact numbers are given. You can bet that as soon as GPS became available for the general public, I got one.
Just saying, it isn't always the way you think it may be.
Quote from: spaatzmom on September 27, 2012, 06:06:15 PM
There are times when parents may not be at fault for being late to pick up their child. I am reminded of two instances when my son was a cadet that were out of my control. Why do I say that? Well because of the incredibly poor directions I was given to go get him. The first was at a place I can best describe as you can't get there from here in the heart of Florida. There was no CAP van to transport cadets from the Tampa area, so parents, granted there were very few of us at that time that sent our kids to wing events, had to do their own transport. On the way there, he was taken by another family but on the way back, I had to go get him. The directions were vague to say the least and there were no phone numbers of sm's to contact. I stopped several times asking how to get to this facility and got very conflicting info. So from the time I got to the general area at noon stopped for lunch and directions to when I finally arrived nearly 5 hours later, I was frazzled to say the least,n't it was getting dark and I had no clue where I was. Finally, I received a phone call from a sm who guided me to the place. The up shot is that those I asked directions from didn't even know it was one town over.
The second time was again a wing event on the east coast, I had my son write down the turns we took with landmarks for me as we went to the event. I used them for the next weekend to go get him. What I did't realize was that most of the turns had the same landmarks that we used. I made a turn way too early, and instead of ending up near Satellite Beach was closer to Titusville, quite a ways way. Top it off there was construction all the way south with many confusing detours. Finally, I arrived but missed the luncheon to honor the 6 graduates of the course and earning me the reputation of not someone who will arrive on time. It to some degree had an effect on how others perceived my son also. Not fair to either of us when directions are poor and no contact numbers are given. You can bet that as soon as GPS became available for the general public, I got one.
Just saying, it isn't always the way you think it may be.
Once or twice is excusable, even forgivable, but when it's chronic, that throws EVERYONE out of whack. Someone HAS to stay until the last cadet goes home, at least that's the way it's been in our unit. No cadet left behind and all that. But like I said, if it's an ongoing thing, people will start to think that it's OK to be late, someone will watch Johnny til I get there. And that's BS. We're not babysitters once the meeting is over. Pick up your cadet on time, and if you can't for whatever reason, they have a piece of paper that says "Meeting ends at 2100. Please have your child picked up no later than 2130" and make it for whatever reason you feel comfortable giving.
Maybe have a meeting with the parents before the meeting stressing the importance of timeliness as part of their cadet's career. Being on time is a big part of CAP because if I say "we're leaving at 1800 hours, please be here at 1730" and I'm still waiting on one cadet at 1815, I leave a note on the door saying so sorry, we told you to be here 45 minutes ago, we had to leave to be where we had to be on time. If I don't get a phone call saying "Sorry, we're running a hair late can you wait?" then I assume they don't care about being at that activity enough to show up on time.
Quote from: Garibaldi on September 27, 2012, 07:24:14 PM
Quote from: spaatzmom on September 27, 2012, 06:06:15 PM
There are times when parents may not be at fault for being late to pick up their child. I am reminded of two instances when my son was a cadet that were out of my control. Why do I say that? Well because of the incredibly poor directions I was given to go get him. The first was at a place I can best describe as you can't get there from here in the heart of Florida. There was no CAP van to transport cadets from the Tampa area, so parents, granted there were very few of us at that time that sent our kids to wing events, had to do their own transport. On the way there, he was taken by another family but on the way back, I had to go get him. The directions were vague to say the least and there were no phone numbers of sm's to contact. I stopped several times asking how to get to this facility and got very conflicting info. So from the time I got to the general area at noon stopped for lunch and directions to when I finally arrived nearly 5 hours later, I was frazzled to say the least,n't it was getting dark and I had no clue where I was. Finally, I received a phone call from a sm who guided me to the place. The up shot is that those I asked directions from didn't even know it was one town over.
The second time was again a wing event on the east coast, I had my son write down the turns we took with landmarks for me as we went to the event. I used them for the next weekend to go get him. What I did't realize was that most of the turns had the same landmarks that we used. I made a turn way too early, and instead of ending up near Satellite Beach was closer to Titusville, quite a ways way. Top it off there was construction all the way south with many confusing detours. Finally, I arrived but missed the luncheon to honor the 6 graduates of the course and earning me the reputation of not someone who will arrive on time. It to some degree had an effect on how others perceived my son also. Not fair to either of us when directions are poor and no contact numbers are given. You can bet that as soon as GPS became available for the general public, I got one.
Just saying, it isn't always the way you think it may be.
Once or twice is excusable, even forgivable, but when it's chronic, that throws EVERYONE out of whack. Someone HAS to stay until the last cadet goes home, at least that's the way it's been in our unit. No cadet left behind and all that. But like I said, if it's an ongoing thing, people will start to think that it's OK to be late, someone will watch Johnny til I get there. And that's BS. We're not babysitters once the meeting is over. Pick up your cadet on time, and if you can't for whatever reason, they have a piece of paper that says "Meeting ends at 2100. Please have your child picked up no later than 2130" and make it for whatever reason you feel comfortable giving.
Maybe have a meeting with the parents before the meeting stressing the importance of timeliness as part of their cadet's career. Being on time is a big part of CAP because if I say "we're leaving at 1800 hours, please be here at 1730" and I'm still waiting on one cadet at 1815, I leave a note on the door saying so sorry, we told you to be here 45 minutes ago, we had to leave to be where we had to be on time. If I don't get a phone call saying "Sorry, we're running a hair late can you wait?" then I assume they don't care about being at that activity enough to show up on time.
While I agree with you whole heartedly, I was giving you two examples that were not I hope the norm. Poor directions and no contact info given to the cadet for an event that was several hundred miles away from the home unit. Had I had contact info, for the first event, I would have been there well before the time of pick up by hours. But alas that was not to be and stopping to ask for directions was futile as no one asked even knew the state facility was in the next town over. Again poor directions and no contact info for the second led to a close call of missing the entire graduation but it did put me way out of my way from where I was supposed to be. These were not the typical local squadron events, they were wing level events. Thankfully since then contact info has been provided to parents for wing events. I was trying to make others aware that it is not always the parent who is at fault.
Quote from: spaatzmom on September 27, 2012, 09:41:42 PM
While I agree with you whole heartedly, I was giving you two examples that were not I hope the norm. Poor directions and no contact info given to the cadet for an event that was several hundred miles away from the home unit. Had I had contact info, for the first event, I would have been there well before the time of pick up by hours. But alas that was not to be and stopping to ask for directions was futile as no one asked even knew the state facility was in the next town over. Again poor directions and no contact info for the second led to a close call of missing the entire graduation but it did put me way out of my way from where I was supposed to be. These were not the typical local squadron events, they were wing level events. Thankfully since then contact info has been provided to parents for wing events. I was trying to make others aware that it is not always the parent who is at fault.
That wasn't the original intent of the OP. He was venting on parents who continually and habitually show up late to pick up their cadets. Obviously, there are extenuating circumstances that we can excuse (worked late unexpectedly, flat tire, sick child not in CAP, etc) but to the parents that habitually show up 30-45 minutes late KNOWING when the meeting ends and not offering any sort of excuse or apology, up with this we will not put.
Also, I have a feeling, based on experience, that some of the cadets aren't telling their parents the whole story. A lot of younger kids are wishy-washy with giving information out, and I haven't figured out why. I had one cadet a long time ago who didn't tell his parents what time to pick him up from an activity 90 miles from his home unit. We were stuck trying to shoehorn him into an already fully packed van so we could vacate the location AND try to get hold of his parents to meet us to come get him. He kept giving us phone numbers that he "thought" was his parent's cell or home, or his grandparent's. None of them worked. Finally, we were able to get hold of his unit CC who met us and took him home.
So, yeah.
Quote from: Garibaldi on September 27, 2012, 10:45:58 PM
Quote from: spaatzmom on September 27, 2012, 09:41:42 PM
While I agree with you whole heartedly, I was giving you two examples that were not I hope the norm. Poor directions and no contact info given to the cadet for an event that was several hundred miles away from the home unit. Had I had contact info, for the first event, I would have been there well before the time of pick up by hours. But alas that was not to be and stopping to ask for directions was futile as no one asked even knew the state facility was in the next town over. Again poor directions and no contact info for the second led to a close call of missing the entire graduation but it did put me way out of my way from where I was supposed to be. These were not the typical local squadron events, they were wing level events. Thankfully since then contact info has been provided to parents for wing events. I was trying to make others aware that it is not always the parent who is at fault.
That wasn't the original intent of the OP. He was venting on parents who continually and habitually show up late to pick up their cadets. Obviously, there are extenuating circumstances that we can excuse (worked late unexpectedly, flat tire, sick child not in CAP, etc) but to the parents that habitually show up 30-45 minutes late KNOWING when the meeting ends and not offering any sort of excuse or apology, up with this we will not put.
Also, I have a feeling, based on experience, that some of the cadets aren't telling their parents the whole story. A lot of younger kids are wishy-washy with giving information out, and I haven't figured out why. I had one cadet a long time ago who didn't tell his parents what time to pick him up from an activity 90 miles from his home unit. We were stuck trying to shoehorn him into an already fully packed van so we could vacate the location AND try to get hold of his parents to meet us to come get him. He kept giving us phone numbers that he "thought" was his parent's cell or home, or his grandparent's. None of them worked. Finally, we were able to get hold of his unit CC who met us and took him home.
So, yeah.
I work with the cadet program and throughly enjoy my time with them for the most part.
One of my big issues is with parents who show up late to pick their cadet. We have lives beyond CAP and need parents to be responsible and on time.
What is the best way to deal with late parents?
Thanks All!! In no way does he have such a limited implication of home unit meetings. There are always at minimum 2 sides to every story and in some 3 or 4. Those putting on the event do have a responsibility in giving accurate directions and emergency contact info to the member and parent. The member also has a responsibility to give those running the event/meeting accurate emergency contact info. There was a time when everyone had to show a form I think it was 60(emergency info form) to get into any event at least in Fl and have one on their person. Again, just saying or at the very least trying to get some to not only think outside the box but actually get out of the box and look around before squarely laying blame on one part of the equation.
I think that a lot of these issues would be solved if our members would just communicate with parents from day one. For some reason, all the units I've ever joined do the absolute minimum in talking with parents about CAP stuff. There are units who don't even take the time to meet the parents once, not even when the cadet is joining or still interested. They just get dropped off, and voila, we make them a cadet.
This type of stuff is fixed with open communication. When the perspective cadet comes in without a parent, let them know that you need to talk to their parent. Tell the parent what types of expectations cadets have - including punctuality, both in showing up and being picked up. Tell them where to find a calendar of events (if you don't have one, make one). Send out messages about upcoming events with details about where and when to meet and get picked up. When the parents come to pick up their kids, have someone out there that can give a quick "hello" each week, or encourage the parents to come in and get them. In my experience, parents appreciate communication about what is going on, and we usually don't provide it, or at least not effectively. Also, if you're expecting the parents to be on time, end your meeting on time. Nothing is more aggravating than telling someone that the meeting ends at 2030, and everyone is dismissed at 2100. If we can't be on time, why are we expecting parents to be?
Sure, some still aren't going to get it, but I'm pretty sure it'll make a dent in the 'problem.' We are part of their community, and communicating with them will make them feel more involved and more aware of who we are, as well as boost our reputation as being a responsible organization that people can trust their kids with.
I do a lot of talking to parents, both when the cadet wants to join, but also every time they get dropped off for meetings, activities, parents that come in for closing formation, and with our annual parent meeting (no cadets present). We talk about what we've done over the year, what is going on for the upcoming year, challenges we face, what we do to protect their cadet (CPPT stuff), have a question and answer session, and have a good ol' time.
Fortunately, all 45 of my cadets get picked up on time, every meeting. I like to think its because of the communication we initiate with our corps of parents. YMMV.
Quote from: spaatzmom on September 28, 2012, 12:05:25 AM
Quote from: Garibaldi on September 27, 2012, 10:45:58 PM
Quote from: spaatzmom on September 27, 2012, 09:41:42 PM
While I agree with you whole heartedly, I was giving you two examples that were not I hope the norm. Poor directions and no contact info given to the cadet for an event that was several hundred miles away from the home unit. Had I had contact info, for the first event, I would have been there well before the time of pick up by hours. But alas that was not to be and stopping to ask for directions was futile as no one asked even knew the state facility was in the next town over. Again poor directions and no contact info for the second led to a close call of missing the entire graduation but it did put me way out of my way from where I was supposed to be. These were not the typical local squadron events, they were wing level events. Thankfully since then contact info has been provided to parents for wing events. I was trying to make others aware that it is not always the parent who is at fault.
That wasn't the original intent of the OP. He was venting on parents who continually and habitually show up late to pick up their cadets. Obviously, there are extenuating circumstances that we can excuse (worked late unexpectedly, flat tire, sick child not in CAP, etc) but to the parents that habitually show up 30-45 minutes late KNOWING when the meeting ends and not offering any sort of excuse or apology, up with this we will not put.
Also, I have a feeling, based on experience, that some of the cadets aren't telling their parents the whole story. A lot of younger kids are wishy-washy with giving information out, and I haven't figured out why. I had one cadet a long time ago who didn't tell his parents what time to pick him up from an activity 90 miles from his home unit. We were stuck trying to shoehorn him into an already fully packed van so we could vacate the location AND try to get hold of his parents to meet us to come get him. He kept giving us phone numbers that he "thought" was his parent's cell or home, or his grandparent's. None of them worked. Finally, we were able to get hold of his unit CC who met us and took him home.
So, yeah.
I work with the cadet program and throughly enjoy my time with them for the most part.
One of my big issues is with parents who show up late to pick their cadet. We have lives beyond CAP and need parents to be responsible and on time.
What is the best way to deal with late parents?
Thanks All!!
In no way does he have such a limited implication of home unit meetings. There are always at minimum 2 sides to every story and in some 3 or 4. Those putting on the event do have a responsibility in giving accurate directions and emergency contact info to the member and parent. The member also has a responsibility to give those running the event/meeting accurate emergency contact info. There was a time when everyone had to show a form I think it was 60(emergency info form) to get into any event at least in Fl and have one on their person. Again, just saying or at the very least trying to get some to not only think outside the box but actually get out of the box and look around before squarely laying blame on one part of the equation.
You have well reprented the argument that there are circumstances outside the parents' control. Especially with a large event where directions/contact information was not given. That's a gaff on the unit - I don't think anyone is arguing with you on that. However, I see most everyone here talking about routine, home meetings where parents neglect (on a regular basis) to pick their children up on time. Not the occasional large or out of the ordinary event. Weekly meetings that end at 2100, and the parents routinely fail to show up until 2130 or later. It goes back to the need for improved communication as stated above. Expectactions of the unit need to be made clear to the cadet AND the parent. If the parent is incapable of picking their kid up on time (either because they are just not timely, or they have work or other committments), then they need to make other arrangements (ie. carpooling). Thankfully from what I've seen of my new unit, they appear to be on top of this issue and have supportive parental units.
Bottom line, communication and responsibility. It applies to big events or the weekly meeting.
Yes, the original direction of this thread was routine unit meetings and similiar activities, but I've spent more then my
share of time sitting for an hour or (more) with a militay liason and other staff waiting for the parent of a cadet(s) to pick them up from encampment - many times the answer is anything from "we didn't know it was over today", to "we couldn't find the place" to the ever popular
"we thought he was coming home with 'x' ".
Mistakes happen, and you can generally tell the mistakes pretty quickly from the disconnected, / disinterested parents.
The ones making the mistakes are usually panicked and calling constantly to make sure they can find you, the disconnected
/ disintested ones have attitude and tone in their voice that makes it sound as if "you're lucky we're coming at all". These parents
a lot of times have no real clue about CAP, nor do they really understand that we're not employees, the sad fact is that
these are many times the cadets that need our help the most, yet just getting them to meetings and activities is a huge
undertaking because of the dramatic personal lives of their parents and family.
It will never cease to amaze me that a parent from out of state, with a 6+ hour drive can be on time, yet one from
the local area shows up late- "rush hour traffic" is another great excuse, as if we haven't had that around here for 40 years.