I have seen lots of cadet that have this ribbon. How are squadrons able to get this or is it a personal thing awarded to a cadet.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Awards_and_decorations_of_the_Civil_Air_Patrol (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Awards_and_decorations_of_the_Civil_Air_Patrol)
This is a unit (squadron, group, wing, etc) award, hence the name Unit Citation. It is awarded for superior performance over a specified period. There's more about it in CAPR 39-3.
Quote from: Extremepredjudice on June 19, 2012, 07:20:30 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Awards_and_decorations_of_the_Civil_Air_Patrol (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Awards_and_decorations_of_the_Civil_Air_Patrol)
It is preferable to send people to the CAP regs, instead of Wikipedia articles.
CAPR 39-3 AWARD OF CAP MEDALS, RIBBONS, AND CERTIFICATES
Corrected Copy 7 February, 2012 - Page 7
"Unit Citation Award. Awarded for exceptionally meritorious service or exceptionally outstanding achievement which clearly sets the unit above and apart from similar units. Members are awarded the Unit Citation ribbon if they were members of the unit during the time period for which the citation is awarded.
(1) Recognition of meritorious service should cover a period of at least 12 months in order to permit the recommending authority to consider simultaneously units with related missions, compare all the units within their wing or region, and select the truly outstanding unit meriting the award.
(2) Recognition of outstanding achievements intended to recognize a single specific act or notable accomplishment that is separate and distinct from the normal mission or regular function of the unit. The period of an outstanding achievement is normally short and characterized by definite beginning and ending dates."
An often-forgotten clause is where the member had to belong to the unit when the award was issued.
Quote from: EMT-83 on June 19, 2012, 07:39:48 PM
An often-forgotten clause is where the member had to belong to the unit when the award was issued.
That's true until it was pointed out everyone that joined my old unit got one when they joined. Once it was pointed out that stopped also those of us who were wearing it when we werent'supposed to also stopped and took it off.
Correct, you only wear a unit citation only if you were a member of the unit during the time period for which the citation was awarded.
User "Cadet" please check your messages.
Quote from: Cadet on June 19, 2012, 07:06:45 PM
I have seen lots of cadet that have this ribbon.
If the NYWG got a Unit Citation for the period 7/1/2011 to 12/31/2011 everyone who was a member then got it. You the new guy who joined in January 2012 will not have it but every other Cadet will have it. 8)
Quote from: Private Investigator on June 20, 2012, 11:34:12 AM
Quote from: Cadet on June 19, 2012, 07:06:45 PM
I have seen lots of cadet that have this ribbon.
If the NYWG got a Unit Citation for the period 7/1/2011 to 12/31/2011 everyone who was a member then got it. You the new guy who joined in January 2012 will not have it but every other Cadet will have it. 8)
Make sure it says "New York Wing" not "New York Wing Headquarters" Headquarters means only those who were assigned to NER_NY-001, and not the entire Wing.
It's one of my biggest uniform pet peeves - a C/Amn with 5 Unit Citations. >:D
Quote from: usafaux2004 on June 20, 2012, 03:15:25 PM
It's one of my biggest uniform pet peeves - a C/Amn with 5 Unit Citations. >:D
I vote for the army style of unit citations where you can wear the ones the unit earned but not you specifically for as long as you're in the unit... >:D
Quote from: HGjunkie on June 20, 2012, 04:00:04 PMI vote for the army style of unit citations where you can wear the ones the unit earned but not you specifically for as long as you're in the unit...
Why? Those serve zero purpose to anyone. They reward nothing, and engender an attitude of entitlement.
Quote from: Eclipse on June 20, 2012, 04:25:45 PM
Quote from: HGjunkie on June 20, 2012, 04:00:04 PMI vote for the army style of unit citations where you can wear the ones the unit earned but not you specifically for as long as you're in the unit...
Why? Those serve zero purpose to anyone. They reward nothing, and engender an attitude of entitlement.
You missed the evil smiley at the end of my post. I wasn't completely serious.
Having browser issues - some of the emoticons aren't rendering correctly.
When I have browser issues, it's usually because they're in the middle of the aisle and won't move or they're moving like pond water. >:D
Quote from: Eclipse on June 20, 2012, 06:57:55 PM
Having browser issues - some of the emoticons aren't rendering correctly.
Odd, they look fine in IE.
(As hard as I tried, I couldn't stop myself)
Quote from: EMT-83 on June 20, 2012, 07:02:42 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on June 20, 2012, 06:57:55 PM
Having browser issues - some of the emoticons aren't rendering correctly.
Odd, they look fine in IE.
(As hard as I tried, I couldn't stop myself)
May the FSM strike down your broadband and banish you to the evils of AOL dial-up for all eternity for even suggesting that!
Quote from: Eclipse on June 20, 2012, 04:25:45 PM
Quote from: HGjunkie on June 20, 2012, 04:00:04 PMI vote for the army style of unit citations where you can wear the ones the unit earned but not you specifically for as long as you're in the unit...
Why? Those serve zero purpose to anyone. They reward nothing, and engender an attitude of entitlement.
Roger that. My Army Unit has a PUC from Korea 1953.
In the olden days when dinosaurs roamed the earth and I was but a young cadink CAP (and the Air Force) used to follow the Army's wear rule of unit citations. (And the Air Force used to wear unit citations over the right pocket back in the 50s. Now I'm not THAT old... ;D ) Eventually, the rule was changed so that you only wear the unit citations earned if you were in that unit during the award period. Unfortunately, there are a great many CAP units who don't bother reading the regs and rely on incorrect information passed down by word of mouth.
I joined the USAF in 86......and the ARMY rule was long gone by then.....anyone know when the USAF changed?
Quote from: lordmonar on June 21, 2012, 08:45:21 PM
I joined the USAF in 86......and the ARMY rule was long gone by then.....anyone know when the USAF changed?
I think it was in the 60s when the wear rule changed. I do remember back when I was a cadet older versions of CAPR 39-3 from as far back as the 70s still had the Army rule.
The old rule was probably in effect back in the '90's. Asked a few cadet one stripers why they had three and four unit citations. Most told me that they were told to wear them.
Seem to recall at the time that it didn't specify that membership in the unit at the time the citation covered was required.
Quote from: spacecommand on June 19, 2012, 08:03:47 PM
Correct, you only wear a unit citation only if you were a member of the unit during the time period for which the citation was awarded.
GOOD POINT, likewise, you are only authorized to wear the unit citation while serving with that unit. I.E. when I moved to a new wing and unit, I no longer wore the unit citation.
Quote from: Jquick on June 24, 2012, 09:55:18 PM
Quote from: spacecommand on June 19, 2012, 08:03:47 PM
Correct, you only wear a unit citation only if you were a member of the unit during the time period for which the citation was awarded.
GOOD POINT, likewise, you are only authorized to wear the unit citation while serving with that unit. I.E. when I moved to a new wing and unit, I no longer wore the unit citation.
Incorrect. If you received the award you do not remove the ribbon if you transfer to a different unit, echelon, or wing.
The awards are permanent.
I've never heard a firm answer to this question...
In order to wear the award, does one have to be a member for the ENTIRE award period?
Example: XYZ unit was awarded a unit citation for the period 1/1/2011-12/31/2011.
Member ABC joined after 1/1/2011 but before 12/31/2011. Is that member entitled to wear the unit citation ribbon?
I stand corrected as I just referenced CAPR 39-3; however, I disagree with this. The unit was awarded the citation, and not the individual person or persons. The individual should receive the commanders commendation, and that should remain in the person service jacket, the unit citation applies to unit at the time the award was bestowed. IMHO, continued wear once you leave the unit cheapens the award, and down plays the rationale behind the receiving it. If you disagree, that's fine, but consider submitting you personnel for commanders commendations instead of unit citations.
Eclipse, I apologize for my ignorance in CAPR 39-3; however, take my advice, Starting any post as confrontational as that on does not lend any credibility to your argument. Discussion boards like these are intended to be a free exchange of ideas, not a place to become argumentative; temper your post and avoid the usage of trigger words. Trust me I have years of experience typing documents, emails, position paper, well as other professional correspondence. Once you hit enter, it's hard to get it back.
Quote from: Woodsy on June 25, 2012, 12:42:19 AM
In order to wear the award, does one have to be a member for the ENTIRE award period?
No, you simply have to have been on the roster during the period cited - from day 1 or day 100.
Quote from: Eclipse on June 25, 2012, 12:46:10 AM
Quote from: Woodsy on June 25, 2012, 12:42:19 AM
In order to wear the award, does one have to be a member for the ENTIRE award period?
No, you simply have to have been on the roster during the period cited - from day 1 or day 100.
Thanks!
Quote from: Jquick on June 25, 2012, 12:44:05 AM
I stand corrected as I just referenced CAPR 39-3; however, I disagree with this. The unit was awarded the citation, and not the individual person or persons.
Actually, since the "unit" is a collection of members, it is the collective effort of the respective members that is being cited for
excellence.
Quote from: Jquick on June 25, 2012, 12:44:05 AM
The individual should receive the commanders commendation, and that should remain in the person service jacket, the unit citation applies to unit at the time the award was bestowed. IMHO, continued wear once you leave the unit cheapens the award, and down plays the rationale behind the receiving it. If you disagree, that's fine, but consider submitting you personnel for commanders commendations instead of unit citations.
It is not uncommon for individuals in units who are receiving UC's to also receive Comm Comms for their personal efforts in regards to the same collective efforts which earned the UC.
i.e. "SM Johnson's tireless efforts in coordinating the training activities of AZ-007 resulted in the highest level of qualified ES personnel in the entire wing for a two-year period." UC for AZ-007, because that's not a singular effort, and Comm Comm for Johnson.
Quote from: Jquick on June 25, 2012, 12:44:05 AM
Eclipse, I apologize for my ignorance in CAPR 39-3; however, take my advice, Starting any post as confrontational as that on does not lend any credibility to your argument.
What lends credibility to my argument is a knowledge of the respective regulations, and checking them before making definitive statements.
Quote from: Jquick on June 25, 2012, 12:44:05 AM
Discussion boards like these are intended to be a free exchange of ideas, not a place to become argumentative; temper your post and avoid the usage of trigger words. Trust me I have years of experience typing documents, emails, position paper, well as other professional correspondence. Once you hit enter, it's hard to get it back.
Welcome to CAP Talk.
Quote from: Jquick on June 25, 2012, 12:44:05 AM
I stand corrected as I just referenced CAPR 39-3; however, I disagree with this. The unit was awarded the citation, and not the individual person or persons. The individual should receive the commanders commendation, and that should remain in the person service jacket, the unit citation applies to unit at the time the award was bestowed. IMHO, continued wear once you leave the unit cheapens the award, and down plays the rationale behind the receiving it. If you disagree, that's fine, but consider submitting you personnel for commanders commendations instead of unit citations.
Eclipse, I apologize for my ignorance in CAPR 39-3; however, take my advice, Starting any post as confrontational as that on does not lend any credibility to your argument. Discussion boards like these are intended to be a free exchange of ideas, not a place to become argumentative; temper your post and avoid the usage of trigger words. Trust me I have years of experience typing documents, emails, position paper, well as other professional correspondence. Once you hit enter, it's hard to get it back.
Wow, you are new to this forum and on the defensive already after 4 posts, while Eclipse has been here contributing well over 15k posts. Where does it say that any debate, which this forum is has to be warm and fuzzy all the time. These are peoples experiences, observations, and opinions. If we all had to believe the same thing, it would be very dull and likely a dictatorship. As long as I can reasonably defend my beliefs with documentation to support my post, I do not mind entertaining another's opinion. Why don't you?
This thread has far digressed from the intended topic.
Quote from: Jquick on June 25, 2012, 12:44:05 AM
Eclipse, I apologize for my ignorance in CAPR 39-3; however, take my advice, Starting any post as confrontational as that on does not lend any credibility to your argument.
How is it confrontational? Because it said you are incorrect?
Quote from: Jquick on June 25, 2012, 12:44:05 AM
Discussion boards like these are intended to be a free exchange of ideas, not a place to become argumentative;
Free? Yes. Freely accepted? No.
Quote from: Jquick on June 25, 2012, 12:44:05 AM
temper your post and avoid the usage of trigger words.
Incorrect? Really?
Quote from: Jquick on June 25, 2012, 12:44:05 AM
Trust me I have years of experience typing documents, emails, position paper, well as other professional correspondence.
I also have years of experience typing documents, emails, position papers, and other professional correspondence. I'm 22.
Quote from: Jquick on June 25, 2012, 12:44:05 AM
Once you hit enter, it's hard to get it back.
There's always the edit button, but I suppose I actually agree with this one.
Quote from: Jquick on June 25, 2012, 01:58:30 AM
This thread has far digressed from the intended topic.
Many of them do just as in normal conversation. So what is your point? Don't like the way the thread is going attempt to get it back on track via the moderators or don't respond letting it die on the vine. Believe me, the moderators are very capable and do their voluntary job quite well.
I have no problems with a member continuing to wear a unit citation when they move to another unit. It represents part of the member's career along with all the member's other ribbons, in this case it represents that they were a member of a unit that did something that warranted a citation and no way "cheapens" the award. In my parts it's completely opposite of what you say, I had members transfer into my unit with unit citations, and generally we all view it in high regard.
Something semi-related: Why isn't there a ribbon for Squadron of Merit/Distinction?
Gets a streamer just like the UC, but doesn't have a way to be represented on the chest resume.
Quote from: usafaux2004 on June 25, 2012, 02:24:44 AM
Something semi-related: Why isn't there a ribbon for Squadron of Merit/Distinction?
Gets a streamer just like the UC, but doesn't have a way to be represented on the chest resume.
I've wondered that myself, though the criteria for the merit / distinction is not necessarily on a par with a UC.
I'd say it could be justified that a unit awarded merit could be put in for a UC on that basis, though a UC decorates the
whole unit while merit is specific to the cadet side of the house, and we all know far too many units where the 'twain
ner' meet.
Quote from: Jquick on June 24, 2012, 09:55:18 PM
Quote from: spacecommand on June 19, 2012, 08:03:47 PM
Correct, you only wear a unit citation only if you were a member of the unit during the time period for which the citation was awarded.
GOOD POINT, likewise, you are only authorized to wear the unit citation while serving with that unit. I.E. when I moved to a new wing and unit, I no longer wore the unit citation.
If you were in the unit when issued, it was permanent. That remains as part of the rules.
Quote from: Eclipse on June 25, 2012, 02:43:43 AM
Quote from: usafaux2004 on June 25, 2012, 02:24:44 AM
Something semi-related: Why isn't there a ribbon for Squadron of Merit/Distinction?
Gets a streamer just like the UC, but doesn't have a way to be represented on the chest resume.
I've wondered that myself, though the criteria for the merit / distinction is not necessarily on a par with a UC.
I'd say it could be justified that a unit awarded merit could be put in for a UC on that basis, though a UC decorates the
whole unit while merit is specific to the cadet side of the house, and we all know far too many units where the 'twain
ner' meet.
Could be a specific cadet ribbon then. Just something that was on the mind anyway.
Quote from: usafaux2004 on June 25, 2012, 04:21:56 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on June 25, 2012, 02:43:43 AM
Quote from: usafaux2004 on June 25, 2012, 02:24:44 AM
Something semi-related: Why isn't there a ribbon for Squadron of Merit/Distinction?
Gets a streamer just like the UC, but doesn't have a way to be represented on the chest resume.
I've wondered that myself, though the criteria for the merit / distinction is not necessarily on a par with a UC.
I'd say it could be justified that a unit awarded merit could be put in for a UC on that basis, though a UC decorates the
whole unit while merit is specific to the cadet side of the house, and we all know far too many units where the 'twain
ner' meet.
Could be a specific cadet ribbon then. Just something that was on the mind anyway.
No. Just because it is on the cadet side of the house; there are seniors that make the program run. Pt just the cadets themselves.
Quote from: Eclipse on June 25, 2012, 02:43:43 AM
Quote from: usafaux2004 on June 25, 2012, 02:24:44 AM
Something semi-related: Why isn't there a ribbon for Squadron of Merit/Distinction?
Gets a streamer just like the UC, but doesn't have a way to be represented on the chest resume.
I've wondered that myself, though the criteria for the merit / distinction is not necessarily on a par with a UC.
I'd say it could be justified that a unit awarded merit could be put in for a UC on that basis, though a UC decorates the
whole unit while merit is specific to the cadet side of the house, and we all know far too many units where the 'twain
ner' meet.
Ummmmm NO.....it is a SQUADRON of distinction and a SQUADRON of Merit.....i.e. the whole unit. Yes it only looks at the Cadet Side of things.....but same story for the UC......If you get it for doing a great job on an ES mission......even those AE and CP guys who did not do any ES stuff get it.
I use the last few National Commander's Unit citations handed out recently.....Katrina, Fosset Search, New Horizons, etc. I did nothing during the Fosset Search....but got an NCCUC for it it.
On a side note....I have seen units (mine) get turned down for a UC because "you just won SoD, you don't need another award".
So....I too wonder why there is not a ribbon for the SoD and SoM.
Not to add to our ribbon mess, but maybe we should mirror the USAF on this and have about degrees of unit citation. The current UC could be our organizational excellence ribbon, NCCUC could be our equal to the PUC, and add a couple more in between for wings and regions to award that would be the unit version of the Com Com and ESM(?).
Quote from: Jquick on June 25, 2012, 12:44:05 AM
I stand corrected as I just referenced CAPR 39-3; however, I disagree with this. The unit was awarded the citation, and not the individual person or persons. The individual should receive the commanders commendation, and that should remain in the person service jacket, the unit citation applies to unit at the time the award was bestowed. IMHO, continued wear once you leave the unit cheapens the award, and down plays the rationale behind the receiving it. If you disagree, that's fine, but consider submitting you personnel for commanders commendations instead of unit citations.
Eclipse, I apologize for my ignorance in CAPR 39-3; however, take my advice, Starting any post as confrontational as that on does not lend any credibility to your argument. Discussion boards like these are intended to be a free exchange of ideas, not a place to become argumentative; temper your post and avoid the usage of trigger words. Trust me I have years of experience typing documents, emails, position paper, well as other professional correspondence. Once you hit enter, it's hard to get it back.
On the other hand, the members helped the Unit earn the award and should continue to receive recognition for their participation on excellent Team work.
QuoteIncorrect. If you received the award you do not remove the ribbon if you transfer to a different unit, echelon, or wing.
The awards are permanent.
If you move to a different squadron, wing, etc... Why would a unit citation follow you if it was a citation for that particular unit? Cite please...
Thanks
Quote from: Shawn Warneke on July 16, 2012, 01:53:38 AM
QuoteIncorrect. If you received the award you do not remove the ribbon if you transfer to a different unit, echelon, or wing.
The awards are permanent.
If you move to a different squadron, wing, etc... Why would a unit citation follow you if it was a citation for that particular unit? Cite please...
Thanks
Because a unit citation awards all people in that unit for that time. I earned it, I keep it. Cite otherwise please.
Quote from: Shawn Warneke on July 16, 2012, 01:53:38 AM
QuoteIncorrect. If you received the award you do not remove the ribbon if you transfer to a different unit, echelon, or wing.
The awards are permanent.
If you move to a different squadron, wing, etc... Why would a unit citation follow you if it was a citation for that particular unit? Cite please...
39-3 is the cite. Unit citations are awarded to the individual
members who were assigned to the respective unit as their primary assignment
during the period cited, not the "unit" per se.
Processed properly, the Form 120 will contain a list of specific names to whom the UC applies (to the exclusion of all others), either directly or as a PA.
Quote from: SarDragon on June 25, 2012, 04:17:05 AM
Quote from: Jquick on June 24, 2012, 09:55:18 PM
Quote from: spacecommand on June 19, 2012, 08:03:47 PM
Correct, you only wear a unit citation only if you were a member of the unit during the time period for which the citation was awarded.
GOOD POINT, likewise, you are only authorized to wear the unit citation while serving with that unit. I.E. when I moved to a new wing and unit, I no longer wore the unit citation.
If you were in the unit when issued, it was permanent. That remains as part of the rules.
I wish the regs were clearer...so many interpretations...In my unit in WIWG, we had 3 UC awards. When I moved to ARWG, they had none. They won 3 while I was there, so I just kept the ribbon and 2 clasps. Should I have upped the ante and gotten a silver clasp denoting another 3 UCs? If half the camp here is correct, I should have a silver clasp. If the other half are correct I should stick with what I have...
*checks 39-2*
ah HA! Here's the bugger...
CAPR 39-2 Section A subsection 2, paragraph 12, subsection a(2):
blah blah blah "Unit commanders will post the members' records to show their eligibility to wear the ribbon. Once awarded, members may continue to wear the ribbon even if they transfer out of the unit at a later date."
So...If I can prove I was a member of my unit when they got the UC award in WI, then I get more thingies to put on my ribbon.
Sometimes the two camps are:
Those who are correct and those who are mistaken for one reason or another. 8)
As you dug out the cite, there is no matter of interpretation at all.
The CAP Unit Citation Award somewhat resembles the USAF Outstanding Unit Award. You were a member, you get the ribbon for all time.
I got one for my USAF unit because I processed in to the unit 6 July and the criteria was membership from sometime up until 30 July of that year. I did precisely squat other than in-process and house hunt. Silly though it may be, there's the AF Outstanding Unit ribbon in my records. It may not seem 'fair' or 'right' to some folks, but that doesn't change the simple reality.
2 of my CAP unit citations are for post 9-11 actions of NYWG (not the HQ, NYWG as a whole) and NER. I was a member, my unit did absolutely nothing other than exist. But that's how the cookie crumbles sometimes.
Honestly, I wasn't trying to be a d-bag. It just came out that way. I am very tired as I write this and that post as well, so things came out in a d-baggy fashion. Apologies to anyone who was offended or angered. I'm off to bed. I have a test for the TSA in the morning and I need to sleep for a change.
NHQ recently updated the language for the UC to insure the understanding was correct, so anything your units won earned more than a year or so ago could have fallen under the olde school of "we know the rules, but this way means we can pretend everyone gets a ribbon..."
I had a unit that awarded themselves UC's because the unit had, years previously, been awarded the SoM. That was a fun conversation.
And yes, if you were a part of those units during the period cited on the UC and/or the 120's, you should be wearing all 5. Your best bet would be to hit up those former units or wings for copies of the citations.
Got it.. Thanks all for the clarification. :-D
Cheers,
S.W.
Adding my $0.02 to the fire ...
When I first joined in 1981, the "understanding" was that if you were in the unit, you could wear whatever UCs the unit had earned. That meant, according to the CC at the time, I could wear the UC with one silver and two bronze clasps. I thought that looked kind of silly on a brand new SM (right next to the Membership ribbon), so I didn't wear the ribbon at all. Somewhere along the way, the wing earned a UC, and I wore the plain green ribbon from that time on.
Now, having been a part of the wing when we earned a NCUC, I wear it - and still the plain green ribbon.
I think I did the right thing all along.
Jack
On the topic of Unit Citations; has a Squadron or a Group received one? Usually it is the Wing or Wing HQ that is awarded the UC as far as I know.
What about the NCUC?
Quote from: Private Investigator on July 17, 2012, 12:49:04 AM
On the topic of Unit Citations; has a Squadron or a Group received one? Usually it is the Wing or Wing HQ that is awarded the UC as far as I know.
What about the NCUC?
My current squadron has 3.
Were you a member of the unit when they were awarded?
Quote from: Private Investigator on July 17, 2012, 12:49:04 AM
On the topic of Unit Citations; has a Squadron or a Group received one? Usually it is the Wing or Wing HQ that is awarded the UC as far as I know.
Actually, exactly the opposite. With the exception of a few high-visibility wings, the UC is generally awarded to the actual unit, not the unit and its downstream components.
The "001" unit might get a UC, but not the subordinates.
CAWG (the entire wing) has been awarded two UCs since I transferred in.
Quote from: SarDragon on July 17, 2012, 01:18:30 AM
CAWG (the entire wing) has been awarded two UCs since I transferred in.
NYWG, FLWG, & CAWG, seem especially inclined towards this practice, although in their defense some tend to get a lot of
high-visibility, large scale missions.
Quote from: SarDragon on July 17, 2012, 01:02:04 AM
Were you a member of the unit when they were awarded?
Me? Yes. Not the NCUC, but the basic UC.
Quote from: Private Investigator on July 17, 2012, 12:49:04 AM
On the topic of Unit Citations; has a Squadron or a Group received one? Usually it is the Wing or Wing HQ that is awarded the UC as far as I know.
What about the NCUC?
I wear the UC with one clasp. My squadron won SoM in 80 and SoD in 82 while I was a cadet. The unit citation streamers somehow ended up on the Group guidon after the squadron folded in 89. How about that? i hadn't thought of it that way until just now. Top squadron in the country one year and kaput 7 years later.
Quote from: Eclipse on July 17, 2012, 01:24:57 AM
Quote from: SarDragon on July 17, 2012, 01:18:30 AM
CAWG (the entire wing) has been awarded two UCs since I transferred in.
NYWG, FLWG, & CAWG, seem especially inclined towards this practice, although in their defense some tend to get a lot of
high-visibility, large scale missions.
These were awarded by NHQ, not the wing. One was for Challenger, and I believe the other one was for Fossett.
Pretty sure you mean Columbia. Challenger fell into the ocean. ;)
NER and NYWG were for 9/11
Quote from: LGM30GMCC on July 18, 2012, 12:30:51 AM
Pretty sure you mean Columbia. Challenger fell into the ocean. ;)
NER and NYWG were for 9/11
Well, they both start with 'C'. ::)
Quote from: Garibaldi on July 17, 2012, 12:56:18 AM
Quote from: Private Investigator on July 17, 2012, 12:49:04 AM
On the topic of Unit Citations; has a Squadron or a Group received one? Usually it is the Wing or Wing HQ that is awarded the UC as far as I know.
What about the NCUC?
My current squadron has 3.
And none of the cadets and only a few of the seniors where in the unit at the time the last one was earned never mind all 3 but I constantly see personnel from your unit sporting the ribbon. I have personally talked to one of your seniors about this who was sporting 3 clasps on hers....
PLEASE help me fix this because it makes me twitch....
Quote from: Garibaldi on July 17, 2012, 12:56:18 AM
Quote from: Private Investigator on July 17, 2012, 12:49:04 AM
On the topic of Unit Citations; has a Squadron or a Group received one? Usually it is the Wing or Wing HQ that is awarded the UC as far as I know.
What about the NCUC?
My current squadron has 3.
I was just wondering what a Squadron would do for a Unit Citation? Work the County Fair? SoD and SoM I guess :)
Quote from: cap235629 on July 18, 2012, 06:33:32 AM
Quote from: Garibaldi on July 17, 2012, 12:56:18 AM
Quote from: Private Investigator on July 17, 2012, 12:49:04 AM
On the topic of Unit Citations; has a Squadron or a Group received one? Usually it is the Wing or Wing HQ that is awarded the UC as far as I know.
What about the NCUC?
My current squadron has 3.
And none of the cadets and only a few of the seniors where in the unit at the time the last one was earned never mind all 3 but I constantly see personnel from your unit sporting the ribbon. I have personally talked to one of your seniors about this who was sporting 3 clasps on hers....
PLEASE help me fix this because it makes me twitch....
Taken to PM
Quote from: Private Investigator on July 18, 2012, 08:39:07 AMI was just wondering what a Squadron would do for a Unit Citation? Work the County Fair? SoD and SoM I guess
Be the host for large activities with a scope outside the unit.
Be the lead / only unit involved in a large ES response.
Significantly increase membership / proficiency / qualifications.
Cumulative performance in all three missions above that of their peer units.
Frankly I think that SoM / SoD would be something to include in the narrative for a UC, but in and of themselves SoD / SoM are already awards,
so you're double awarding the membership if you give a UC to members who earned the SoM / SoD.
But there is no ribbon to go along with SoM/SoD. Not that the UC is a good replacement, but now with ComComs and Achievement Ribbons, I suppose it is possible to reward the players who made it happen.
Makes more sense to have unit award ribbons for SoM/SoD than to award individual decorations to an entire unit for SoM/SoD.
Frankly there are so many issues with how and why units receive the SoM / SoD, I wouldn't even know where to start with that.
It's both objective
and subjective, is based on factors which may be largely out of a unit's hands, and tends to favor smaller units, especially
new ones.
Quote from: MIKE on July 18, 2012, 04:50:53 PM
Makes more sense to have unit award ribbons for SoM/SoD than to award individual decorations to an entire unit for SoM/SoD.
I agree, and since the SoM / SoD is entirely a cadet-focused award, those not involved in the "cadet-side" should not be decorated - that's
another kettle of fish.
Quote from: usafaux2004 on July 18, 2012, 04:38:39 PM
But there is no ribbon to go along with SoM/SoD. Not that the UC is a good replacement, but now with ComComs and Achievement Ribbons, I suppose it is possible to reward the players who made it happen.
I agree that the SoM/SoD either should have their own ribbons or automatically get UCs.
And yes if you are putting together a program that results in a SoM/SoD.....then you do need to be writting up and awarding CCComs and Acheivement Medals.
The ribbon on the flag >is< the reward.
In fact, since a UC is another streamer, that's more reason >not< to award one for the SoM / SoD.
"Hey! Why'd you get the red streamer?"
"Because we got the yellow one!"
Quote from: Eclipse on July 18, 2012, 05:10:55 PM
The ribbon on the flag >is< the reward.
In fact, since a UC is another streamer, that's more reason >not< to award one for the SoM / SoD.
"Hey! Why'd you get the red streamer?"
"Because we got the yellow one!"
Which is why I said ComComs and Achievement Ribbons. Someone has to be the driving force (Say the deputy of cadets), and then support characters such as O-flight pilots, leadership officers, activity planners, etc. While some SoM/SoD are trivial, I bet there's typically at least one or two people who can be rewarded on the Senior side for a job well done.
Yes their reward is the streamer.
Being a part of a unit selected as SoM could certainly be one line in a larger 120, but not the whole thing, and not for the whole unit.
The SoM essentially says "You were the best of those who did actually did what you're supposed to, Thank You".
Quote from: Eclipse on July 18, 2012, 04:32:59 PM
Quote from: Private Investigator on July 18, 2012, 08:39:07 AMI was just wondering what a Squadron would do for a Unit Citation? Work the County Fair? SoD and SoM I guess
Be the host for large activities with a scope outside the unit.
Be the lead / only unit involved in a large ES response.
Significantly increase membership / proficiency / qualifications.
Cumulative performance in all three missions above that of their peer units.
Frankly I think that SoM / SoD would be something to include in the narrative for a UC, but in and of themselves SoD / SoM are already awards,
so you're double awarding the membership if you give a UC to members who earned the SoM / SoD.
I know Units put themselves in for Unit Citations for 9/11/2001 response, but did any Units get a UC for 9/11?
Is there a database listing all the units who earned a UC over, say, the last 20 years or so? I've tried checking with my old Wing but no dice.
I doubt so. Many UC's are approved at the Wing level and if the Wing has no record and the squadron has no record (good research job for the unit historian if there is one), then you'll need to seek other sources.
Browse through the unit files (if kept), look for certificates in the back closet. Research local newspaper databases for any news articles that might of mentioned the unit etc.
You would think wing has to send something up for NHQ...
Quote from: usafaux2004 on July 22, 2012, 04:38:42 AM
You would think wing has to send something up for NHQ...
And you would be right.
Currently, the F120 for the UC is approved by the Wing, and then NHQ approves the F120 when it sends the 'kit' with certificate and streamer back to the Wing for presentation.
As I read CAPR 39-3, it looks like the UC must be approved at the national level, not just wing and region.
Quote from: Garibaldi on July 22, 2012, 03:58:01 AM
Is there a database listing all the units who earned a UC over, say, the last 20 years or so? I've tried checking with my old Wing but no dice.
Occassionally I see where it lists XXWG (5th Award) ZZWG (3rd Award) in the CAP magazine but i never see Petticoat Junction Cadet Squadron, XX-123 (44th Award) listed. Or any Squadron or Group listed for that matter. It is always a Wing, Wing HQ or Region.
Quote from: ßτε on July 22, 2012, 11:46:08 AM
As I read CAPR 39-3, it looks like the UC must be approved at the national level, not just wing and region.
That's the way I read it too...but then doesn't it become the National Commander Unit Citation. The Approving authority for the UC is not clearly defined in the Regs.
I think it should be redesigned along the lines of the AF OSU ribbon.
Right now it looks like a stick of Dentyne Spearmint Gum.
Quote from: SARDOC on December 06, 2012, 05:54:25 AM
Quote from: ßτε on July 22, 2012, 11:46:08 AM
As I read CAPR 39-3, it looks like the UC must be approved at the national level, not just wing and region.
That's the way I read it too...but then doesn't it become the National Commander Unit Citation. The Approving authority for the UC is not clearly defined in the Regs.
The NCUC award is strictly top down. A regular UCC can be initiated at the Group, Wing, and Region level.
Squadrons do get them, but not very often.
Those saying the UC should be ditched upon transfer are wrong. The ribbon goes with the individuals who earned it. The Personnel Officer of the Unit should be preparing a Personnel Authorization listing all members of the unit who were members during the cited period.
Quote from: CyBorg on December 06, 2012, 06:32:17 AM
I think it should be redesigned along the lines of the AF OSU ribbon.
Right now it looks like a stick of Dentyne Spearmint Gum.
What's even more confusing is that the Unit Citation award streamer is red, while the ribbon is green. (The 'Green Weenie'!) If I remember correctly the NCUC streamer is gold with blue lettering.
Drop the NCUC and use the ribbon for the merit and distinction awards (then they would have some meaning to the membership), and change the UC to RED. Change IACE to solid the solid green, since that affects very few members, anyway.
Before the Great Ribbon Redesign of the late 1970's-early 1980's, the UC was green with 4(IIRC) white stripes and IACE was red with white propellers scattered on it. Therefore, the power-that-were made the UC green (I think to avoid confusion with a military ribbon) and IACE red.
Another reason we should just wear CAP decorations and move on. The constant discussion / concern about being confused with
decs from other services shouldn't be the primary reasoning behind a given award.
This is probably why the UC mini medal is green with two edging white stripes. And the IACE mini-medal retains its props.
Quote from: LGM30GMCC on December 07, 2012, 05:31:58 PM
This is probably why the UC mini medal is green with two edging white stripes. And the IACE mini-medal retains its props.
Never noticed that before (never paid attention, either)
(http://www.vanguardmil.com/images/medium/0000000cap0787_MED.jpg)
The SAR Ribbon has extraneous white edging as well:
(http://www.vanguardmil.com/images/medium/0000000cap0788_MED.jpg)
Quote from: Eclipse on December 07, 2012, 03:06:11 PM
Another reason we should just wear CAP decorations and move on. The constant discussion / concern about being confused with
decs from other services shouldn't be the primary reasoning behind a given award.
Or another reason to ask the wearer for clarification:
Member A: Hey, is that a [insert military dec here]
Member B: No, it's a [insert CAP dec here]
Member A: Cool.
Member B: Yupp.
Quote from: Eclipse on December 07, 2012, 03:06:11 PM
Another reason we should just wear CAP decorations and move on. The constant discussion / concern about being confused with
decs from other services shouldn't be the primary reasoning behind a given award.
The only folks that are going to recognize that some ribbons worn by CAP members are real military ribbons are those who were in the real military and by the time they're close enough to see a ribbon they'll have had ample opportunity to notice the other things that make our uniforms look different.
[Although some civilians may recognize a few military awards -- Medal of Honor, Purple Heart, and CIB, but thats about it]
Quote from: arajca on December 07, 2012, 02:17:30 PM
Before the Great Ribbon Redesign of the late 1970's-early 1980's, the UC was green with 4(IIRC) white stripes and IACE was red with white propellers scattered on it. Therefore, the power-that-were made the UC green (I think to avoid confusion with a military ribbon) and IACE red.
According to my multiple sources, the UC has had the same design since its inception in 1960 - a solid green ribbon. I still have my plastic one from my cadet days.
Does National maintain a list of when Squadron's may have been issued Unit Citations? I know my unit has been around since the 40's and has gotten multiple citations since then. However, I'll be darned if I've ever seen a Streamer of anything along those lines.
There have been several Wings and units that have asked for that information, but National does't have the list.