For years, hundreds from heavily Asian neighborhoods in the San Gabriel Valley have joined faux military units. After the arrest of one group's leader, legitimate clubs come under scrutiny.
The crisp green military uniform made George Liu feel patriotic and proud, and when he marched through the streets of the San Gabriel Valley with the United States Army Volunteer Reserve Association, the green card holder felt like a real citizen.
Liu bought the uniform from a thrift store for $100 and then paid an additional $95 to become a sergeant in the association, a bargain compared with what the group's web site said it cost to become a colonel or — at the top of the price line — the $335 it cost to be a lieutenant general.
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-fake-armies-20110714,0,6640892.story
"When we are raising the American flag, it would be disrespectful to be wearing our own clothes," said Gao Aidi, a Shanghai immigrant who is a major general. "So we wear our uniforms to show respect to the flag. What's wrong with that?"
Sheesh. It's a heck of a lot cheaper to be an officer in that than it is in CAP...
Quote from: JC004 on July 15, 2011, 09:46:18 AM
Sheesh. It's a heck of a lot cheaper to be an officer in that than it is in CAP...
^^ Where do I sign up?
I have had dealings with a person who was involved in the group(rump militia). He was a Major and was told that they were going to be activated to go to the middle east in support of U.S Military operations.(and I am a door gunner on a A-747) They have even compared themselves to being like CAP. I spoke to one of their so called Generals on the phone and he could not even speak E English. They have suckered a lot of South Vietnam military forces veterans into join clamming that they would be entitled to U.S veterans benefits. The upper echelon of this rump should be fined or imprisoned. I had to point out to the self proclaimed major that congress and the USAF authorizes me to wear a uniform and grade. He said CAP was a bunch of AF Wannabees..........
Can't immigratants who are young enough just join the actual military?
Quote from: niferous on July 15, 2011, 05:25:19 PM
Can't immigratants who are young enough just join the actual military?
If they're here legally and documented, I believe so. I've seen quite a few pictures of citizenship ceremonies with quite a few troops in dress uniforms taking their oath of US citizenship...a bit redundant, I think, since they've already taken an oath to the United States (and to their state, if they're Guard) when they joined up.
Every country has a different policy about foreign nationals serving in their military. With some it'll get them residency status, but the vast majority will not.
Example: 20-odd years ago I talked to a recruiter from the Canadian armed forces. He said I'd have to get legal residency in Canada
first, then I could join, but only as a reservist and I could not be an officer. The famed Eagle Squadrons of Americans in the RCAF and RAF during WWII risked losing their U.S. citizenship, among them Don Gentile and Donald Blakeslee. I don't believe the Flying Tigers fell into that category, since they were basically paid mercenaries.
The green uniform may make Mr. Liu "feel patriotic," but until the Army completely discontinues the green dress uniform, it is not legally nor morally right for him to wear it.
Man..."major general" and "lieutenant general?" As long as they don't expect me to salute!
Mr. Gao Aidi is quite incorrect when he says it is disrespectful to "wear our own clothes" when raising the Flag. Joe and Jane Q. Public have done it for years.
These "rump" (and you know what a synonym for THAT is) militias make legitimate military auxiliaries (like us and the USCGAUX) and affiliated groups (USNSCC, Young Marines, ACA) and State Guards a bad name.
Quote from: niferous on July 15, 2011, 05:25:19 PM
Can't immigratants who are young enough just join the actual military?
Why would you do that if you thought you were in the military?
Quote from: CyBorg on July 15, 2011, 06:56:54 PM
I've seen quite a few pictures of citizenship ceremonies with quite a few troops in dress uniforms taking their oath of US citizenship...a bit redundant, I think, since they've already taken an oath to the United States (and to their state, if they're Guard) when they joined up.
The oaths are different.
You can take the Enlistment Oath at 17. US Citizenship only at 18.
Not saying anything one way or another about this group(s), but private military societies were very popular in the latter half of the 19th century.
There is some "commander" somewhere laughing all the way to the bank.
If you read the story, you'll discover the Supreme Commander is doing 3 years in the can.
Quote from: dogboy on July 16, 2011, 01:11:48 AM
If you read the story, you'll discover the Supreme Commander is doing 3 years in the can.
Too much Chinese?
Quote from: DakRadz on July 16, 2011, 01:29:33 AM
Quote from: dogboy on July 16, 2011, 01:11:48 AM
If you read the story, you'll discover the Supreme Commander is doing 3 years in the can.
Too much Chinese?
;D ;D ;D ;D
Oh gosh! that made me lol so hard! Well done on that one. :clap: ;D
Quote from: DakRadz on July 16, 2011, 01:29:33 AM
Quote from: dogboy on July 16, 2011, 01:11:48 AM
If you read the story, you'll discover the Supreme Commander is doing 3 years in the can.
Too much Chinese?
Rimshot!
I dont know which is worse
The fact that they have a website or the fact that I've found their website.
As you can see from the website the American Volunteer Reserve was founded by Gabachos but really caught on among Chinese and Vietnamese in Los Angeles. There have been numerous factions splintering off.
Here's another article about them and photo of them on parade. (The gold-red flag they are carrying is the flag of the former Republic of Viet-Nam (South Vietnam)
Orange County Register
Saturday, November 30, 2002
Faux reserves anger some officers
Volunteer group's members don medals and uniforms for funerals and
public events.
By JOHN GITTELSOHN
The Orange County Register
They wear olive drab, black berets and chestfuls of medals.
Uniformed "generals," "colonels" and "majors" serve on funeral details
at Riverside National Cemetery and ride in Westminster's Tet Festival
parades.
The officers of the United States Army Volunteer Reserve look like
real soldiers. They also offer a service that the military no longer
provides: color guards at veterans' cemeteries.
The U.S. Army Volunteer Reserve, which claims "hundreds" of members,
appears well-meaning. But many current and former members of the armed
forces say the volunteers, who do not carry arms, skate the legal
fringes with other groups and individuals who exaggerate or fabricate
their military credentials.
"They degrade those who earned their stars," said Craig Mandeville, a
retired Army lieutenant colonel from Huntington Beach. "They make a
mockery of the system."
Gen. Paul Monroe, commander of the California National Guard, said
that U.S. Army Volunteer Reservists look so authentic they could be
mistaken for the real thing.
"Some of these people with little or no military experience show up at
military events dressed as general officers," he said. "It's against
the law to impersonate a military officer, just as it's against the
law to impersonate a police officer."
Col. Bill Weir, judge advocate of the California National Guard, asked
the Pentagon to investigate the U.S. Army Volunteer Reserve in
October, after a member used the group's identification card to get
into Camp Roberts, an Army training base.
"We have concerns about the fact that this group has identification
cards that can be misleading, are using the Department of the Army
symbol and the National symbol (Eagle), and are using military rank,
uniforms, insignia and appurtenances in a way that appears
inappropriate," Weir wrote to his Army counterpart, who has not
responded.
Members of the U.S. Army Volunteer Reserve, many of whom are retired
veterans, say they serve the public good, embodying the spirit of
Teddy Roosevelt's Rough Riders who volunteered in the Spanish-
American War. But instead of storming hills in Cuba, today's
volunteers serve mostly by playing taps, firing salutes and folding
Old Glory at veterans' funerals.
"I'm putting something back into the community, not impersonating an
officer," said Michael Kissamitakis of Costa Mesa, a former Marine who
has appeared at more than 100 funerals at the Riverside National
Cemetery since joining the volunteer group. "We're not a bunch of
wanna- be's. We're not a redneck militia out playing war games.
We provide a mission: boots on graves."
The Volunteer Reserve is among 30 groups, from a Junior ROTC troop to
aging American Legionnaires, serving as color guards at Riverside
National Cemetery. The group also leads monthly services at Patriotic
Hall in Los Angeles in memory of veterans who died penniless.
"The government owes these veterans a debt of final honors," said Jack
Campbell, 77, of San Juan Capistrano, a U.S. Army Volunteer Reserve
captain. "We volunteer to provide the services they deserve."
The need for such volunteers has grown, with the full-time military
unable to provide funeral details to the estimated 1,700 World War II
vets dying each day. Jack Rice, funeral dispatcher at Riverside
National Cemetery, said he welcomes the volunteers and others willing
to provide dignified last rites to vets.
"We don't do a background investigation," Rice said.
Members of the U.S. Army Volunteer Reserve say they do not pretend to
be soldiers. They pay $35 annual dues and buy uniforms at Army supply
stores, altering the buttons and name tags to distinguish themselves
from real soldiers or Reserve members. Their unit patch is a large "V"
framing a small "U.S."
"We don't just go to the letter of the law - we exceed it," said Tom
Owens of Riverside, USAVR public-affairs officer. "We are not the
military."
But they look military in person and on paper. They have received no
recognition from the Pentagon, but the group's articles of
incorporation say its primary purpose is providing "Auxiliary duties
to the United States Department of Defense."
Its Web site - www.usavr.us - says members work "in conjunction with
the Federal Emergency Management Agency," a relationship FEMA
rejects.
"They have no authorization or permission to use the FEMA logo or to
refer to any relationship with the agency," said Jean Baker, a FEMA
spokeswoman.
The group was incorpor ated as the United States Volunteers two years
ago by Allen Baumann, 63, of Antelope Valley. Baumann said he retired
from the Army Reserve in 1989 as a lieutenant colonel but now wears a
major general's uniform.
"We commission officers directly," Baumann said. "The only requirement
is that they are U.S. citizens and age 18. We take everybody."
Internal dissent threatens Baumann's command. In April, Mike Teilmann,
a retired brigadier general with the South Carolina State Guard,
formed a splinter faction variously called the 9th Brigade U.S. Army
Volunteer Reserve or the American Volunteer Reserve.
"I always found Gen. Baumann to be an honorable man, but when we asked
for an accounting of funds, we were given a runaround," said
Teilmann,
a Hollywood publicity agent who also volunteers at the Los Angeles
airport USO. Baumann said Teilmann's faction only cares about the
social side of soldiering, not serving the country. He dismissed other
critics as know- nothings.
"I don't exhaust my resources on defending something we have a right
to as American citizens," he said.
But critics say Baumann is preying on new American citizens who know
little about the military. On Nov. 17, Baumann inducted two Vietnamese
Buddhist monks into his organization as chaplains with the rank of
captain. William Prajnya, 37, who fled Vietnam by boat in 1988, said
he understood he might be sent to duty at Camp Pendleton or Iraq,
though he has no prior military experience.
"I'm very happy, because I feel I can do something for Buddhist
people," said Prajnya (Thi'ch Ta^m Tha`nh), a security guard.
Owens, the USAVR spokesman, said sending his volunteers to the front
lines is a long shot but still a possibility. "I'd like somebody from
the DoD to ask if they could borrow them," he
said.
Mandeville, who won a Silver Star for combat gallantry in Vietnam,
said he got angry after seeing U.S. Army Volunteer Reserve members
acting like VIPs at ceremonies in Little Saigon, such as the Tet
Festival Parade and Vietnamese veterans days.
"They're treated as if they're the head of the 1st U.S. Division, but
they're a scam," Mandeville said. "They're taking advantage of people
who have a lot of respect for the military but don't always understand
things."
Sounds like he should be in CAP!
We had a guy just like him. He was the national Commander.
Quote from: dogboy on July 18, 2011, 02:02:50 AM
As you can see from the website the American Volunteer Reserve was founded by Gabachos but really caught on among Chinese and Vietnamese in Los Angeles. There have been numerous factions splintering off.
Here's another article about them and photo of them on parade. (The gold-red flag they are carrying is the flag of the former Republic of Viet-Nam (South Vietnam)
Orange County Register
Saturday, November 30, 2002
Faux reserves anger some officers
Volunteer group's members don medals and uniforms for funerals and
public events.
By JOHN GITTELSOHN
The Orange County Register
The officers of the United States Army Volunteer Reserve look like
real soldiers. They also offer a service that the military no longer
provides: color guards at veterans' cemeteries.
The U.S. Army Volunteer Reserve, which claims "hundreds" of members,
appears well-meaning. But many current and former members of the armed
forces say the volunteers, who do not carry arms, skate the legal
fringes with other groups and individuals who exaggerate or fabricate
their military credentials.
"They degrade those who earned their stars," said Craig Mandeville, a
retired Army lieutenant colonel from Huntington Beach. "They make a
mockery of the system."
Gen. Paul Monroe, commander of the California National Guard, said
that U.S. Army Volunteer Reservists look so authentic they could be
mistaken for the real thing.
"Some of these people with little or no military experience show up at
military events dressed as general officers," he said. "It's against
the law to impersonate a military officer, just as it's against the
law to impersonate a police officer."
Col. Bill Weir, judge advocate of the California National Guard, asked
the Pentagon to investigate the U.S. Army Volunteer Reserve in
October, after a member used the group's identification card to get
into Camp Roberts, an Army training base.
"We have concerns about the fact that this group has identification
cards that can be misleading, are using the Department of the Army
symbol and the National symbol (Eagle), and are using military rank,
uniforms, insignia and appurtenances in a way that appears
inappropriate," Weir wrote to his Army counterpart, who has not
responded.
Members of the U.S. Army Volunteer Reserve say they do not pretend to
be soldiers. They pay $35 annual dues and buy uniforms at Army supply
stores, altering the buttons and name tags to distinguish themselves
from real soldiers or Reserve members. Their unit patch is a large "V"
framing a small "U.S."
"We don't just go to the letter of the law - we exceed it," said Tom
Owens of Riverside, USAVR public-affairs officer. "We are not the
military."
I think the above is a very good example as to why we in CIVIL Air Patrol need to embrace our "distinctiveness" in our uniforms and also our identification cards. There should be NO question when anyone looks at us in CAP uniform to understand that we are in the CIVIL AIR PATROL. Nationwide we need a very good public relations/marketing program so the public knows how to ID us and knows WHAT WE DO ACCOMPLISH FOR THE NATION. I will readily admit that this is a big challenge for us, because overall the general pubic is inept at properly identifying military personnel, because only a small percentage have now served in the military, and likely most have no personal stake in the organization, so may not even pay attention to any media reports/presentations about us.
Let this serve as a warning. Our recent past history saw some things done that reduced our distinctiveness and it cost some members a good chunk of money.
RM
Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on July 25, 2011, 02:14:16 AMI think the above is a very good example as to why we in CIVIL Air Patrol need to embrace our "distinctiveness" in our uniforms and also our identification cards. There should be NO question when anyone looks at us in CAP uniform to understand that we are in the CIVIL AIR PATROL. Nationwide we need a very good public relations/marketing program so the public knows how to ID us and knows WHAT WE DO ACCOMPLISH FOR THE NATION. I will readily admit that this is a big challenge for us, because overall the general pubic is inept at properly identifying military personnel, because only a small percentage have now served in the military, and likely most have no personal stake in the organization, so may not even pay attention to any media reports/presentations about us.
Let this serve as a warning. Our recent past history saw some things done that reduced our distinctiveness and it cost some members a good chunk of money.
Blah, blah, blah.
How about, for starters, that unlike these goobers, and similar, we have a direct linage and operational part of a military service?
Something you seem to selectively forget or choose to simply ignore.
Quote from: Eclipse on July 25, 2011, 02:24:49 AM
Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on July 25, 2011, 02:14:16 AMI think the above is a very good example as to why we in CIVIL Air Patrol need to embrace our "distinctiveness" in our uniforms and also our identification cards. There should be NO question when anyone looks at us in CAP uniform to understand that we are in the CIVIL AIR PATROL. Nationwide we need a very good public relations/marketing program so the public knows how to ID us and knows WHAT WE DO ACCOMPLISH FOR THE NATION. I will readily admit that this is a big challenge for us, because overall the general pubic is inept at properly identifying military personnel, because only a small percentage have now served in the military, and likely most have no personal stake in the organization, so may not even pay attention to any media reports/presentations about us.
Let this serve as a warning. Our recent past history saw some things done that reduced our distinctiveness and it cost some members a good chunk of money.
Blah, blah, blah.
How about, for starters, that unlike these goobers, and similar, we have a direct linage and operational part of a military service?
Something you seem to selectively forget or choose to simply ignore.
I don't know. I don't see why we couldn't have PSAs called "How to Identify CIVIL Air Patrol Insignia" on TV, radio, and in full-page ads. Maybe billboards with a picture of a uniformed member and arrows pointing to different parts of the uniform...
Quote from: Eclipse on July 25, 2011, 02:24:49 AM
Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on July 25, 2011, 02:14:16 AMI think the above is a very good example as to why we in CIVIL Air Patrol need to embrace our "distinctiveness" in our uniforms and also our identification cards. There should be NO question when anyone looks at us in CAP uniform to understand that we are in the CIVIL AIR PATROL. Nationwide we need a very good public relations/marketing program so the public knows how to ID us and knows WHAT WE DO ACCOMPLISH FOR THE NATION. I will readily admit that this is a big challenge for us, because overall the general pubic is inept at properly identifying military personnel, because only a small percentage have now served in the military, and likely most have no personal stake in the organization, so may not even pay attention to any media reports/presentations about us.
Let this serve as a warning. Our recent past history saw some things done that reduced our distinctiveness and it cost some members a good chunk of money.
Blah, blah, blah.
How about, for starters, that unlike these goobers, and similar, we have a direct linage and operational part of a military service?
Something you seem to selectively forget or choose to simply ignore.
Well, your wrong on my attitude on that --- Because as the PAO I finally got the editor of the local paper to run the CAP Congressional Gold Medal Legislative Assistance from the Public story that National wanted us to try to get published that specifically talks about CAP's WW II service, and the editor actually added a sentence about our local unit being at the base for many years (we seem to think 50 years, but can't find a document to verify that, we can get it to 46 years based upon currently serving members documentation & memory, I was in the unit 1965 as a cadet). I don't think many of the unit PAO's within my wing were successful in this.
Hey, I understand our history and I want to see all our members known well as CIVIL AIR PATROL and the public understands what we are and what we do for the nation. HOWEVER, on the other hand they need to understand what we are not and what we don't do.
RM
Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on July 25, 2011, 03:30:02 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on July 25, 2011, 02:24:49 AM
Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on July 25, 2011, 02:14:16 AMI think the above is a very good example as to why we in CIVIL Air Patrol need to embrace our "distinctiveness" in our uniforms and also our identification cards. There should be NO question when anyone looks at us in CAP uniform to understand that we are in the CIVIL AIR PATROL. Nationwide we need a very good public relations/marketing program so the public knows how to ID us and knows WHAT WE DO ACCOMPLISH FOR THE NATION. I will readily admit that this is a big challenge for us, because overall the general pubic is inept at properly identifying military personnel, because only a small percentage have now served in the military, and likely most have no personal stake in the organization, so may not even pay attention to any media reports/presentations about us.
Let this serve as a warning. Our recent past history saw some things done that reduced our distinctiveness and it cost some members a good chunk of money.
Blah, blah, blah.
How about, for starters, that unlike these goobers, and similar, we have a direct linage and operational part of a military service?
Something you seem to selectively forget or choose to simply ignore.
Well, your wrong on my attitude on that --- Because as the PAO I finally got the editor of the local paper to run the CAP Congressional Gold Medal Legislative Assistance from the Public story that National wanted us to try to get published that specifically talks about CAP's WW II service, and the editor actually added a sentence about our local unit being at the base for many years (we seem to think 50 years, but can't find a document to verify that, we can get it to 46 years based upon currently serving members documentation & memory, I was in the unit 1965 as a cadet). I don't think many of the unit PAO's within my wing were successful in this.
Hey, I understand our history and I want to see all our members known well as CIVIL AIR PATROL and the public understands what we are and what we do for the nation. HOWEVER, on the other hand they need to understand what we are not and what we don't do.
RM
Interpretations run wild all the time when you give them the chance to. Cage 'em up by being a little more descriptive of what you are thinking, of course without writing an novel about it either.