Check out page 25 of the lastest AIR FORCE Magazine. Yes, it's an ad, but it features a CAP aircraft (N784CP) and the following paragraph:
When a routine air patrol becomes an uncommon challenge, the extraordinary vision of FLIR Systems' EO/IR systems proves invaluable. Our advanced sensors deliver greater clarity, range and mission flexibility for civilian-supported search-and-rescue, homeland security, and disaster reliefs operations. FLIR. Giving your Civil Air Patrol team the critical vision for mission success.
Edit: N784CP appears to be based in Alabama
What CAP aircraft have a FLIR? (The surrogate Predator is not a FLIR, its an L3 Wescam MX-15) or is FLIR trying to get us to buy one?
Your looking at about $250K for a FLIR 8000.
A couple times, my unit has gotten a fat envelope of propaganda from FLIR. Even with the cost, I guess they want to make sure if you need one, you know where to go.
Good press....remember OPSEC, people....you need to be checking with the proper people and not debating this issue in this forum.
^???
Quote from: flyboy1 on June 04, 2010, 10:17:26 PM
Good press....remember OPSEC, people....you need to be checking with the proper people and not debating this issue in this forum.
What OPSEC? We don't have FLIR. That's common knowledge.
Our squadron has a hand held FLIR unit issued by wing. 2 were purchased for the wing by the Arkansas Department of Emergency Management.
I think North Dakota Wing has FLIR.
Quote from: DG on June 05, 2010, 02:04:23 AM
I think North Dakota Wing has FLIR.
Aircraft mounted? If it's hand held it's just an IR camera not FLIR.
Debating what? It was in the AF Magazine! I dont know of anyone having a FLIR in CAP and if we did, it wouldnt be OPSEC. FLIR does make hand held models. Several of our detective units have them. FLIR is the name of the company that makes them, nothing more. Just like Gyrocam, L3 Wescam, Cineflex, etc. etc.
OPSEC. For pete's sake.
Thats just hilarious. The AFA magazine? ROTFL.
Quote from: Flying Pig on June 05, 2010, 03:47:56 AM
Debating what? It was in the AF Magazine! I dont know of anyone having a FLIR in CAP and if we did, it wouldnt be OPSEC. FLIR does make hand held models. Several of our detective units have them. FLIR is the name of the company that makes them, nothing more. Just like Gyrocam, L3 Wescam, Cineflex, etc. etc.
I didn't realize it was a trade name now. I thought it was still an acronym.
It is an acronym. Forward Looking Infra-Red. The FLIR company developed the acronym. They were the industry leader from day one, so from then on, everything was a FLIR. Great marketing. Make your company name the name of the technology. Even Gyrocam and the others people still refer to as FLIR's. The FLIR company has been around about 20 years.
Well, if we're concerned about OPSEC, then I guess we can thank Air Force Magazine & FLIR for a gigantic OPSEC fail. :P
Hint: Not everything is OPSEC.
Hint: Not everything is OPSEC.
That statement in itself could be OPSEC. Watch yourself kid.
Pssst...
FLIR Systems Announces Order of 20 EVS cameras as part of Civil Air Patrol program (http://www.avionicsinternational.com/newsdetail.aspx?nid=89&id=28)
...But don't tell anyone you heard it from me. ;)
Quote from: Flying Pig on June 05, 2010, 02:40:25 PM
Hint: Not everything is OPSEC.
That statement in itself could be OPSEC. Watch yourself kid.
The fact that the sole question my membership board used to ask potential members was "Are you, or have you ever been, an Al Quaeda-affiliated terrorist or person of interest?" might be OPSEC, too. :)
Quote from: NIN on June 05, 2010, 03:57:57 PM
Quote from: Flying Pig on June 05, 2010, 02:40:25 PM
Hint: Not everything is OPSEC.
That statement in itself could be OPSEC. Watch yourself kid.
The fact that the sole question my membership board used to ask potential members was "Are you, or have you ever been, an Al Quaeda-affiliated terrorist or person of interest?" might be OPSEC, too. :)
Not intentionally. College got pretty wild through.
Quote from: Flying Pig on June 05, 2010, 02:26:04 PM
It is an acronym. Forward Looking Infra-Red. The FLIR company developed the acronym. They were the industry leader from day one, so from then on, everything was a FLIR. Great marketing. Make your company name the name of the technology. Even Gyrocam and the others people still refer to as FLIR's. The FLIR company has been around about 20 years.
That's interesting. I worked around some stuff in the Navy in the early '80s (almost 30 years ago). The A-6E AN/AAS-33 TRAM turret, and the A-7E AN/AAR-42 FLIR pod come to mind, and neither were built by a company named FLIR. TRAM was a Hughes system, and AAR-42 was built by Texas Instruments.
Quote from: JThemann on June 05, 2010, 07:16:32 PM
Quote from: NIN on June 05, 2010, 03:57:57 PM
Quote from: Flying Pig on June 05, 2010, 02:40:25 PM
Hint: Not everything is OPSEC.
That statement in itself could be OPSEC. Watch yourself kid.
The fact that the sole question my membership board used to ask potential members was "Are you, or have you ever been, an Al Quaeda-affiliated terrorist or person of interest?" might be OPSEC, too. :)
Not intentionally. College got pretty wild through.
"Convicted? No, never convicted"
</John Winger>
I have been watching this subject with a certain amount of interest. Let someone who has been involved in aerial imaging since Nov 62 chime in. There may very well be a company named FLIR: I have no knowledge nor interest in investigating that claim. IR imaging systems have been in use in the military since at least 1962, but I can't remember when the forward looking IR came into use. I was trained to interpret the output of IR sensors in Army aircraft in 62/63: both in the OV-1 and RU-8D. IR was used in VN extensively: ask the VC who had their cooking fires interrupted by US artillery incoming.
What difference does it make whether one company or another is offering FLIR systems to CAP? None. It remains to be seen whether or not CAP buys some of them: then, the question becomes one of who gets trained to use them. It probably takes months to learn to interpret the images, so that will be a huge issue for CAP. If some of you folks remember one of the issues with the GA-8 and its sensor, you will recall that we still don't have a sufficient cadre of people who know how to use the imagery. Some of the operators claim to know how, but I have yet to meet one.
Nuff said!!!
infrared images are nothing special. Other than training on proper use and care of equipment, I don't think image interpretation is a real training issue.
Quote from: RiverAux on June 05, 2010, 10:12:38 PM
infrared images are nothing special. Other than training on proper use and care of equipment, I don't think image interpretation is a real training issue.
Spoken like a true non-imagery interpreter. Of course I am biased as I spend years of my life trying to keep my imagery interpreters full qualified and providing them with upgrade and advanced imagery interpretation training. Bosshawk is right about the training issue.
FLIR is a trademark name of FLIR systems Inc. Its important to distinguish between the trade name and the fact the company makes various imagery products, and a lot of things get lumped into one. There are Infrared imagery systems, which are little more than CCD video cameras(Like the ARCHER) and view images from reflected infrared or near Infrared light, thermal imagery systems that view "heat" as light and can see through walls (much more expensive and high tech) and Light intensification by photomultiplier tube (i.e. "Starlight" scopes) There is a degree of overlap between these separate technologies. They told un in the ARCHER seminar that we can't have the thermal capabilities because of fears of posse comitatus issues ( What Freud would have called an "Irrational Fear") So do these Alaskan aircraft have Thermal capabilities? Will we see this technology in use on our Southern border?
Major Lord
Quote from: Major Lord on June 05, 2010, 10:44:20 PM
So do these Alaskan aircraft have Thermal capabilities?
This is the info on the FLIR EVS3 system reportedly purchased for Alaska last year:
http://www.flir.com/cvs/americas/en/aviation/products/evs3/
Quote from: Short Field on June 05, 2010, 10:38:21 PM
Quote from: RiverAux on June 05, 2010, 10:12:38 PM
infrared images are nothing special. Other than training on proper use and care of equipment, I don't think image interpretation is a real training issue.
Spoken like a true non-imagery interpreter. Of course I am biased as I spend years of my life trying to keep my imagery interpreters full qualified and providing them with upgrade and advanced imagery interpretation training. Bosshawk is right about the training issue.
Actually spoken by someone that has used infrared imaging. I don't claim to be an expert on some of the fancier uses, but anything CAP is likely to use it for isn't going to be that big a deal.
Quote from: SarDragon on June 05, 2010, 07:37:41 PM
Quote from: Flying Pig on June 05, 2010, 02:26:04 PM
It is an acronym. Forward Looking Infra-Red. The FLIR company developed the acronym. They were the industry leader from day one, so from then on, everything was a FLIR. Great marketing. Make your company name the name of the technology. Even Gyrocam and the others people still refer to as FLIR's. The FLIR company has been around about 20 years.
That's interesting. I worked around some stuff in the Navy in the early '80s (almost 30 years ago). The A-6E AN/AAS-33 TRAM turret, and the A-7E AN/AAR-42 FLIR pod come to mind, and neither were built by a company named FLIR. TRAM was a Hughes system, and AAR-42 was built by Texas Instruments.
I'm willing to bet that FLIR was the sub-contractor who provided the FLIR sensor to Hughes and TI.
Quote from: SarDragon on June 05, 2010, 07:37:41 PM
Quote from: Flying Pig on June 05, 2010, 02:26:04 PM
It is an acronym. Forward Looking Infra-Red. The FLIR company developed the acronym. They were the industry leader from day one, so from then on, everything was a FLIR. Great marketing. Make your company name the name of the technology. Even Gyrocam and the others people still refer to as FLIR's. The FLIR company has been around about 20 years.
That's interesting. I worked around some stuff in the Navy in the early '80s (almost 30 years ago). The A-6E AN/AAS-33 TRAM turret, and the A-7E AN/AAR-42 FLIR pod come to mind, and neither were built by a company named FLIR. TRAM was a Hughes system, and AAR-42 was built by Texas Instruments.
Then I stand corrected.