Favorite Weapons

[teesquared]

Be very cautious of the 9mm.  It is NOT a very powerful round.  You will need multiple hits on target to have any effect.  The 9mm is one notch above a bb gun, in my combat-seasoned opinion. 

The 9mm is more properly classed with the .32, .380, and .25 caliber underpowered weapons.  The king of underpowered, but underpowered nevertheless.

I concur, it is a pocket pistol round. Good for the girl friend gun, and at its best in a submachine gun. Fortunately most Cappers are not coppers....and don't need to ventilate anything more dangerous than flat rectangular people with numbers on them...

Major Lord

I agree my 9mm is not exactly a barnbuster, but I figure I'm better off with a 9 that I can shoot well than a .45 that I can't. Also, I'm not sure I can justify the expenditure for a .40, which I would like.   

[Stonewall]

I have to agree with Yuma.  While, if given a choice, I'd take a .40 cal, but I'm not given a choice.  And honestly, it would just be a "feel good" option more than anything else.

Many people have died from one 9mm round and many people have died from one .40, .45, .38 and .22.  And like in my post above about a fellow officer being hit 5 times with a .45 at close range, to include 2 shots in the face, that just backs up many thoughts of shot placement over bullet size.

Please understand, I am not saying the heavier rounds are bad, worse than the 9mm or better.  If given the option to take one shot and one shot only, I'd jump on a .45 in a second.  But I'm confident if I had one shot with a 9mm and took a head shot or one directly in the heart, I'd kill the SOB.

Tell all the people killed with a 9mm that it's no good.  That's all I'm saying.

AGAIN.  I am not advocating the 9mm over others, just saying that it kills.

[JohnKachenmeister]

I have to agree with Yuma.  While, if given a choice, I'd take a .40 cal, but I'm not given a choice.  And honestly, it would just be a "feel good" option more than anything else.

Many people have died from one 9mm round and many people have died from one .40, .45, .38 and .22.  And like in my post above about a fellow officer being hit 5 times with a .45 at close range, to include 2 shots in the face, that just backs up many thoughts of shot placement over bullet size.

Please understand, I am not saying the heavier rounds are bad, worse than the 9mm or better.  If given the option to take one shot and one shot only, I'd jump on a .45 in a second.  But I'm confident if I had one shot with a 9mm and took a head shot or one directly in the heart, I'd kill the SOB.

Tell all the people killed with a 9mm that it's no good.  That's all I'm saying.

AGAIN.  I am not advocating the 9mm over others, just saying that it kills.

I agree it kills. 

A policewoman, and very good friend of mine, confronted a thug armed with a .38 revolver.  She got off one shot, and it pierced the heart.  Even AFTER that shot, the thug got off 4 shots, all striking the officer.  She is back to work now, but was off for more than a year.

In another case, two officers tried to arrest a thug in a motel room.  He jumped off the bed (that he was sharing with a naked 12-year-old boy) and began firing a .380 at the police.  He was hit with a total of ten 9mm bullets, mostly in the torso.  He continued firing at the police until his weapon was empty.  He died waiting for the ambulance.  The only reason cops were not hurt was the fact that he was also using a lady's gun, and the officers' vests stopped the rounds.

One of the traffic cops I had lunch with every day was close to a domestic violence call, and went there to back up the street crews.  The guy came out of the house, and when my friend told him to stop (he was headed for a car) he drew a .357 and fired one shot.  My friend fired five 9mm shots at the suspect, and he fled into a wooded area behind the house.  He managed to get about 100 yards into the woods, which is where we eventually found his body.

Just after I retired, the police department scrapped the 9mm and went to the .40 caliber.  A 9mm is accurate, but you need multiple shots on target to have any effect.  We began to train for "Tac-Tac" shooting when we transitioned to the 9mm.  We never trained for multiple shots/hits with the .38 specials that we formerly carried. 

[Nathan]

"If you don't think a .22 can kill someone, you might be right. I've never tested it, but since you seem so confident, go stand against that wall, and let me put a few holes in you to test your theory."
-My firearms instructor

[isuhawkeye]

the .22 long rifle bullet kills more people every year than any other round on the market. 

I cant site my source.  Can anyone help

[Major Lord]

the .22 long rifle bullet kills more people every year than any other round on the market. 

I cant site my source.  Can anyone help

I think the 9mm was the world's most frequently succesful ( if thats the right word...) killing pistol round, and the .22 was the most frequent round people were shot with in America. (not the most lethal, but they make up for it in quantity) There are lots and lots of .22's out there and I have seen lots of dead guys with holes from them. I forgot the name of the author of the definitive study, but someone out there will will remember it. If I had to tender a guess, I would say the 7.62 X 39mm round is probably the most common lethal GSW worldwide. ( Although I would happily like to think it is the 5.56)

Major Lord

[pixelwonk]

I considered building a smaller one once and almost did.  Physics teacher said no way.  He knew me all too well and knew I'd destroy something expensive or important.  (I was very destructive physics student - most people wouldn't think you can get a marshmallow up to 250mph...proved them wrong.)  He stopped letting students build large scale weapons after someone built a 20ft tall trebuchet that could launch a bowling ball over 100 yards.

And thus the reason our school would call you guys the Hamilton nerd herd.   

[afgeo4]

the .22 long rifle bullet kills more people every year than any other round on the market. 

I cant site my source.  Can anyone help

I think the 9mm was the world's most frequently succesful ( if thats the right word...) killing pistol round, and the .22 was the most frequent round people were shot with in America. (not the most lethal, but they make up for it in quantity) There are lots and lots of .22's out there and I have seen lots of dead guys with holes from them. I forgot the name of the author of the definitive study, but someone out there will will remember it. If I had to tender a guess, I would say the 7.62 X 39mm round is probably the most common lethal GSW worldwide. ( Although I would happily like to think it is the 5.56)

Major Lord

One of the things that is most lethal about the .22 round is actually its own lack of power. Instead of shattering bone and moving smoothly through tissue it tends to bounce around inside the body, ripping it to pieces.

[Johnny Yuma]

Coincidence: I'm currently taking a break from reloading .357 Magnums for my new Ruger GP100.

Tonight's recipe: 158 and 180 grain Hornady XTP's!

Bottom line: You use whatever you can reliably hit center mass using the best bullet in that caliber. Repeat if necessary. In an SD situation you may very well need to fire several shots before the BG goes down, the stats bear that out.

[♠SARKID♠]

I considered building a smaller one once and almost did.  Physics teacher said no way.  He knew me all too well and knew I'd destroy something expensive or important.  (I was very destructive physics student - most people wouldn't think you can get a marshmallow up to 250mph...proved them wrong.)  He stopped letting students build large scale weapons after someone built a 20ft tall trebuchet that could launch a bowling ball over 100 yards.

And thus the reason our school would call you guys the Hamilton nerd herd.   

Nothing wrong with that

[Psicorp]

Be very cautious of the 9mm.  It is NOT a very powerful round.  You will need multiple hits on target to have any effect.  The 9mm is one notch above a bb gun, in my combat-seasoned opinion. 

The 9mm is more properly classed with the .32, .380, and .25 caliber underpowered weapons.  The king of underpowered, but underpowered nevertheless.

Your concern is noted and appreciated.  I did a lot of research before choosing the 9mm, and I'm comfortable with the trade offs.   If you're talking FMJ rounds, then yeah, I can see "bb gun" reference, but they've come a long way with JHPs.   A good read:  http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_3_48/ai_82551648/pg_1

There are some people who believe that you're only supposed to use a handgun to fight your way to your rifle.   There's an endless supply of opinions out there, and that's a good thing.

[JohnKachenmeister]

Jamie:

The examples I cited were with JHP rounds.  I have never seen policemen carry FMJ rounds, except on the range.

[Flying Pig]

Be very cautious of the 9mm.  It is NOT a very powerful round.  You will need multiple hits on target to have any effect.  The 9mm is one notch above a bb gun, in my combat-seasoned opinion. 

The 9mm is more properly classed with the .32, .380, and .25 caliber underpowered weapons.  The king of underpowered, but underpowered nevertheless.

Your concern is noted and appreciated.  I did a lot of research before choosing the 9mm, and I'm comfortable with the trade offs.   If you're talking FMJ rounds, then yeah, I can see "bb gun" reference, but they've come a long way with JHPs.   A good read:  http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_3_48/ai_82551648/pg_1

There are some people who believe that you're only supposed to use a handgun to fight your way to your rifle.   There's an endless supply of opinions out there, and that's a good thing.

That sounds good in theory.   However, in the 3 shootings I have been in, my rifle was locked in its rack in my car, and getting back to it wasn't an option and the scenario was over by the time I would have the chance.

For many of the people on this forum who carry off duty or concealed with your CCW, you probably don't have a rifle to make your way to anyway. 

As far as caliber, it about where those bullets hit.  Most 9mm are up over 1000 fpm +.  The problem with them is usually over penetration.  I currently carry a .45 because its dept mandated.  If I had to choose I would probably go with a .40

Tags and tag spacing - MIKE

[Johnny Yuma]

Jamie:

The examples I cited were with JHP rounds.  I have never seen policemen carry FMJ rounds, except on the range.

Betcha saw lots of revolvers with lead round nose in the early days though?

[JohnKachenmeister]

Sure.  Me and Wyatt Earp.

Seriously, there was only one or two small departments still using lead round-nose when I was a rookie.  Most of us used semi-jacketed hollow point.

[afgeo4]

I don't know. I think a 9mm is a perfectly fine back-up weapon.

[SARMedTech]

I remember when my retired LEO father was forced to give up his beloved .357mag 4", he told my mother "If I am ever killed in a gun fight, and there are fewer than 3 rounds fired out of my semi-auto, bring a wrongful death suit against the [darn] department."

[Flying Pig]

I remember when Departments started buying Glocks, you heard the same thing from officers who swore they were going to be killed when their "plastic" gun failed.  Isn't change fun!

[DogCollar]

My favorite weapon?  A Swiss Army knife and a sharp sense of humor!!!

[bricktonfire]

here are my other favorite weapons
M4A1
and glock with tac light