Getting rid of the AF service uniform

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I hate to distract from the main topic, but there have been a few occasions since I have been a Squadron Commander on an Air Force Base where Air Force Officers (the Base Commander being one of them) has asked why we all wear different uniforms and was surprised to hear the Air Force does not allow all "volunteers" to wear the same uniform.  I am sure I am not the only person this question has been asked of.

I also have a heavy Cadet who now has to wear corporate uniforms because he turned 18 two weeks ago.  I actually had to sit him and his mother down and tell them he has to buy a different uniform.  I was afraid I would lose him over the issue.  (The Squadron actually bought the uniform for him)

I have had several Air Force personnel say similar things about the multitude of uniforms.  One former AF Chaplain said it was silly that we still didn't have the blue epaulettes with "CAP" embroidery.

My  :clap: on how you handled a sensitive issue with the Cadet and his mother.

[Eclipse]

I hate to distract from the main topic, but there have been a few occasions since I have been a Squadron Commander on an Air Force Base where Air Force Officers (the Base Commander being one of them) has asked why we all wear different uniforms and was surprised to hear the Air Force does not allow all "volunteers" to wear the same uniform.  I am sure I am not the only person this question has been asked of.

I have found a direct conversation, including quoting the appropriate AFI's and perhaps involving the SD generally clear these situations right up.

I also have a heavy Cadet who now has to wear corporate uniforms because he turned 18 two weeks ago.  I actually had to sit him and his mother down and tell them he has to buy a different uniform.  I was afraid I would lose him over the issue.  (The Squadron actually bought the uniform for him)

If this was news to the cadet or his mother on his 18th birthday, someone failed, whether the Unit CC or the cadet himself.  This is not remotely new.

[NCRblues]

I do not think he was saying that is something new, but i believe he was trying to stress how stupid our uniform regulations are...

He is still a cadet and should be allowed to wear the AF blues until he turns senior member (but this is one of my pet peeves anyway)

Our uniform regulations are crazy, you can wear one uniform (unless your fat and fuzzie) than if you are either of those two things than you can wear CSU (unless you are fuzzie than that's a no go) or grays with no ribbons which ticts off the fat and fuzzie population..... and on and on....really what a massive @&$^ storm....

And now i guess we are going to have a uniform committee to look at uniform ideas and present them to the NB? NEC? CAP/CC? Then what? back to the politicking and posturing? I mean i think its a step in the right direction but I'm still at a lose i guess..... I have been in cap for 11 years but man oh man do i really hate this uniform situation.

Hm...maybe we can get a government bailout 

[Spike]

I also have a heavy Cadet who now has to wear corporate uniforms because he turned 18 two weeks ago.  I actually had to sit him and his mother down and tell them he has to buy a different uniform.  I was afraid I would lose him over the issue.  (The Squadron actually bought the uniform for him)

If this was news to the cadet or his mother on his 18th birthday, someone failed, whether the Unit CC or the cadet himself.  This is not remotely new.

No, I did not say it was a surprise to me or anyone else.  However it was something I had to do before his birthday and was a sensitive area.  That is why I had his Mother come in with him.  I wanted to make sure we all were on the same page and I was not enforcing this rule because I did not like her Son.

It obviously could turn out good or bad.  We can either lose the Cadet or keep him depending on how wronged he feels about it.  I have to enforce something I do not agree with at all, but as the Commander I will comply.  It was not a conversation I like having with Adults let alone a Cadet who has worn an AF-style uniform for five years previously.  It is silly to think that one day it is ok for the heavy Cadet to be seen in BDU's, but 12 hours later something makes him more visible to the general public, thus he can not wear the BDU's??

That is my reasoning here.  When hours dictate what a heavy Cadet can wear, what the heck is going on??  Those hours between 17 and 18 are not some "magical" time frame where he suddenly becomes visible to the Air Force.  the Air Force knew of him, his heaviness yet allowed him to wear the uniform but some arbitrary date dictates his movement from one class of Cadet to another.

Trust me, a Cadet wearing blues and a Cadet wearing corporate is very distinct and does create a "class structure".     

[Fuzzy]

That absolutely sucks. But the arbitrary date thing doesn't really hold water. At least not anymore than the fact that at the age of 21, I am arbitrarily not allowed to be a cadet and in the same hour I am arbitrarily allowed to drink.

[Eclipse]

That absolutely sucks. But the arbitrary date thing doesn't really hold water. At least not anymore than the fact that at the age of 21, I am arbitrarily not allowed to be a cadet and in the same hour I am arbitrarily allowed to drink.

Lines must be drawn somewhere - welcome to adulthood.  There are certain years than bring change to your universe.

At 18 & 21 doors open, at 35 doors start closing.  Its the circle of life.

[Fuzzy]

That was sort of my point. Not sure if you were agreeing with me or not...

[Slim]

Too bad, but it's USAF's loss...typical rigid thinking...or are they trying to convince the troops that CAP chaplains are AF chaplains?

Isn't that actually part of the reasoning?  So that an Airman needing counseling will feel he is talking to someone from the USAF family?

So I have to assume they only serve in blues, then?  No field uniforms?  Because they would soon stick out pretty well anyway, regardless.

During our encampment last year, we shared the facility with an ANG comm unit from a neighboring state.  Said unit's chaplain was actually a CAP chaplain in this program.  He contacted our commander ahead of time, and offered his services to us in his CAP role on a non-conflicting basis with his duties to the guard unit.

When he stopped by to introduce himself the first day, he showed up wearing ABUs, with CAP insignia (tapes, grade and chaplain's insignia, and wing patch).  We questioned it right away, and he said he had special permission from NHQ to wear that uniform to "fit in with the unit."  None of us knew that was possible, but nobody pushed the issue as it was only for a few days, then they were gone

He stopped in to HQ once or twice a day to check in, but mostly just backstopped our chaplain and CDO.

[Eclipse]

No one is asking me, but I don't personally think the intention of the CAP Chaplain corps is supposed to be quasi-permanent assignment to real-military troops to the point of wearing their uniforms, etc.  To me the idea is occasional support when no one else is available on an emergency basis.

If you have a CAP Chaplain who has to deconflict service to a military unit so he can do CAP duties, that is backwards.

[Spike]

^ Agreed!

Also, how could CAP-USAF give permission to wear anything but our modified AF-Style uniforms?  That means there is a double standard here.  Not right in my book. 

[DogCollar]

Is it possible that the ABG commander never asked for approval from CAP-USAF? 

[wuzafuzz]

When he stopped by to introduce himself the first day, he showed up wearing ABUs, with CAP insignia (tapes, grade and chaplain's insignia, and wing patch).  We questioned it right away, and he said he had special permission from NHQ to wear that uniform to "fit in with the unit."  None of us knew that was possible, but nobody pushed the issue as it was only for a few days, then they were gone.

ROFLMAO 

We do goofy things with uniforms so frequently I bet could invent my own uniform, claim it is authorized by an obsure ICL, and get away with it for a while.     Many people would just shrug and think "here we go again." 

Maybe I'll wear a red Star Trek shirt for a few hours at the next SAREX.  No one thinks twice when a red shirt disappears...   

[lordmonar]

Maybe I'll wear a red Star Trek shirt for a few hours at the next SAREX.  No one thinks twice when a red shirt disappears...   

Lt Redundant and Flight Officer Expendable please report to OPS for a ground team mission! 

[tdepp]

Maybe I'll wear a red Star Trek shirt for a few hours at the next SAREX.  No one thinks twice when a red shirt disappears...   

Lt Redundant and Flight Officer Expendable please report to OPS for a ground team mission! 

He's dead, Jim.

[Short Field]

I am looking for a Bozo the Clown costume to start wearing on ground teams and mission base activities.  As Ned pointed out, there is no requirement to wear a CAP uniform unless it is a cadet activity or you are flying in a CAP airplane.   

[Eclipse]

Unless you have the required equipment for a given qualification, you are not allowed to perform in that capacity.  One of the first things on the list for Ground Team & UDF members is a Uniform. 

No uniform, no qualification, no play.

I don't know where Ned is coming up with this assertion that uniforms aren't required during ES.

[lordmonar]

I am looking for a Bozo the Clown costume to start wearing on ground teams and mission base activities.  As Ned pointed out, there is no requirement to wear a CAP uniform unless it is a cadet activity or you are flying in a CAP airplane.   

Green Tutus, Hunter Orange leotards, Yellow Elf Shoes, black sequined leather vests, and of course white helmet liners.

I'm your GBD...so I get to dictate uniforms!

[PHall]

Unless you have the required equipment for a given qualification, you are not allowed to perform in that capacity.  One of the first things on the list for Ground Team & UDF members is a Uniform. 

No uniform, no qualification, no play.

I don't know where Ned is coming up with this assertion that uniforms aren't required during ES.

Table 1-1, CAPM 39-1.

[Ned]

I am looking for a Bozo the Clown costume to start wearing on ground teams and mission base activities.  As Ned pointed out, there is no requirement to wear a CAP uniform unless it is a cadet activity or you are flying in a CAP airplane.   

Please re-read my post.  I was pointing out that it was only recently that the requirement was put into effect.  I agree that uniforms are required for all activites now, but that was not always the case.

For most of our history, uniforms were only required for conducting the cadet program and flying.

Really.  Just re-read what I wrote.

[Hawk200]

Please re-read my post.  I was pointing out that it was only recently that the requirement was put into effect.  I agree that uniforms are required for all activites now, but that was not always the case.

I'm glad I'm not the only one to think so. I still have some issues with members that don't agree that one is required for the course of CAP duties. They want to show up in their shorts and flops, and get mad when I tell them it isn't appropriate.

For most of our history, uniforms were only required for conducting the cadet program and flying.

That change wasn't even all that long ago. I think it was with the 2005 39-1 that it stated it was a requirement.