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Shooting at Luke AFB

Started by Flying Pig, February 25, 2010, 05:09:00 PM

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Flying Pig

February 25, 2010, 05:09:00 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,587217,00.html

Lesson #1. Dont try to run over the security officer.

raivo

#1
February 25, 2010, 05:58:02 PM
I'm not entirely sure how driving a car through a barricade onto a military base could have possibly seemed like a good idea to anyone.

CAP Member, 2000-20??
USAF Officer, 2009-2018
Recipient of a Mitchell Award Of Irrelevant Number

"No combat-ready unit has ever passed inspection. No inspection-ready unit has ever survived combat."

Gunner C

#2
February 25, 2010, 06:25:45 PM Last Edit: February 25, 2010, 06:29:23 PM by Gunner C
Important Safety Tip:

Never piss off the guy at the gate with the gun!

Haven't determined cause of death?  Hint:  Look for holes in chest approximately .38" in diameter (9mm for you metric Canadians).  :)

Flying Pig

#3
February 25, 2010, 06:44:56 PM Last Edit: February 25, 2010, 06:52:30 PM by Flying Pig
I prefer .45

Good job on the Cop.  This is ONLY speculation, but I think the military breeds MPs to be VERY hesitant about Officer Involved Shootings.  And rightly so, but I am glad to see the cop did his job.
When I was in the Marines, MPs were not allowed to carry a round chambered.  In fact, I used to watch them at the range, draw their M9's, rack the slide and shoot.  Is that still the case or have we grown up?

swamprat86

#4
February 25, 2010, 06:49:21 PM
When I was in an MP unit in '99 that was still the case.  Although with our current mission I hope that isn't the case anymore.

Gunner C

#5
February 25, 2010, 06:53:34 PM
Quote from: Flying Pig on February 25, 2010, 06:44:56 PM
I prefer .45

Good job in the Cop.  This is ONLY speculation, but I think the military breeds MPs to be VERY hesitant about Officer Involved Shootings.  And rightly so, but I am glad to see the cop did his job.
When I was in the Marines, MPs were not allowed to carry a round chambered.  In fact, I used to watch them at the range, draw their M9's, rack the slide and shoot.  Is that still the case or have we grown up?
That's because of risk averse officers.  If one of your MPs shoots himself in the leg, your battalion commander will shoot your career.

Flying Pig

#6
February 25, 2010, 07:04:46 PM
HA...When I was in Marine Security Forces, we had two young PFCs standing post quick drawing on each other in the guard hut.  I don't think the idea was to actually shoot each other....however, strangely enough, one of the PFCs ended up with a 9mm round through his palm, traveled down his forearm and exited his elbow.  Oh, and they werent supposed to have rounds chambered either.  Cant fix stupid.

Ned

#7
February 25, 2010, 07:14:04 PM
WIWOAD after 9/11, one of my guys managed to shoot himself in the buttocks with his M9.

Very Gumpish.   8)

Major Lord

#8
February 25, 2010, 07:17:23 PM
Ned,

Was that the lad at the airport?

Major Lord
"The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he, who in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee."

The CyBorg is destroyed

#9
February 25, 2010, 08:22:17 PM
Did either or both of them take stupid pills before they did that? ::)
Exiled from GLR-MI-011

jimmydeanno

#10
February 25, 2010, 08:29:38 PM
I thought they installed the pop-up barriers at all the AFBs now.  I know that the last 5 bases I've been to have had weave lanes, spike strips and pop-up barriers.  I wouldn't even attempt to try to run the gate.
If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law. - Winston Churchill

MSG Mac

#11
February 25, 2010, 08:47:50 PM
The idea of having a weapon is to be able to shoot when needed, not take time to lock and load. The M1911 had 4 safeties and I'm sure the M-9 has just as many. That extra 2 or 3 seconds could mean a good guy's life.
Michael P. McEleney
Lt Col CAP
MSG USA (Retired)
50 Year Member

Major Lord

#12
February 25, 2010, 09:05:45 PM
Israel has been training their people in the un-chambered method for years. Although I think its not a good idea, it keeps soldiers, whose primary weapons are generally not pistols from having a lot of Ad's ( or ND's as the new terminology goes)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRdZ3hZ8y-w

I have met a couple of guys who could get rounds on the target faster this way than I could draw a 1911 in condition one from concealment and hit anything, but it is generally slower. Some argue that the extra time involved might help you to keep from smoking a bystander. I don't subscribe to the unloaded carry method myself. ( Although in California, you can legally carry an unloaded firearm in public, with full magazines on your belt, you had better be prepared to be challenged by almost every cop you come into contact with)


Major Lord
"The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he, who in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee."

NCRblues

#13
February 25, 2010, 11:55:55 PM
Air Force Security Forces carry the M-9 on fire with a round in the chamber.

No officer wants to be involved in something like this but good for him/her for defending him/her self.
In god we trust, all others we run through NCIC

wuzafuzz

#14
February 25, 2010, 11:58:54 PM
Quote from: MSG Mac on February 25, 2010, 08:47:50 PM
The idea of having a weapon is to be able to shoot when needed, not take time to lock and load. The M1911 had 4 safeties and I'm sure the M-9 has just as many. That extra 2 or 3 seconds could mean a good guy's life.
Not to mention that requires your second hand.  If that isn't "handy" you're toast.
"You can't stop the signal, Mal."

Flying Pig

#15
February 26, 2010, 12:40:38 AM
The military has never been the leader in law enforcement tactics at the patrol level.

PHall

#16
February 26, 2010, 02:05:27 AM
Quote from: MSG Mac on February 25, 2010, 08:47:50 PM
The idea of having a weapon is to be able to shoot when needed, not take time to lock and load. The M1911 had 4 safeties and I'm sure the M-9 has just as many. That extra 2 or 3 seconds could mean a good guy's life.

You can draw, put the selector on FIRE and pull the trigger with one hand on the M-9 with no problem.
You might need both hands if they're out past 25 yards and you need to steady the weapon...

Stonewall

#17
February 26, 2010, 02:09:09 AM Last Edit: February 26, 2010, 02:12:25 AM by Stonewall
USAF: M9 off SAFE, round in chamber
Navy/USMC: M9 on SAFE, round in chamber
Army: M9 on SAFE, no round in chamber <--Crazy

Note:  The above discription is for Military Law Enforcement personnel while on "routine patrol/gate duty".  This does not demonstrate how troops of any branch are carrying in theater.

I went to a Navy range with some MAs (master at arms - their version of SF/MP) and almost half drew their M9s and couldn't fire the first round because they forgot to take it off SAFE.

Believe it or not, the AF has it right when it comes to carrying M9s on duty.

Some may say the M4 is the primary weapon, not the M9.  But while on patrol on a CONUS base, your M4 is carried with a magazine inserted, but no round chambered.  IMHO, the condition of the M4 just made my M9 my primary weapon.  If given time to charge my M4, then sure, I'd engage the bad guys with my M4.
Colonel, CAP (Ret)
1987-1992 (Cadet)
1992-2025 (Senior)

Major Lord

#18
February 26, 2010, 02:39:43 AM
Stonewall,

Roger that. I have never understood the lawyer-think that goes on when you order your people to carry a double action auto on safe, or god forbid, with the chamber empty. You never need a pistol until you need one badly.....Its a little off topic, but my daily carry gun is a single action 1911 style ( Strayer Voight Infinity) in .40 SW always carried condition one ( cocked, safety on for the non gun guys) and a Kahr K40 as my backup. Even then, I feel "light" without an 870 or an AR nearby....

Major Lord
"The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he, who in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee."

Spike

#19
February 26, 2010, 03:47:12 AM
Quote from: Stonewall on February 26, 2010, 02:09:09 AM
USAF: M9 off SAFE, round in chamber
Navy/USMC: M9 on SAFE, round in chamber
Army: M9 on SAFE, no round in chamber <--Crazy

A throwback to when most Army Posts were open and ANYONE could just drive on.  Fort Lewis was always open to anyone, until 9/11.  As was many other Posts.  Fort McClellan (when it was one) was a tourist attraction in Alabama for years.  About the only cool thing in Alabama anyway.  Now, certain locations have always been closed but not like it is today.

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