ICL for Phaseout of CSU posted

[Eclipse]

Last night as I was getting dressed for a unit visit (putting on my security guard jacket), I tried on the CSU jacket with the
gray pants - it looks very sharp, and would be clearly distinctive.

This is the simplest, most uniform solution for all - allow the CSU jacket, as per the latest ICL, to be worn as an option with the
aviator whites / gray pants combination for those who are so inclined or have the need, including headgear when worn this way.

Stamp it approved, move on, everyone is happy.

[Fuzzy]

Makes too much sense.

[vmstan]

Stamp it approved, move on, everyone is happy.

Except the Air Force.

[cap235629]

Last night as I was getting dressed for a unit visit (putting on my security guard jacket), I tried on the CSU jacket with the
gray pants - it looks very sharp, and would be clearly distinctive.

This is the simplest, most uniform solution for all - allow the CSU jacket, as per the latest ICL, to be worn as an option with the
aviator whites / gray pants combination for those who are so inclined or have the need, including headgear when worn this way.

Stamp it approved, move on, everyone is happy.

How about this FOR EVERYONE:

Pick a uniform grey pant that is heather grey and will be stocked by Vanguard

Ditch the blue shirt in favor of the white ones (even allow Army version)

Modify the AF Service Coat with CAP Buttons, change cut outs to CAP continue to wear epaulet sleeves.

Continue with current headgear and outer garments for AF style (ditch silver hat band)

Adopt this uniform as the CAP Service Dress Uniform for ALL members.

Distinctive, yet harkens to Ma Blue and could NEVER be confused with an AF uniform. Presents uniform appearance with cadets and AF members

This will keep costs for acquisition relatively equal across the entire membership.

ONE UNIFORM FOR ALL AND ALL FOR ONE UNIFORM!

[Fuzzy]

Honestly I don't see whats the big deal about two sets of uniforms.

[Strick]

NEGATIVE GHOST RIDER

[Strick]

At this point Iam just going to wear my flight suit every where

[Fuzzy]

At this point Iam just going to wear my flight suit every where

Were not supposed to???

[Strick]

It's a joke

[Fuzzy]

I was playing along with it 

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Pick a uniform grey pant that is heather grey and will be stocked by Vanguard

Ditch the blue shirt in favor of the white ones (even allow Army version)

Modify the AF Service Coat with CAP Buttons, change cut outs to CAP continue to wear epaulet sleeves.

Continue with current headgear and outer garments for AF style (ditch silver hat band)

I see what you're getting at (I think), but again, maybe this is just me, but why do the trousers have to be grey?

Again I wonder if CAP is so snakebitten by the whole CSU thing that we've become frightened of blue...?

Why not navy blue, or even black, airline aircrew trousers?

I'm good with the white shirt, but I'd be even better with an airline-issue blue shirt that is darker in shade than the AF.

I agree with you on the modifications to the AF Service Dress Jacket, but I would also replace the name-only brushed metal nameplate with the CSU-derived brushed metal one that says "Civil Air Patrol."  I see quite a few members wearing that (incorrectly) with the AF Service Dress.

Agreement also on the headgear, but for all this AF-issue stuff we'd have to get AF approval, and I think they'd be decidedly cool to things they haven't already got in place.

A better option, I believe, is to try and retain the CSU dress jacket with General Courter's modifications (and lose the silver sleeve braid).

[Eclipse]

Why not navy blue, or even black, airline aircrew trousers?

Because a LOT of people have gray trousers already, so it minimizes the impact and maintains distinctiveness.

[tdepp]

Last night as I was getting dressed for a unit visit (putting on my security guard jacket), I tried on the CSU jacket with the
gray pants - it looks very sharp, and would be clearly distinctive.

This is the simplest, most uniform solution for all - allow the CSU jacket, as per the latest ICL, to be worn as an option with the
aviator whites / gray pants combination for those who are so inclined or have the need, including headgear when worn this way.

Stamp it approved, move on, everyone is happy.

This is the sort of practical yet outside the box thinking that led me to nominate Eclipse as a judge for "Project CAP," the "Project Runway" uniform design competition.   

As I have noted elsewhere, I think the CSU double breasted dress uniform is attractive, distinctive, yet echoes our USAF roots.  But there's quite a bit of logic to Eclipse's substitution of the gray slacks for the current blue ones as that is already part of the corporate goin' to meetin' uni.  Like the USAF counterpart, add tie and jacket and you have an easy to assemble corporate dress uni.

Tell Gen. Courter we've got this all figured out now.     Next, let's see what Eclipse wants to do about unifying the flight suit situation.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Because a LOT of people have gray trousers already, so it minimizes the impact and maintains distinctiveness.

Understood.

But quite a few people (including me) have bought CSU components (though not as many as have gone to J.C. Penney's, Wal-Mart, etc. and bought off-the-rack grey pants) and we have to stop wearing those, though thankfully there is an extended sunset period.

There is no reason why a phase-in/phase out of grey trousers could not take place gradually.  We've done it before.  Remember the guyabera shirt, regimental ties, Smurf suits and blue CAP epaulettes?

I just don't understand why distinctiveness=grey.  Maybe I'm not meant to.

[tdepp]

I just don't understand why distinctiveness=grey.  Maybe I'm not meant to.

I have no idea about the history for the gray.  I'm guessing some of the seasoned members here know the reasons for it.   I have heard from some long time members about the awful maroon loops that we had to wear for a while.  I think the gray is distinctive and subtle, versus the maroon which was distinctive and loudly ugly.

[tdepp]

But quite a few people (including me) have bought CSU components (though not as many as have gone to J.C. Penney's, Wal-Mart, etc. and bought off-the-rack grey pants) and we have to stop wearing those, though thankfully there is an extended sunset period.

CyBorg, I'm with you on this.  I was shocked when I saw the CSU I had just bought was only going to be good for another year.  But I also knew the "job" was dangerous when I joined.   

I'd like to see the gray pants standardized as well since they are all over the map in terms of cut, quality, fabric, and color.  But I'm guessing this is a concession to expense, which is not unreasonable. 

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Next, let's see what Eclipse wants to do about unifying the flight suit situation.

Blue flight suit.

Also - does it have to be NOMEX?  After all, we're not riding rockets the way an F-16 driver does, and, as has been pointed out, not all aircrews wear a flight suit.  I've flown with pilots wearing flight suits, golf shirts and BDU's.

Non-NOMEX are a lot less of a hit on the wallet.

[Strick]

We used grey because many of are older senior memebers already had the grey trouser they wore durring the Civil War,they just had to sans the tunic..............

[Strick]

Next, let's see what Eclipse wants to do about unifying the flight suit situation.

Blue flight suit.

Also - does it have to be NOMEX?  After all, we're not riding rockets the way an F-16 driver does, and, as has been pointed out, not all aircrews wear a flight suit.  I've flown with pilots wearing flight suits, golf shirts and BDU's.


green flight suits are a heckof alot cheaper than the blue............stick with the green..............I would wear the blue but it is way to expensive.  I get neww green mil spec onesfor about 29.00 with the tag.   

Non-NOMEX are a lot less of a hit on the wallet.

[Platelet]

I just don't understand why distinctiveness=grey.  Maybe I'm not meant to.

I have no idea about the history for the gray.  I'm guessing some of the seasoned members here know the reasons for it.   I have heard from some long time members about the awful maroon loops that we had to wear for a while.  I think the gray is distinctive and subtle, versus the maroon which was distinctive and loudly ugly.

I visited a Squadron in Florida during the Maroon Period, I know many folks did not like the slides.
However, and I admit to being a history geek, I think the mistake was not going with BRIGHT RED shoulder straps and / or slides on the uniform combinations for Senior Members. Those who remember know that it was Red eppaulets which distinguished CAP from the USAAF.

While we are at it bring back the original CAP buttons, they were bright silver with the prop in trinangle symbol. The Hap Arnold button should belong to the AF. 

Can you imagine the CSU with RED eppaulets and shiny CAP buttons?  :clap:

Platelet