CAP Photos of 9/11- have they been released?

Started by Orville_third, February 13, 2010, 07:04:42 PM

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Orville_third

Recently, the National Institute of Standards & Technology released a number of photographs taken from the air during and after 9/11.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iKQtvU9zRF95RLI-rjN-hQxQJ-bgD9DPLJ780

I'm curious- did CAP have any photos released in this? Does CAP have files of said photos available for the public?
Captain Orville Eastland, CAP
Squadron Historian
Public Affairs Officer
Greenville Composite Squadron
SC Wing

alamrcn

Still makes me sick looking at that stuff... But those are some great vantage points that we haven't seen yet.



Ace Browning, Maj, CAP
History Hoarder
71st Wing, Minnesota

RiverAux

Its not like our photos were top secret.  Many have been utilized in various CAP publications.

DG

I know who took the photos.

On the day after the attack.

Spike

Quote from: DG on February 13, 2010, 08:43:14 PM
I know who took the photos.

On the day after the attack.

Do you want a coconut or chocolate chip cookie mailed to you??   >:D

Gunner C

IIRC, it was an NYPD helo that was orbiting the area, not one of our folks.  They were trying to land on the roof but there were too many guy wires, etc, not to mention toxic thick smoke.

There's nothing about that day that where you can find much of a ray of sunshine - only the heroics of the brave who gave their lives that day.  I can't watch news recounts of it.  Too painful, too sad, too much death.

a2capt

In the hours, and days to follow .. I recorded everything, I snagged everything, anything I could find. Pictures from web pages, newspapers, whatever. All the TV stuff.


Something really odd happened too, that morning that I had no idea I had done until some years later.


I had this really Rube Goldberg like contraption of stuff to record on, at the time, a Hi-8 shoulder camera that didn't record via the inbuilt tube very well anymore, but still made an excellent compact "deck", and having never owned a VHS machine I was doing my best to skip it until something better came along.


I had setup my semi-nightly timer to flip on the Hi-8 via a photo sensor glued to the front of the cable box, that when the cable box came on with it's inbuilt timer, (alarm clock), the LED channel display would light up, that in turn would "press" the power button on the Hi-8, and then three seconds later, "press" the record button. I say "press" because it was a circuit based on a capacitor that charged up (5 time constants) and caused a gate to close, then when it closed that triggered a solid state relay that was soldered to a connector on that Hi-8, that I hacked into the control panel. When the capacitor fully discharged again, a second relay would trigger record.


Of course, this meant I had to have the channel, and the ABCD box thing on the right spot so the SVHS video and line level audio got to the recorder.


Thats.. where things got interesting. Apparently through a twist of fate I missed the start time by 20 minutes, and I never took the cable box off CNN.


The contraption recorded CNN live that morning. Of course, when the whole mess started the first thing I did was hook up my MiniDV to another output and started recording too. Then I just started queueing up Hi8 tapes on two hour mode, one after the other for the next several days, between that an MiniDV tapes on different/same channels depending on which media I had more of, or was able to get to Wal*Mart/Costco and buy more of.


My point was, combined with the web pages and picture grabs, was to have it all. I was pretty upset, at the same time I was equally remembering past events that we never had as much media coverage of and I wanted to make that didn't happen again. Many newspapers were making their front pages and some whole sections available as PDF. Others were selling issues, mailing htem anywhere, from PayPal links online, etc. I grabbed all I could find.


The result was several CDs full, and a DVD or two after that. Over 200+ newspaper front pages in full size PDF alone.


I still can't bring myself to watch the stuff, or look at it, and not get really torqued.


But.. it's there.


I discovered the CNN feed some years later when I was looking at unlabeled tapes. I guess I took whatever was in the recorder that morning and just chucked it aside, and since it was at the opposite end of it's reels, I figured something was on it, check it later.


So I have the whole thing unfolding, and then several other DVDs, probably 10 in total, plus various documentaries on things like how they handled all the air traffic, getting all the planes on the ground. Then there was the History Channel, Modern Marvels episode on the WTC towers that was due to air about that time in the lineup, and was obviously delayed, and overlaid with commentary on how this was all filmed in earlier 2001, and presented now "as they were". They aired this some months later.


It's even getting to me right this moment, typing this.


Anyhow, it's also why I joined CAP, as I found a flyer in the pilot shop the week before Thanksgiving, and the unit was a couple miles away.


I do need to break that stuff out and make yet more copies of it, but if anyone is interested. ...


I even called a few local airport's ATIS and AWOS, and recorded the audio a few times.


Unprecedented events, and unprecedented response.

JayT

There's photos on the Long Island Group website.

However, after a while, looking at them becomes the worst sort of pornography.
"Eagerness and thrill seeking in others' misery is psychologically corrosive, and is also rampant in EMS. It's a natural danger of the job. It will be something to keep under control, something to fight against."

AirAux

What breaks my heart is thinking of all of those that jumped because they couldn't breathe and had no option..  I get severely depressed and want to punish those involved and the ones behind such hideous actions against innocent civilians..

DG

#9
Quote from: Spike on February 13, 2010, 09:03:27 PM
Quote from: DG on February 13, 2010, 08:43:14 PM
I know who took the photos.

On the day after the attack.

Do you want a coconut or chocolate chip cookie mailed to you??   >:D

Coconut would be nice.

One of the nice aspects of CAP is the privilege of being closer to and part of important missions in significant events.

Such as being good buddies with the guy who took the pictures on the CAP mission to photograph the World Trade Center destruction.  On the day after the attack.

Knowing and talking to and interacting with and being good buddies with and giving flight instruction back and forth with the CAP CFI mission pilot / observer who took the pictures over ground zero puts me closer to that significant event in US history.

He tells me the pilot over ground zero put the plane in a steep turn and did not deviate in airspeed or altitude.  The most perfect steep turn maneuvers(s) he has ever observed.  The pilot was focused.

Everybody was focused.  That day and for days afterward.

If you want your focus to be sending a coconut, then thanks for doing your part.

heliodoc

Good for you DG

Lots of us weren't so lucky to be part of history like you

Plenty of us were doing our part..

I was in a hell hole of a  UH 1H doing  inspections on the hook, underside of the deck, and many other Phase maintenance items.

I was, in fact, the last guy off the hangar floor, cuz they did not put "the word" out on the hangar floor.  Took me 20 minutes to realize that everyone was in another part of the facility watching the tube.

So you can say I was focused, too, just like your pilot, huh?

"Enjoy" your part of history.  Here's you coconut for being so humble in your thread......

Spike

DG!  Wow.  We are all part of history.  Saying "I knew the woman who was the second cousin of the guy who was friends with the brother of lady Gaga", does not mean you know Lady Gaga. 

My Friend worked in the World Trade Center (#3) and was in the building on 9/11.  That places me no more closer to the event than the guy in a Nebraska cornfield. 

Association with people is not the same as association by virtue.  If you were in the plane while the pictures were being taken, then yes.....you are part of that event.

Listening to a guy at the bar tell how he got through Vietnam does not mean I am part of that history.  I was not even alive then. 

On a side note, I am starting to get Cadets into the unit who can't remember 9/11 because they were too young at the time.  It makes me feel really old now!

FW

Quote from: Orville_third on February 13, 2010, 07:04:42 PM
Recently, the National Institute of Standards & Technology released a number of photographs taken from the air during and after 9/11.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iKQtvU9zRF95RLI-rjN-hQxQJ-bgD9DPLJ780

I'm curious- did CAP have any photos released in this? Does CAP have files of said photos available for the public?


Yes, they have been released to the public. I think they are still on our website. 
It's hard to believe it happened over 8 years ago.  I've been to "ground zero" a couple of times now and it still is a very emotional experience for me. >:(

Orville_third

I'm not so much interested in looking at it myself. However, as a historian, it can be useful in the future. (Including to evaluate future methods of photography.)
Captain Orville Eastland, CAP
Squadron Historian
Public Affairs Officer
Greenville Composite Squadron
SC Wing

NIN

#14
Quote from: heliodoc on February 14, 2010, 03:26:40 PM
[snip]
I was in a hell hole of a  UH 1H doing  inspections on the hook, underside of the deck, and many other Phase maintenance items.

I was, in fact, the last guy off the hangar floor, cuz they did not put "the word" out on the hangar floor.  Took me 20 minutes to realize that everyone was in another part of the facility watching the tube.

Yeah, I hate it when your buddies run off and leave you sitting on the hangar floor, completely jammed into the hellhole, and you keep hollering for tools and nobody answers :P 

(In my case, it was usually that time honored Army tradition known as "smokebreak," versus "terrorist attack") 

Heaven forbid something happened to you while you were wedged up in the belly of the beast and your buddies were off walking the dog.  (I wasn't claustrophobic until the first time I had to do some maintenance up in there..<GRIN>)
Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
I have no responsibilities whatsoever
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2024 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

SarDragon

I was sleeping when it happened. My CC called about 30 min after the second tower fell, and put us on standby for anything that might come down the pipe. I turned on the TV, and then proceeded to OD on the news. I still can't watch videos of the day's events. Apparently, I didn't learn from my similar experience in 1989 during the Loma Prieta earthquake (I was in Sunnyvale, CA).
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

raivo

Quote from: AirAux on February 14, 2010, 04:42:05 AM
What breaks my heart is thinking of all of those that jumped because they couldn't breathe and had no option..  I get severely depressed and want to punish those involved and the ones behind such hideous actions against innocent civilians..

Almost as bad was the footage of people in certain regions of the world (which shall remain nameless) celebrating in the streets.

War is terrible. I like explosions as much as the next guy, but every time I see a video of something getting blown up, I'm never *happy* knowing that someone just got killed.

It makes me immensely horrified whenever I see people taking satisfaction in death and destruction, rather than viewing it a terrible but necessary evil.

CAP Member, 2000-20??
USAF Officer, 2009-2018
Recipient of a Mitchell Award Of Irrelevant Number

"No combat-ready unit has ever passed inspection. No inspection-ready unit has ever survived combat."

BTCS1*

I an from NYC, and as a 2nd grader witnessed the attack and had a firefighter friend die in it. To this day, I cannot look at any pictures or video of the attack wihout breaking down. 
C/2d Lt. B. Garelick, CAP

flyboy53

So, the original question was where are the CAP photos now? You used to be able to go to a NHQ web page that detailed all CAP operations from that period, but the page was eliminated several years ago. Fortunately I copied everything, but the photos had an unusual format that meant when they were printed some information would be lost due to the size. The photographer is now a NER staffer. Perhaps we should all gang up (joking) on him at the next conference?

DG

Quote from: flyboy1 on February 17, 2010, 11:49:10 AM
So, the original question was where are the CAP photos now? You used to be able to go to a NHQ web page that detailed all CAP operations from that period, but the page was eliminated several years ago. Fortunately I copied everything, but the photos had an unusual format that meant when they were printed some information would be lost due to the size. The photographer is now a NER staffer. Perhaps we should all gang up (joking) on him at the next conference?


I went and looked at the Long Island Group website and photos.

The buddy I referenced was not in the picture!  So I called him.

Turns out, he did not fly September 12.  Rather he flew the next day.  He was the photographer in the Red, White, and Blue CAP aircraft depicted in the paintings that were done of the event.

The airplane in the Long Island Group photo can be seen to be an old paint scheme (not R/W/B).  My buddy tells me that the CAP plane and crew that flew September 12 was almost shot down by a NYPD helicopter.

JayT

Quote from: DG on February 17, 2010, 12:45:28 PM
Quote from: flyboy1 on February 17, 2010, 11:49:10 AM
So, the original question was where are the CAP photos now? You used to be able to go to a NHQ web page that detailed all CAP operations from that period, but the page was eliminated several years ago. Fortunately I copied everything, but the photos had an unusual format that meant when they were printed some information would be lost due to the size. The photographer is now a NER staffer. Perhaps we should all gang up (joking) on him at the next conference?


I went and looked at the Long Island Group website and photos.

The buddy I referenced was not in the picture!  So I called him.

Turns out, he did not fly September 12.  Rather he flew the next day.  He was the photographer in the Red, White, and Blue CAP aircraft depicted in the paintings that were done of the event.

The airplane in the Long Island Group photo can be seen to be an old paint scheme (not R/W/B).  My buddy tells me that the CAP plane and crew that flew September 12 was almost shot down by a NYPD helicopter.

....NYPD helo's don't pack that kind of firepower....
"Eagerness and thrill seeking in others' misery is psychologically corrosive, and is also rampant in EMS. It's a natural danger of the job. It will be something to keep under control, something to fight against."

BTCS1*

But the NYPD ESU team that was onboard it is packin' some serious heat!
C/2d Lt. B. Garelick, CAP

JayT

Quote from: BTCS1* on February 17, 2010, 06:25:56 PM
But the NYPD ESU team that was onboard it is packin' some serious heat!

Yeah, but there's a big difference between shooting some skele with an M4 or Mini-14 and an airplane.
"Eagerness and thrill seeking in others' misery is psychologically corrosive, and is also rampant in EMS. It's a natural danger of the job. It will be something to keep under control, something to fight against."

Seabee219

I think that most American's still have memory of that day, but others forget, and protest the war we are in to give them the freedom to say and do what they want.  The over 3000 people that died  that day still makes me mad.  Most of the flags are down now, and most forgot. We should play that over and over and they can see what our service people are fighting for.  I love this country and if I could I would put on a uniform and go over there myself.  So, please do not forget the people that served and died for our country. Wave your flags.
CAP Capt, Retired US Navy Seabee.
  MRO, MS, MO, UDF, GT3, MSA, CUL
1. Lead by example, and take care of your people

Seabee219

Quote from: Seabee219 on February 18, 2010, 06:18:52 PM
I think that most American's still have memory of that day, but others forget, and protest the war we are in to give them the freedom to say and do what they want.  The over 3000 people that died  that day, and it still makes me mad.  Most of the flags are down now, and most forgot. We should play that over and over and they can see what our service people are fighting for.  I love this country and if I could I would put on a uniform and go over there myself.  So, please do not forget the people that served and died for our country. Wave your flags.
CAP Capt, Retired US Navy Seabee.
  MRO, MS, MO, UDF, GT3, MSA, CUL
1. Lead by example, and take care of your people

JayT

Quote from: Seabee219 on February 18, 2010, 06:18:52 PM
I think that most American's still have memory of that day, but others forget, and protest the war we are in to give them the freedom to say and do what they want.  The over 3000 people that died  that day still makes me mad.  Most of the flags are down now, and most forgot. We should play that over and over and they can see what our service people are fighting for.  I love this country and if I could I would put on a uniform and go over there myself.  So, please do not forget the people that served and died for our country. Wave your flags.

So we should play video of the Pearl Harbor attacks every day to?

In one sentence, you say that most Americans have forgotten, but before you say most haven't. Which is it?

Yeah, we shouldn't forget what our servicemen and women are fighting for, but we also have to live and be Americans. Patriotism isn't waving a flag and watching videos of the greatest crime in modern history. Patrotism is being a good member of society and trying to make the world a better place.
"Eagerness and thrill seeking in others' misery is psychologically corrosive, and is also rampant in EMS. It's a natural danger of the job. It will be something to keep under control, something to fight against."

Seabee219

Sorry on not being clear there. I will say that some have forgot, not all. But it seems the one that forget are the ones that complain. Yes all good points I agree 100%. 
CAP Capt, Retired US Navy Seabee.
  MRO, MS, MO, UDF, GT3, MSA, CUL
1. Lead by example, and take care of your people

Gunner C

Quote from: JThemann on February 18, 2010, 06:26:35 PM
Quote from: Seabee219 on February 18, 2010, 06:18:52 PM

So we should play video of the Pearl Harbor attacks every day to?

In one sentence, you say that most Americans have forgotten, but before you say most haven't. Which is it?

Yeah, we shouldn't forget what our servicemen and women are fighting for, but we also have to live and be Americans. Patriotism isn't waving a flag and watching videos of the greatest crime in modern history. Patrotism is being a good member of society and trying to make the world a better place.
We're not at war with the Japanese, but every Dec 7 you'll see footage replayed of the attack, and probably will for several more years. 

I have to disagree with the term"crime." Calling the attacks of Sept 11 "crimes", lessens the impact of it.  They were acts of war from a transnational group that has the tacit, if not explicit support of several nations.  Our first two wars as a nation were exactly the same - Barbary Pirates were the Islamic terrorists of the early 19th century.  They weren't criminals they were naval raiders who kept our nation at bay.

BTW, international law calls it irregular warfare which, if carried out correctly, can be legal.  The law of land warfare requires that the participants carry arms openly, have fixed insignia, and have a discernable chain of command.  Also, you can't target civilians.  These terrorists have no protections under international law.  The closest it comes to being a crime is a war crime.  The capturing country determines how they are disposed of.  Execution, by international law, is allowed.

Spike

^ International laws only comes into play with those that have signed the Geneva Convention.  Terrorists are not a signatory entity, thus have no international rights.  When captured, they can be executed by a summary military tribunal consisting of the immediate Commander should we so decide.  We only have to treat other signatory entities according to the Geneva Convention articles, no other groups.  We as Americans, however do set higher standards for OURSELVES, thus treat even terrorists as though they were part of a uniform combatant enemy.

   

JayT

Quote from: Gunner C on February 20, 2010, 03:52:14 AM
Quote from: JThemann on February 18, 2010, 06:26:35 PM
Quote from: Seabee219 on February 18, 2010, 06:18:52 PM

So we should play video of the Pearl Harbor attacks every day to?

In one sentence, you say that most Americans have forgotten, but before you say most haven't. Which is it?

Yeah, we shouldn't forget what our servicemen and women are fighting for, but we also have to live and be Americans. Patriotism isn't waving a flag and watching videos of the greatest crime in modern history. Patrotism is being a good member of society and trying to make the world a better place.
We're not at war with the Japanese, but every Dec 7 you'll see footage replayed of the attack, and probably will for several more years. 

I have to disagree with the term"crime." Calling the attacks of Sept 11 "crimes", lessens the impact of it.  They were acts of war from a transnational group that has the tacit, if not explicit support of several nations.  Our first two wars as a nation were exactly the same - Barbary Pirates were the Islamic terrorists of the early 19th century.  They weren't criminals they were naval raiders who kept our nation at bay.

BTW, international law calls it irregular warfare which, if carried out correctly, can be legal.  The law of land warfare requires that the participants carry arms openly, have fixed insignia, and have a discernable chain of command.  Also, you can't target civilians.  These terrorists have no protections under international law.  The closest it comes to being a crime is a war crime.  The capturing country determines how they are disposed of.  Execution, by international law, is allowed.

I'm sorry, I feel the exact opposite. Calling it an 'attack' gives it more justification and more power to their cause then they deserve. They're not 'freedom fighters' or irregular warriors or enemy combatants. They're criminals, thugs, nothing more. Frankly, I say hold the trial in New York Federal court. I'm not afraid of them, nore are most of my fellow New Yorkers.

We, as Americans, and as the current generation of the greatest nation Earth has ever known, cannot allow ourselves to become butchers.
"Eagerness and thrill seeking in others' misery is psychologically corrosive, and is also rampant in EMS. It's a natural danger of the job. It will be something to keep under control, something to fight against."

flyboy53

Quote from: JThemann on February 18, 2010, 06:26:35 PM
Quote from: Seabee219 on February 18, 2010, 06:18:52 PM

So we should play video of the Pearl Harbor attacks every day to? ...Yeah, we shouldn't forget what our servicemen and women are fighting for, but we also have to live and be Americans. Patriotism isn't waving a flag and watching videos of the greatest crime in modern history. Patrotism is being a good member of society and trying to make the world a better place.

Agree. Daily viewing of that stuff would only desensitize a public that has attemped to move on and deal with everything that happened since that day.

Besides, I just realized that the photos are part of the ES training materials. You can find some of them in the scanner and observer training slides. However, what was really interesting about those photos was how they could be zoomed in as digital photos and you could see details that were otherwise naked to the eye.

By the way, the thing with the helicopter is a myth.

Eclipse

As I move all of my data up to the cloud, I am working through a decade of backups, system images, and other files.

I found my personal archive of everything I could find related to 9-11, including the versions of the CAP photos posted at the time.
The compressed .zip file is over 430 MB, and includes videos, photos, .pdfs, even some flash files.

If you would like a copy, PM me with an email address so I can share it to you.

"That Others May Zoom"

AirDX

I was supposed to fly to LAX that day - got woken up by a wild phone call from a friend at Scott AFB about 3:30 AM.  I turned on the news and sat mesmerized for about an hour.  After I watched the second tower come down at about 4:30 AM my time, I figured I wasn't flying anywhere that day, got dressed and went to work.  Strapped on a headset about 5:15 and vectored a bunch of flights coming off the ocean that had been diverted to HNL.  Most of them had no idea what was going on.  Worked through the chaos as Guard F-15s intercepted and eyeballed all the diverts, and the Navy sortied an Aegis cruiser that sat just offshore challenging everyone on guard.  A foreign air carrier aircraft strayed through the localizer and toward the city at one point, and I'm told he came within about 30 seconds after having a pair of Standard missiles launched at him. 

By 8 AM we were done, and the skies were empty.  By 10 AM we were coordinating the first post 9/11 civil flight, an air ambulance run from Maui.  By 11 AM I was back home, sitting in shock, staring at the TV.

My proudest moment of the whole day was due to my wife - as I headed out the door to work at 4:45 in the morning, she instinctively grabbed our American flag and posted it outside in its holder.  She just thought it was the thing to do at the time.  I agree.
Believe in fate, but lean forward where fate can see you.

a2capt

Quote from: AirDX on July 01, 2011, 06:49:03 AMMy proudest moment of the whole day was due to my wife - as I headed out the door to work at 4:45 in the morning, she instinctively grabbed our American flag and posted it outside in its holder.  She just thought it was the thing to do at the time.  I agree.
I posted the flag as I walked out the door, too. Went to work, got 'hassled' for being late, to which I responded, "I guess you're the only one that didn't turn on the TV this morning", and our work day ended about 2 hours later anyway. No one was in the mood.


I, too have about a gig and a half of stuff I saved from the following days. I've not looked at it all that much since, either. Still annoyed.


Other than a weird twist of fate, of my Goldberg type contraption for using an 8mm shoulder mount recorder as a VCR, that I had meant to record the History Channel that morning, (37), I missed it by one and set it for 36 instead, and ended up recording CNN and got two hours of recording that included the breaking news when the first one hit and they thought it was an accident, through most of the news breaking before the recorder stopped.  I didn't even realize I had done that until a couple years later when I was looking through unlabeled tapes to see what was on them. As that day I picked up a crapton of blanks and was recording quite a bit.


I didn't want it to be like events we read about in in school and only had the same six photos of, I wanted as much as I could get to have for sharing in the later years. 


I still have not gone through it all yet, either.

Майор Хаткевич

We would never have the "Same" 6 photos, because the internet existed in 2001. Barring world civilization collapse, those photos are forever there.

Luis R. Ramos

Are the photos online or not?

The link posted in the OP message does not work now.

There were at least two CAPflights to take photos. The first was from the Long Island Group, NY. The second one was the New York City Group airplane.

I am sure these photos are not lost!

Luis Ramos


Squadron Safety Officer
Squadron Communication Officer
Squadron Emergency Services Officer

Eclipse

The link in the OP is 18 months old, not surprising it is dead.

When I have a minute I will post up the ones I have here.

"That Others May Zoom"

Eclipse


"That Others May Zoom"

LTC Don

Wow.  Awesome pictures.  Do you have any date/time info with those to provide some sort of timeline?


Cheers,
Donald A. Beckett, Lt Col, CAP
Commander
MER-NC-143
Gill Rob Wilson #1891

Eclipse

The versions I have don't have the EXIF data, but the flights were early on the 12th.

"That Others May Zoom"

ol'fido

Does anyone have a link to a story or video archive of a newscast that mentions the CAP aircraft flying over Ground Zero?
Lt. Col. Randy L. Mitchell
Historian, Group 1, IL-006

Luis R. Ramos

Eclipse-

Thank you for posting them.

Luis Ramos
Squadron Safety Officer
Squadron Communication Officer
Squadron Emergency Services Officer


JC004

Nice.

I remember people freaking out about that little plane, flying "unauthorized" around Manhattan!  Right.  Cuz they'd get away with that.