CAPR 173-1 Revised - No Local Deposit of Donations

[lordmonar]

And here's the kicker - any such donation has to be specifically accepted by the donee, including acceptance of the right of reversion.

But isn't that easily accomplished by placing the restriction in the memo field of the donation check? Or better yet, putting verbiage on the back to the effect that "Endorsement constitutes acceptance of gift restriction"?

The legal implication of that is that units are not allowed to negotiate that sort of a deal.  Only the wing commander as a corporate officer can do that.  So we are back to square one.

Yes....someone can make a restricted donation to the Homer J. Simpson Squadron.....but it would still have to go to wing for approval.

Bottom line is that the corporation owns everything.  From donations to squadron dues to intrest earned from squadron fundraising activities.

Having said that....the corporation's rules say that what a squadron deposits "belongs" to the squadron and can't be diverted for other uses with out the squadron's concent.

One of the great things about the WBP is that we now prevent monies from just disappearing.   There are lots of horror stories of units folding and lots and lots of money just not being there anymore.  We also have the added benefit of oversight from wing over spending.  If the Homer J. Simpson Squadron raised $1000 from washing cars and decides to spend it on something they should not (say buying M-16s for Marksmanship Training) the wing has the ability to intervene before the money is spent.

I got no problem with the WBP.

[lordmonar]

So legally anyone who is paying dues to support their squadrons' operations still could be SOL if a wing decided on some sort of  assessment.

Legally?  Its not a "legal" issues, per-se, and it has nothing to do with the WBP.

Every nickel collected by CAP in every account is corporate money.  The corporation can take whatever they want from whomever they want, subject to internal rules.  This is the way its always been, with no change because of WBP.

If a wing, for some reason, decided to start assessing charges to units, they would have to pay, period, whether its an accounting transfer within Quickbooks, or a check from the unit to the wing.

Every heard of a wing doing this?  I sure haven't.

They could bill the squadrons for services....but they can't commingle monies.  That is if squadron A puts in $1000 and squadron b puts in $1500 wing can't cut a check to squadron A for $1200 unless squadron b says it's okay.

173-1 says the intrest from the squadron accounts can be charged an overhead to pay for the WBP accounting....but the balance of the intrest goes back to the squadron's account.

If the wing were to impose some sort of "dues" on the squadrons to pay for wing operations....I would assume that that could be done...but I don't know of any wings that do that.

Again...I go back to my main point.....173-1 says they can't just take a squadron's money unless the squadron is disbanded or it gives the wing concent to do so.

[jimmydeanno]

At least with our Corporate Partners, CAP makes the following statement:

Unlike most other corporate partner programs, one of the greatest benefits to the Civil Air Patrol Corporate Partner is the:

•   Knowledge that their funds will go directly to the organization,

•   Knowledge of how their funds will be used

•   Notice in a timely manner.


Civil Air Patrol Guarantee:

•   Civil Air Patrol guarantees the use of all Corporate Partner funds will be determined within thirty (30) days of receipt

•   Our Corporate Partner will receive notification of the specific need that their funds will be used to support


Funds Determination:
•   Should there be a particular mission or CAP wing / squadron that the Corporate Partner wishes to support, Civil Air Patrol Corporate Partner funds can be so designated in their name.

[lordmonar]

Ahhh.   There is the problem.  CAP Inc.  Thanks Cowboy

You don't want to do finances the way the USAF does!   How would you like to see your entire budget disappear mid July because someone 3 states aways wants to fly more?

Where you have deal with different "colored" money that can only be spent on one mission even if you have a critical need for it else where.

I kid you not.  In my 22 years on AD I have been in places where the O&M money got sucked up by a flying unit but the carpet and furniture money was not.  Can't buy spare parts and can't fix non critical equipment...but we can get you new carpet and chairs.  Roads getting repaved because the "Have to spend the money" not because the roads need to be fixed. 

No....you don't want to go there.

[Spike]

^ The Air Force is the worst (and always has been) at monetary management within the Services.  The Army and Marine Corps appropriate within their requests money for operations and very little for everything else.

Five years ago, the Army cut over 40 million toward MWR services, because of the wars.  AAFES was generous enough to make up the difference.  However, the Air Force is undergoing the largest construction boom since 1985.  I say....AF looses its money to the Services expending so much in Stan and Iraq.  They also need to scrub many experimental programs, or at least let the civilian sector take them over completely.

Heck, the Army and MArines were the first to privatize on base/ post housing, because they could no longer spend money to keep the residences up to standard.  The Air Force spent double what the Marines and Army spent in 2005. 

I will direct you to the budget offices of each Service, should you like to see for yourselves.

I only know this, because I choose this subject for a Masters paper I wrote 2 years ago.

So, perhaps instead of CAP taking a look at how AF spends $$ it should look at how the Army and Marines spend $$

     

[RADIOMAN015]

^ The Air Force is the worst (and always has been) at monetary management within the Services.  The Army and Marine Corps appropriate within their requests money for operations and very little for everything else.

So, perhaps instead of CAP taking a look at how AF spends $$ it should look at how the Army and Marines spend $$

CAP has been very fortunate in the recent past in getting end of year "fall out" money to fund quite a bit of its' priority unfunded requirements.   Generally, monies have to stay in the appropriate major force program funding, but can actually be used for just about any expense within that MFP.
BTW it is always possible that the AF could put out to bid whatever CAP mission support it currently does for the AF/DOD etc - that would be interesting!!!
RM

[lordmonar]

I don't think any for profit organisation could do what CAP does any cheaper.

CAP got the SUAV program because the contractor was too expensive.

[Short Field]

So, perhaps instead of CAP taking a look at how AF spends $$ it should look at how the Army and Marines spend $$

I have looked and was not impressed.  The mismanagement I saw at the local level far exceeded anything I ever heard of in the AF.   This includes having enlisted personnel sleep on the barrack's floor instead of issuing them cots because that would have meant breaking into the stuff stored away for inventory inspections.  Issuing plumbing supplies for self-help work orders of such poor quality they kept failing - in the hope that people would just give up and buy their fixtures off base.   Or assigning you a vehicle to drive on a TDY trip that breaks down at the far end of the trip - then demanding you make all the arrangements and pay to get the vehicle towed back to the Army base.

The AF budget requests compete with all services budget requests for funding.  The Army and Marines concentrate on the Ops side and lets the rest of the force suffer.  All the money comes out of the budget submitted by the SECDEF and approved by Congress - if you don't ask for it, you will not get it.   

[FW]

Gentlemen, the process is fine.  If someone at wing was dumb enough to take unit funds without permission, the WA or WFA would soon find out about it and NHQ would step in to rectify the situation.  There are enough checks and balances in place to catch such a deed and rectify any situation.  I really would not worry about this at all. 

The regulation was written so we can be in compliance with all our obligations as a 501C3 corp.  It was also written with the knowledge that any type of FWA of the system would be very difficult to pull off.  So far, CAP/FM has caught every single "perp" (I think less than 5 in the 2 complete years the program has been in place). 

[N Harmon]

The legal implication of that is that units are not allowed to negotiate that sort of a deal.  Only the wing commander as a corporate officer can do that.  So we are back to square one.

A potential donor wouldn't know that. And if the check was endorsed by someone other than a corporate officer, the "contract" would be null and void and the money would have to be returned to the donor. No?

I'm just asking because as a finance officer I have received donation checks for members with things like "For electric bill" in the memo field. Perhaps I should not have cashed it?

[lordmonar]

A potential donor wouldn't know that. And if the check was endorsed by someone other than a corporate officer, the "contract" would be null and void and the money would have to be returned to the donor. No?

I'm just asking because as a finance officer I have received donation checks for members with things like "For electric bill" in the memo field. Perhaps I should not have cashed it?

I don't know.....I would think it is a buyer beware sort of thing.  If the donor assumes that his money is going to be spent somewhere but makes not positive effort to make sure that happens, I think he is just SOL.

IIRC the Red Cross went through something like this during Katrina.....people poured money into the ARC thinking it was going to go to Katrina victims but most of it went into the general coffers for future disasters.

I would assume that the donor could sue CAP to get the money back...but he would probably have to show fraud. 

Maybe Ned knows.

[Fubar]

IIRC the Red Cross went through something like this during Katrina.....people poured money into the ARC thinking it was going to go to Katrina victims but most of it went into the general coffers for future disasters.

I recall it was the New York terrorist attack that stuffed the ARC's bank account, but their response was fairly limited in scope and there was no way they needed all that money for that specific disaster. The ARC went broke after Katrina and I believe got a federal bailout - even though the bank account was full of 9/11 money they couldn't use.

At any rate, the concept of narrowly specifying how donated funds can be problematic. Overall a non-profit organization needs to have a reputation as a solid steward of donated dollars, asking donors to specify how funds are used to prevent others in our organization from relocating the money against our wishes will not instill a lot of confidence in the donors.

[lordmonar]

Which is not what is happening here.

Money your squadron brings in....will be deposited in your squadron's account.

No one is trying to "steal" your squadron's money.

[Fubar]

No one is trying to "steal" your squadron's money.

They say money talks but all mine ever says is, "Goodbye!"

[CadetProgramGuy]

When you get donations into the squadron, isn't the check made out to CAP anyways?

Even if it is to the local unit, have them include the CAP name.  In our wing (at least it used to be) each squadron had a bank card that was deposit only.  You could withdraw a buck, but good luck finding that ATM......Take your checks, deposit into the ATM, send email to administrator so they know what to look for.

Its that easy fellas.....