Border Patrol UAVs

[Flying Pig]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/08/us/08drone.html?_r=4

I know we have some UAV guys on here.  Does anyone know what the operating cost per hour is on the UAV?  I was told they are about $14 million to purchase one.  It appears the Border Patrol isnt fond of them.  I can see it both ways.  The Border Patrol wants more ground pounders, and of course, doesnt want politicians thinking that if we have UAV's we dont need grunts.  But then again, having an aircraft capable of remaining on station for hours day or night just scanning back and forth has its benefits as well.  But if its coming out of the CBP's budget, operating a fleet of UAVs could be very costly.

As far as CAP CD operations, obviously the local agency CD ops wont be affected, but Homeland Security Missions and Border Missions could be impacted.  Because once CBP gets enough of them, the will use them for every possible mission they can.  Especially now that they have CBP UAV crews.

Ahhh. the wonders of modern technology.  It takes the fun out of everything.

[DC]

Can't access the link, it wants a login...

[Flying Pig]

Hmmm, I dont know why, Im not registered there. Here is the article. 

U.S. Adds Drones to Fight Smuggling

By RANDAL C. ARCHIBOLD
Published: December 7, 2009
PALMDALE, Calif. — To help spot and track smugglers, the Homeland Security Department is expanding its use of drones, the unmanned aircraft widely used in Iraq and other war zones, beyond the Mexican and Canadian borders to the Caribbean and possibly other seas.


Capt. Steve Truhlar, left; Lt. Thomas Shuler; Adm. Jody Beckenridge; and a Predator B aircraft.
The department, through its Customs and Border Protection division, already operates five of the aircraft, known as the Predator B, along the Southwest border from a base in Arizona and the Canadian border from an installation in North Dakota.

Like the drones used by the military, these drones can fly long ranges at high altitudes and are difficult to detect. But the drones that have been used at the border since 2005 are for surveillance and tracking and do not carry weapons.

The department on Monday unveiled a new drone loaded with special radar, cameras and sensors. Built for $13.5 million by General Atomics Aeronautical Systems here, it is designed for maritime use. It features wide-range radar that gives a more sweeping view of the ocean than any of the government's fleet of manned aircraft.

The first maritime drones, about the size of a small turbo-prop commuter plane, will start flying in January off Florida, a smuggling hotbed.

A second drone is scheduled to take flight by summer in the Gulf of Mexico.

Both ultimately will also be used to patrol off the coast of Central America and Mexico, where drug traffickers use watercraft to bring cocaine from South America.

Officials are not sure if the drones will be used off or over Southern California. While there has been an increase recently in the smuggling of drugs and people on the seas there, congested airspace from several commercial airports and military bases could make use of the drone difficult.

A Customs drone — like all others controlled by human pilots from a remote location — that was flying over a sparsely populated area crashed into an Arizona hillside about 100 yards from a house in 2006, causing no injuries or property damage. The National Transportation Safety Board attributed the crash to human error and made several recommendations to make the program safer, most but not all of which were adopted by Customs and Border Protection.

Still, Homeland Security officials praised the aircraft as a safe and important tool that over land has contributed to the seizing of more than 22,000 pounds of marijuana and the apprehension of 5,000 illegal immigrants.

"This is an extraordinary step forward," said Adm. Thad W. Allen of the Coast Guard, which will join Customs and Border Protection on drone missions. "It will help us immeasurably."

Michael C. Kostelnik, an assistant commissioner at Customs and Border Protection, said the drones could fly more than 20 hours at a time, more than double the typical manned mission of about 10 hours.

They travel 275 miles an hour and, Mr. Kostelnik said, are far quieter than conventional aircraft to the point of being virtually imperceptible to anyone on the ground or seas below them.

"Right out of the chute they could do things nothing else could do," said Mr. Kostelnik, standing next to the whale-gray aircraft, which was formally presented to his agency at an afternoon ceremony here.

The drones do have limitations. They operate under what is known as visual flight rules, which means the weather must be clear enough for controllers to see where it is going, somewhat limiting its use.

The program has its critics. The union for Border Patrol agents has criticized the drones as costly and inefficient and has suggested the money would be better spent on adding workers and equipment on the ground.

"Unmanned aircraft serve a very useful role in military combat situations, but are not economical or efficient in civilian law enforcement applications," said T. J. Bonner, president of the Border Patrol union. "There are a number of other technologies that are capable of providing a greater level of usefulness at a far lower cost. It appears that the contractors have once again managed to sell a bill of goods to the politicians and bureaucrats who oversee the procurement of technology designed to secure our borders."

[sardak]

FY10 reimbursement rates from the DoD Comptroller's website
MQ-1 Predator $178/hr non-federal users, $165 federal, non-DoD users
MQ-9 Reaper $257/hr, $241/hr
RQ-4A Globalhawk $7,147/hr, $6,866/hr
T-41 Mescalero $470/hr, $448/hr

The rate sheets also show into which accounts the reimbursements are to be made. The personnel costs for the three "unmanned" aircraft are $126/hr. For the T-41 it's $82/hr.

This website also gives rotary wing reimbursement costs and military personnel basic pay and reimbursement rates.

Mike

[Short Field]

CAP has a briefing it gives to the USAF Incident Managers showing how CAP is a cost-effective force multiplier.  The slide lists the following per hour costs:
$132 - CAP Aircraft
$1.600 - UAV - Predator
$5,300 - HH60G
$6.800 - C-130H

[RADIOMAN015]

CAP has a briefing it gives to the USAF Incident Managers showing how CAP is a cost-effective force multiplier.  The slide lists the following per hour costs:
$132 - CAP Aircraft
$1.600 - UAV - Predator
$5,300 - HH60G
$6.800 - C-130H

I'd really like to see the caculations (factors) that go into the alleged CAP cost per hour listed above.   

Personally, I think the UAV's are the way to go with appropriate sensor packages.  There are less expensive UAV's that the Predator.
RM

[RiverAux]

If that figure for UAV "rental" is correct and includes all operational expenses (manpower to launch, run the sensors, etc.), thats a nice price and if UAVs weren't in such short supply right now, would be giving us some stiff competition. 

Of course if you're an agency looking at whether it is ultimately more cost effective to purchase them or run traditional aircraft, that very high initial investment and high crash rate is going to give you a different story. 

[lordmonar]

High crash rate?

[RiverAux]

http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2008/10/airforce_safety_side_101108/

Not shockingly higher than civilian GA aircraft or more specifically CAP, but just from an equipment replacement perspective, you can replace a whole lot of 182s before you replace a Predator. 

[Short Field]

I'd really like to see the caculations (factors) that go into the alleged CAP cost per hour listed above.   

CAP charges for gas and a hourly maintenance cost.  Everything else is provided at no cost.  Now factor in the hourly cost of aircrews, aircraft replacement costs, ground support personnel, and administrative overhead that other agencies would charge a customer.   Figure the costs for a C-182 hired from a local FBO and flown by a three person crew you hired.  Then add in the cost of ground time for mission planning.  Now provide the crew a three person mission base to handle coordinating the other aircraft, communications support, etc.  It adds up fast.   Maybe one of the other CAP Talkers can provide better numbers. 

[Gunner C]

I was told they are about $14 million to purchase one.

I'm wondering if they're on loan to them from the AF like the UH-60s are/were from the Army.

[Flying Pig]

CBP has its own UAV operators.  Im pretty sure CBP bought them.