Stolen Valor

[raivo]

Don't assume that because someone is a veteran of the military that they have the knowledge to call someone's bluff.  Most people that try to sell themselves as something they're not usually shoot for something in Special Operations (SEALs, PJs, Special Forces, Ranger, Force Recon, etc.).  Rarely do people try to come off as a decorated Air Force Security Forces Airman, Navy Sea Bee, Army Water Purification Specialist or Marine Corps Helo Mechanic. 

Although Special Operations has grown in the last 9 years (post 9/11), it's still a very small group.  Most veterans that join CAP do not have a special operations background, thus not familiar enough with that field to call someone out.  There is a certain mystique about special operations forces that often intimidate "outsiders" and make them reluctant to even ask questions about their background.

Very true.

I would feel pretty comfortable "calling someone out" unless I were absolutely sure they were BSing, espcially someone from SpecOps.

[Slim]

There was our friend from Pennsylvania right here on CAP-Talk, and then a certain "Secret Squirrel from the Great White North"...

And for the Great White North guy, I just never liked the guy and had a gut feeling, but you did 90% of the work on that one.  Busting phonies went international...awesome.

I was just waiting for that guy to come up in this thread.

[NIN]

Al,

Thanks for that. I have a new term of reference for myself.

BTW, most of the time if you run into someone who is "legit" and you start quizzing them to be sure they're really legit, if they catch on that you're "fake checking" them, they generally don't get pissed and are actually appreciative that you're making sure that people aren't trying to slip one past you.

I ran into a CAP guy at a banquet once in Syracuse, NY who was wearing a HALO badge on his CAP uniform.  He looked like Barney Rubble, not John Rambo, and I started to quiz him a little about his background (his daughter was a cadet, and both he and his wife were CAP members). Turned out he had an Army SF background and yep, his HALO wings along with his awards and decs were legit.  (and like I said, he looked like "Joe McPlainGuy," not "Dolph Lundgren," so I had to get past the visual stereotype..)  He was a good guy about it.

I legit-checked a skydiver I met once who was introduced to me as a Navy SEAL.  He said "oh, you're legit checking me, aren't you?" and I sheepishly admitted I was, and we both had a hell of a laugh about it.   Turned out, yep, he was a real-deal Navy SEAL and Hollywood stuntman.   It was a real honor meeting him, sad that he was killed doubling for Vin Diesel while filming "xXx."

[Eclipse]

It's a commander's fiduciary responsibility to be asking these exact questions to insure the people we hold up as examples and entrust
with our resources and precious cargo are who they say they are.

If we're not doing that, we're being negligent in our own duties.

Most of us can spot an "issue" from 50K feet, and can hear the sirens from 20.  We need to listen to them more.

[dogboy]

 A graduate of a high school in Martinez who masqueraded as a highly decorated Marine at his 20-year reunion, only to be called out by a genuine Naval officer and charged with a misdeamenor, was sentenced Monday to one year of probation.

Steven Burton, 39, of Palm Springs, pleaded guilty in December to violating Stolen Valor Act of 2005, which makes illegal the unauthorized wearing of certain military decorations and medals, such as the Navy Cross

http://www.contracostatimes.com/news/ci_14680412

[vmstan]

Probation? This guy should be in jail for a year.

[N Harmon]

Probation? This guy should be in jail for a year.

He's not a danger to anybody, so I don't see a reason for taxpayers to be paying to lock him up. Let him learn his lesson and return to being a productive member of society.

[PHall]

Probation? This guy should be in jail for a year.

He's not a danger to anybody, so I don't see a reason for taxpayers to be paying to lock him up. Let him learn his lesson and return to being a productive member of society.

Not to mention that he lost his job because of this too.

[tsrup]

Probation? This guy should be in jail for a year.

He's not a danger to anybody, so I don't see a reason for taxpayers to be paying to lock him up. Let him learn his lesson and return to being a productive member of society.

Not to mention that he lost his job because of this too.

He lost his job because he is a man without integrity, don't waste your sympathy on him

[C/MSgt Lunsford]

Probation? This guy should be in jail for a year.

He's not a danger to anybody, so I don't see a reason for taxpayers to be paying to lock him up. Let him learn his lesson and return to being a productive member of society.

Not to mention that he lost his job because of this too.

He lost his job because he is a man without integrity, don't waste your sympathy on him

Exactly. He has been dishonorable.

I feel that they should make him the Marine he wants to impersonate so much.

[PHall]

Probation? This guy should be in jail for a year.

He's not a danger to anybody, so I don't see a reason for taxpayers to be paying to lock him up. Let him learn his lesson and return to being a productive member of society.

Not to mention that he lost his job because of this too.

He lost his job because he is a man without integrity, don't waste your sympathy on him

Didn't say I had any sympathy for him, just pointing out that his boss at the bank wasn't amused by his BS either and fired his butt.
Funny thing that, the bank wants "honest" people working for them. Who da thunk?

[WheelsUp]

OK, I know I am late to this discussion....what exactly is CAP's policy on 214's? Is it in the regs?

It's been a few years since I joined CAP, and I really just can't recall if they wanted one from me or not. For some reason, I don't think they did. 

But when I joined the Legion and VFW, the first thing they said was, "Lemme see your 214, bud."

At any rate, I've often wondered how many phonies/exaggerators come into the CAP ranks. Rest assured this Army vet is on the lookout for it. I'm pretty dialed-in with the fake-vet-busting community (Doug Sterner, POW Network, etc.) and have zero qualms about taking someone out if they are faking the funk.

[jimmydeanno]

Phonies and posers can "infiltrate" because unless they're looking for advanced promotion or something, there isn't any reason to check the DD214.

So, you end up with the guy who says he was in the navy for a few years and tells some stories.  They usually slip up on their own, though.

[JC004]

...
At any rate, I've often wondered how many phonies/exaggerators come into the CAP ranks. Rest assured this Army vet is on the lookout for it. I'm pretty dialed-in with the fake-vet-busting community (Doug Sterner, POW Network, etc.) and have zero qualms about taking someone out if they are faking the funk.

We've had our share...even on CAPTalk.  Maybe more than our fair share, come to think of it.

VFW of course requires this info even to be a member, but if someone is popping on military ribbons in CAP, I think we should require them to have a copy of their DD214 in their CAP file.  I did look for a policy on this before, but never found anything.

[WheelsUp]

I shot an email to CAPNHQ on the subject of 214s. I'd like to see what they have to say.

Personally, my policy (If I ran CAP) would be as such: A) If you claim vet status, you submit a 214. B) If you wear military ribbons on a CAP uniform, there had better be a 214 in the files listing each of those ribbons. If it's not authorized (or verifiable), I'm gonna zap ya!

[Eclipse]

OK, I know I am late to this discussion....what exactly is CAP's policy on 214's? Is it in the regs?

It's been a few years since I joined CAP, and I really just can't recall if they wanted one from me or not. For some reason, I don't think they did. 

But when I joined the Legion and VFW, the first thing they said was, "Lemme see your 214, bud."

At any rate, I've often wondered how many phonies/exaggerators come into the CAP ranks. Rest assured this Army vet is on the lookout for it. I'm pretty dialed-in with the fake-vet-busting community (Doug Sterner, POW Network, etc.) and have zero qualms about taking someone out if they are faking the funk.

Any military service that would potentially receive CAP credit (i.e. promotion) requires a DD214 or similar documentation.

Wearing ribbons and insignia from other services generally doesn't (especially ribbons), simply because few CC's have the time to be
checking every ribbon and badge from some other service, and their wear is going to be purely ceremonial, anyway.

However with that said, good commanders can spot a fake pretty easily, and it's usually in proportion to their plumage.  A flight badge or a few military ribbons won't generally get much more than casual attention, even if they aren't approved for wear on a USAF uniform, but
exciting decorations, or the ever-popular trident will, or should, get commanders asking direct questions, both about whether they can be worn at all, and whether the member is eligible.

Like most things in life, discretion is the better part of (stolen) valor.  Few people will glance twice at an ASR, but if you show up looking like this guy:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2007/05/02/2007-05-02_vet_more_like_special_farce.html
questions will be asked...
"They're always [Navy] SEALs or Special Forces," said Kimey. "Nobody ever masquerades as a cook."

[Ned]

And of course current active and reserve service members may not have a DD214 until they change status or retire.  I didn't have one for the majority of my Guard career.

[SarDragon]

Those people should be able to get a certified copy of the appropriate page(s) of their service record as verification of rank and awards.

[WheelsUp]

....and be able to provide a current military ID, perhaps as well as most current assignment orders. 

[wingnut55]

We had a guy trying to Join and he showed up wearing his dads ribbons and wings from ww2,  I sat him down and privately told him he can't be doing such things and I realized he was mentally ill. I asked him about his meds and he told me the things he was taking. I was going to send him to wing to join (kidding) he never came back.

I know of another CAP guy who claims he was a seal during Vietnam, but he forgot his uncle was my Squadron CO and he was about 4 years younger than me. Vietnam was over in 1975 (most ground combat troops officially out 1973??) and I was 20 so he would have been 16. I asked him about that and he than said he worked on black Ops in PI and Vietnam, well well that might have been true but he would have been 18 years old. Than he changed to 1984 etc , etc. If people thump their chests I think they must be fake.

On the other hand, I was awarded a medal for valor at 19 and a year later an E5 reached up and tried to rip it off my uniform, he said I was too young for that award. That kind of behavior was unwarranted, and is dangerous. So we need to be cautious. Some people have earned their decorations. People can't assume all are fakes, but all cap members should have their dd214 in their 201 file.