Design a new CAP-distinctive Uniform

[Майор Хаткевич]

Either way it looks sharp. I cross posted this in the other gray's thread.

[arajca]

I post my pictures to TinyPic. Is anyone else having viewing trouble?

No. See if you can put them in the Gallery them embed the image from there. That's what I did.

[Gunner C]

The grey slides and nameplate are being used for two reasons:
1. Many members already have them - saves money
2. Shared element with AF uniforms

The CAP cutouts are used for now - we'd REALLY like to have the US cutouts instead, if possible.

A black tie make a harsh transition. The dark blue makes a softer transition. We compared the two and decided on the dark blue.

You could have a 5-year wear out period for the "CAP" embroidered slides with the plain grey replacing them. As people get promoted, they'll have to buy the new ones anyway. Have a corresponding 5-year wear out for the AF uniform.  They would go away by attrition.  If we go 100% GSU, then we won't need to have CAP on our shoulders and the "US" on the lapel won't be an AF uniform deconfliction problem.

The best of all worlds would be hard rank on the jacket and slides on the shirt.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Why do people fixate on metal grade?

[kd8gua]

Interesting take on the idea arajca.

Couple points:
-It appears neither black, nor USAF blue ties will work with the LAPD blue coat. A new matching tie would have to be added.
-The gray pants look surprisingly nice. I threw that idea around a little at first, but wasn't sure. Now the trick would be a uniform shade of pants, either gray or LAPD Blue.
-Not sure about the Gray Commission Stripe. Is a Commission Stripe even necessary? We aren't exactly Commissioned Officers. It also throws in more tailoring/expense, plus the cost of stripe too.

Good ideas though. I'm surprised we all are agreeing, and agreeing to disagree on things. Let's keep this up!

[Майор Хаткевич]

Can't do blue pants with black coat, that is the Army's realm now. I like the gray.

[arajca]

Interesting take on the idea arajca.

Couple points:
-It appears neither black, nor USAF blue ties will work with the LAPD blue coat. A new matching tie would have to be added.
-The gray pants look surprisingly nice. I threw that idea around a little at first, but wasn't sure. Now the trick would be a uniform shade of pants, either gray or LAPD Blue.
-Not sure about the Gray Commission Stripe. Is a Commission Stripe even necessary? We aren't exactly Commissioned Officers. It also throws in more tailoring/expense, plus the cost of stripe too.

Good ideas though. I'm surprised we all are agreeing, and agreeing to disagree on things. Let's keep this up!

I don't know where LAPD Blue came from. The coat I put up is black.

[High Speed Low Drag]

The reason that I suggested the LAPD Blue pants or black pants is that when the gray slacks are worn without the jacket, the person wearing the uniform looks washed out.  (See original grays pic in the unifrom mini-poster from national.) 

Regarding the black coat - its ok, without the gray commisioning stripe.  I agree with the others regarding tailoring expense, etc.  (And the black uniform coat does remind me of the Nazi's SS coat) Sorry, but that was the first thing that came to mind.

I have to confess, I really prefer the LAPD Blue pants w/ the LAPD Blue jacket as option..  I think Blue is important to signify our ties to the AF.  Seniors should be able to continue to wear the AF unifrom (which I think should still be an option), but no matter which uniform a SM is wearing, it will have blue in it.  Ironically, my police uniform is LAPD blue (top & bottom).  I tried on both black pants and blue pants with the white shirt.  The LAPD Blue just seems more aviationly (yes, my word) than black.

And for those of you that would say "but we aren't police," no, we aren't.  But with the jacket decked out the way kd8gua has it, there would be no mistaking that.  Especially if we retaing the gray slides, of which I am in favor of.  No police have jacket layouts (and most departments except east coast have done away with dress jackets altogether) that would look even close to our jacket layout.  We should stay away from hard rank b/c almost all LE wears hard rank on their uniform.

[arajca]

I don't disagree with the washed out point, but we are trying to keep costs down. Most folks who wear the CSU that do not meet h/w already have grey pants. I've dropped over $250 outfitting my CSU (I was able to do the tailoring myself). I can get the black service coat for less than $100 from many police shops. That's the only additional expense with the black coat.

I'm not suggesting dumping the AF uniforms for those who can wear them. Now, if the new service uniform looks sharper than the AF uniform and more seniors, esp. those who meet the h/w, wear it by choice, that's another story. When we start seeing activites with more than half the seniors wearing the new service uniform (if approved), then we can seriously start discussing dropping the AF service uniforms FOR SENIORS.

Those who suggest dropping the grey epaulet sleeves for the AF uniforms need to consider what would replace them. And that the replacement will REQUIRE AF approval.

My personal preference is for charcoal grey, not medium. Charcoal grey is more uniform (no pun intended) among clothing manufacturers.

[High Speed Low Drag]

I don't disagree with the washed out point, but we are trying to keep costs down. Most folks who wear the CSU that do not meet h/w already have grey pants. I've dropped over $250 outfitting my CSU (I was able to do the tailoring myself). I can get the black service coat for less than $100 from many police shops. That's the only additional expense with the black coat.

We can compromise if we go with a darker- gray pants. (like the charcoal you suggest) That would still go good with the LAPD Blue coat. Then, only need to buy the LAPD Blue coat at about the same expense.

I'm not suggesting dumping the AF uniforms for those who can wear them. Now, if the new service uniform looks sharper than the AF uniform and more seniors, esp. those who meet the h/w, wear it by choice, that's another story. When we start seeing activites with more than half the seniors wearing the new service uniform (if approved), then we can seriously start discussing dropping the AF service uniforms FOR SENIORS.

I agree 100%.  Words cannot express how strongly I agree with you.

Those who suggest dropping the grey epaulet sleeves for the AF uniforms need to consider what would replace them. And that the replacement will REQUIRE AF approval.

My personal preference is for charcoal grey, not medium. Charcoal grey is more uniform (no pun intended) among clothing manufacturers.

The gray slides would also keep costs down (multiple uses), as well as provide continuity from top to bottom.  Also, with the charcoal gray pants, we could still incorporate the black flight cap (which as since is now being massed produced for Navy will be low cost.)  If jacket is worn, then the service hat (as depicted by kd8jua) would be worn, not the flight cap.

Thoughts? ka8gua - could you photoshop some charcoal gray pants w/ the service coat?

[Майор Хаткевич]

SM Slide gray would make more sense.

[Gunner C]

Can't do blue pants with black coat, that is the Army's realm now. I like the gray.

Actually, the coat is blue and the pants are lighter blue (faded).  The old horse soldiers used to put their blouses under their saddles.  The pants would fade to a lighter blue, thus you have the two colors.  General officers' pants are the dark blue - they didn't have to go out on horses and be uncomfortable.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Why do people fixate on metal grade?

Maybe because we once had it, and we lost it for reasons known better to others than I (it happened just prior to my joining CAP).

I would also ask: outside of reasons of convenience, why are people fixated on grey?  It is not normally a shade associated with aviators, and it has no precedent in the CAP history of "pinks and greens," khaki/silvertan and blue.

[Gunner C]

Interesting take on the idea arajca.

Couple points:
-It appears neither black, nor USAF blue ties will work with the LAPD blue coat. A new matching tie would have to be added.
-The gray pants look surprisingly nice. I threw that idea around a little at first, but wasn't sure. Now the trick would be a uniform shade of pants, either gray or LAPD Blue.
-Not sure about the Gray Commission Stripe. Is a Commission Stripe even necessary? We aren't exactly Commissioned Officers. It also throws in more tailoring/expense, plus the cost of stripe too.

Good ideas though. I'm surprised we all are agreeing, and agreeing to disagree on things. Let's keep this up!

It's not a commissioning stripe, it's an officer stripe.  Warrant officers wore them before they were commissioned.  Making things up just complicates things.

[Gunner C]

Interesting take on the idea arajca.

Couple points:
-It appears neither black, nor USAF blue ties will work with the LAPD blue coat. A new matching tie would have to be added.
-The gray pants look surprisingly nice. I threw that idea around a little at first, but wasn't sure. Now the trick would be a uniform shade of pants, either gray or LAPD Blue.
-Not sure about the Gray Commission Stripe. Is a Commission Stripe even necessary? We aren't exactly Commissioned Officers. It also throws in more tailoring/expense, plus the cost of stripe too.

Good ideas though. I'm surprised we all are agreeing, and agreeing to disagree on things. Let's keep this up!

I don't know where LAPD Blue came from. The coat I put up is black.

After thinking about it, the problem with black is that the color shows off EVERY piece of lint, dander, and whatnot that touches it.  Consider dark charcoal and a lighter charcoal or just a dark charcoal uniform.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Regarding the black coat - its ok, without the gray commisioning stripe.  I agree with the others regarding tailoring expense, etc.  (And the black uniform coat does remind me of the Nazi's SS coat) Sorry, but that was the first thing that came to mind.

I have to confess, I really prefer the LAPD Blue pants w/ the LAPD Blue jacket as option..  I think Blue is important to signify our ties to the AF.  Seniors should be able to continue to wear the AF unifrom (which I think should still be an option), but no matter which uniform a SM is wearing, it will have blue in it.  Ironically, my police uniform is LAPD blue (top & bottom).  I tried on both black pants and blue pants with the white shirt.  The LAPD Blue just seems more aviationly (yes, my word) than black.

The black brings SS/Gestapo associations for me too.  I don't want us looking like Major Hochstettler on "Hogan's Heroes" (though the Luftwaffe uniform blue is kind of nice).

I am also in the corner of those who support blue, as long as it's not AF blue.  Most air forces (and associated nonmilitary aviation organisations) the world over wear some sort of blue.

I don't agree that we have to stay away from hard rank just because of law enforcement using it.  Most police officers I've seen who are lieutenants, captains and above, their rank insignia is a lot smaller than mil-spec and is often just gold or silver.  Some wear it embroidered on epaulettes, like the Customs and Border Protection officers.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Black tops reminded me of the USMC, not the SS. But to each his own, even if I did grow up in Europe.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Black tops reminded me of the USMC, not the SS. But to each his own, even if I did grow up in Europe.

It would have reminded me of the Marines if there were a high collar (oops, now I've opened a can of worms!).

Black and grey also remind me of the Imperials in "Star Wars."

[arajca]

Black and grey also remind me of the Imperials in "Star Wars."

Come to the Dark Side!

[SarDragon]

Why do people fixate on metal grade?

Maybe because we once had it, and we lost it for reasons known better to others than I (it happened just prior to my joining CAP).

Yes, we did have it some time ago. Some folks prefer it.

I still have my olde stuff, but don't really care if we go back to it or not, since I've gotten promoted since the last time we were allowed to wear it.