Design a new CAP-distinctive Uniform

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

And this is one reason why I cited the example of Canada earlier.  Up until 1968, their uniforms were identical to the Royal Air Force, Royal Navy and British Army with a "Canada" shoulder flash.

http://mpmuseum.org/index3.html

In 1968, their Defence Minister, Paul Hellyer (Trudeau government), was so zealous to "save money" and "give the uniform a Canadian identity" (meaning: remove as many British/monarchical references as possible to pacify Quebec) that he simply did not give a rat's butt about the "branding" and "traditions" that have correctly been raised here.  So he did away with the RCAF, RCN and CdnArmy and put everyone in a dark-green uniform (rumoured to be cut from the same cloth as Toronto gas station attendants!)...the only way one could tell branch-of-service was cap and collar badges, and everyone wore the same Army rank.

http://mpmuseum.org/index3.html

It was very, very unpopular, and a lot of top Generals and former Admirals and Air Marshals resigned.

Eventually they got back modified versions of the old unis.
http://131.137.250.232/netpub/server.np?site=cmsimages&catalog=photos&original=55359

My point in citing a foreign example?  Branding does matter, and uniforms contribute a heck of a lot to esprit de corps.  When these troops' unis were taken away and another one was forced on them, morale went into the toilet.

OK, CAP is not military, but we have military roots, even predating the Air Force.

If we are going to have a distinctive uniform, it should incorporate those roots while being distinctive.  The diagrams contributed here based on the "police blue" model are good...and, honestly, we cannot worry ourselves to death that anything blue without grey epaulettes is automatically going to tick off the AF.  But neither should we do what the previous occupant of the two-star office did and just say "here's the uniform" without even talking to the AF beforehand.

It's a balancing act, and it will take some work.

NOTE: Edited to remove duplicate links...sorry...

[kd8gua]

High Speed Low Drag sent me some photos of a possible short sleeve shirt only version of this dress, both with black uniform pants and LAPD blue, which is the same color as the jacket and hat displayed.


Black pants and flight cap.


LAPD Blue pants and flight cap (I personally think this looks sharp).

Notice he included an alternate to the service cap I proposed, which would be the new Navy flight cap.

I've also been working on cadet versions of the corporate uniform, nothing in pictures yet though.

Has anyone considered any other styles of service coat for females? There aren't many to choose from. The coat I used is labeled as Unisex, so it can be fit to both genders.

As far as CAP cutouts vs. epaulets, keep in mind that up until either 1995 or 1997, senior members were only authorized CAP cutouts, no US cutouts. So yes, CAP cutouts were everywhere.

I'm very willing to make wing/region/national patches an option, much like on the BDUs. Wear them if you have them, but no need to go out of your way.

As far as epaulets, gray is logical to keep the price down for seniors. However, I believe matching dark blue epaulets (possibly even just USAF blue with CAP embroidered) would look better.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

The LAPD Blue looks sharp.

However, I would say to NOT use USAF blue epaulettes with "CAP" embroidered on them, since the shade is USAF blue and would possibly cause more issues.  CAP epaulettes in LAPDB would be better.

Yes, that would be extra expense, but it was extra expense back in '95 when we went from the berry boards/blue nameplate to the grey boards/nameplate.  Maybe some sort of exchange could be worked with National - turn in your grey boards/plate and receive new LAPDB boards/plate (and pigs might fly, but you get the idea).

[kd8gua]

Noted.

As an aside: Are we considering this uniform for seniors only, or also cadets? I'm in process of doing cadet versions, and just want to know if I should continue or not.

[Gunner C]

Noted.

As an aside: Are we considering this uniform for seniors only, or also cadets? I'm in process of doing cadet versions, and just want to know if I should continue or not.

I think it's important to keep cadets in AF uniforms - easier/cheaper to procure, ties them directly to the AF tradition, no one is worried about cadets being mistaken AF generals or CG admirals. 

[Eclipse]

Will we all have to look like a creepy ice cream man?

[kd8gua]

Only if you stand around smiling like him

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

And this is one reason why I cited the example of Canada earlier.  Up until 1968, their uniforms were identical to the Royal Air Force, Royal Navy and British Army with a "Canada" shoulder flash.

http://mpmuseum.org/rcnofficers.html
http://mpmuseum.org/postbattledress1.html
http://mpmuseum.org/rcafww2uniforms1.html

In 1968, their Defence Minister, Paul Hellyer (Trudeau government), was so zealous to "save money" and "give the uniform a Canadian identity" (meaning: remove as many British/monarchical references as possible to pacify Quebec) that he simply did not give a rat's butt about the "branding" and "traditions" that have correctly been raised here.  So he did away with the RCAF, RCN and CdnArmy and put everyone in a dark-green uniform (rumoured to be cut from the same cloth as Toronto gas station attendants!)...the only way one could tell branch-of-service was cap and collar badges, and everyone wore the same Army rank.

http://mpmuseum.org/securservice.html

It was very, very unpopular, and a lot of top Generals and former Admirals and Air Marshals resigned.

Eventually they got back modified versions of the old unis.

http://mpmuseum.org/securservice2.html

My point in citing a foreign example?  Branding does matter, and uniforms contribute a heck of a lot to esprit de corps.  When these troops' unis were taken away and another one was forced on them, morale went into the toilet.

OK, CAP is not military, but we have military roots, even predating the Air Force.

If we are going to have a distinctive uniform, it should incorporate those roots while being distinctive.  The diagrams contributed here based on the "police blue" model are good...and, honestly, we cannot worry ourselves to death that anything blue without grey epaulettes is automatically going to tick off the AF.  But neither should we do what the previous occupant of the two-star office did and just say "here's the uniform" without even talking to the AF beforehand.

It's a balancing act, and it will take some work.

NOTE: Edited to remove duplicate links...sorry...

Edited to note my stupidity in use of the quote function...

[arajca]

Noted.

As an aside: Are we considering this uniform for seniors only, or also cadets? I'm in process of doing cadet versions, and just want to know if I should continue or not.

I think it's important to keep cadets in AF uniforms - easier/cheaper to procure, ties them directly to the AF tradition, no one is worried about cadets being mistaken AF generals or CG admirals. 

Cadets over 18 who do not meet h/w requirements cannot wear the AF uniform. So including a cadet version makes sense.




(WHOA...what am I saying!!! Make Sense???)

[arajca]

Basic working design for CT-UNI group
[smg id=67]

[kd8gua]

Here's the latest:



Senior member version with LAPD blue CAP embroidered epaulets and CAP cutouts (US optional pending more opinions for or against)

LAPD Blue nameplate in lieu of gray for seniors.

Wing/Region/National patch shown in place (optional)

For 18+ cadets who do not meet H/W requirements for USAF uniform:


Cadet Airmen: Self explanatory, follows setup of Old-Style Blues coat.


Cadet Officers: Also follows the setup of Old-Style Blues.

[Fuzzy]

I think the gray pants with the gray sleeve braid looks sharp.

I know some will push for blue pants with the combo, but really this is the only way you avoid re-inventing the TPU. Besides it doesn't look bad at all.

Its good that its simple. Add a jacket not a whole uniform, and mabey standardise the shade of gray by haveing a list of designated suppliers.

[Gunner C]

Basic working design for CT-UNI group
[smg id=67]

Wow, I kinda like this.  Reminds me of the pinks and greens.  A couple of thoughts:

• Have darker pants.  The lighter grey will wash out with the white shirt.
• Get rid of the "CAP" on the slides.  We only needed that on them when we were using the blue AF shirt.  If we go to the "Grey Service Uniform" then we won't have to have anything that distinguishes CAP officers from AF officers.

[Fuzzy]

I can't see the earlier pictures or the latest ones, just a blank box with a red X.

[kd8gua]

I post my pictures to TinyPic. Is anyone else having viewing trouble?

[RogueLeader]

no problem what so ever

[RiverAux]

Remind me why we wouldn't want to use our existing gray slides for this fictional uniform?  I can't think of any reason why they couldn't be used for both types of uniforms and provide at least some visual linkage amongst all CAP members?

[kd8gua]

To some members, the gray slides are unnecessary since this isn't a USAF style uniform. Personally I believe the gray slides and nameplate are fine.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Basic working design for CT-UNI group
[smg id=67]

THIS!!!!

Only maybe a black tie? Blue seems out of place...

[arajca]

The grey slides and nameplate are being used for two reasons:
1. Many members already have them - saves money
2. Shared element with AF uniforms

The CAP cutouts are used for now - we'd REALLY like to have the US cutouts instead, if possible.

A black tie make a harsh transition. The dark blue makes a softer transition. We compared the two and decided on the dark blue.

[smg id=68]
Besides, the blue tie is already used with the aviator shirt uniform. Using what we already have again.