Design a new CAP-distinctive Uniform

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

These uniform ideas look sharp! 

I like this way better than the grey/white (who came up with that combination, incidentally...it was there in a slightly different form when I first joined back in '93, so obviously it pre-dates my CAP membership?).

I will go out on a limb and say that it isn't necessarily the hard rank that the AF has a problem with...it is wearing it with a uniform partly composed of their uniform items (rank slides, service coat in the same shade of blue, flight cap) that they have issues with.

I personally don't see a problem with hard rank with this combination.  It does not look overly AF, and other than the nameplate, the words "Air Force" don't appear anywhere.  But, if that won't fly (ouch) then have blue rank slides in the same shade of blue, with CAP embroidered on them.

Or, another possibility would be a different shade of blue, like used in the RAF/Commonwealth, or Luftwaffe (with more grey), or other NATO countries.

I would really prefer a combination blue/grey rather than just grey.

$0.02 offered.

[NCRblues]

Man, I hate to admit this but I really like kd8gua's uniform design . It looks very professional; someone should run this one up their chain of command.

[PhotogPilot]

How About:



The Goin" Band From CAPperLand

Sorry, with the thought of Band unforms being tossed about, I could not help but let my Double T interject a little humor.

All kidding aside, some of the ideas put forth here are really good. The most interesting is a return to the 50's style "silvertans", if that won't set the Navy off on us.

I've said it on this board, the old Portal, and other boards that I think it's time we change our culture, and rethink our relationship to Ma Blue to one similar to the USMC relationship to the Navy. That is, a separate culture, with distinctive uniforms and traditions, but still part of the  USAF overall command structure.

I know, never gonna happen, and the die hard blue suiter's here are going to scream bloody murder, but that's my nickle's worth of opinion. Our OWN uniform, that everone can wear, commonsense grooming standards and training to national ICS compliance and real funding for pilot and first responder training, without all this mucking about on uniform issues, GA8/Archer systems and Vanguard kickbacks will go a long way towards earning the respect of our Air Force patrons.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I like the look of this as well, but in the other thread I'm thinking we'll still go on to see if we can salvage the grays as they are already here, thus easier to work with.

[PhotogPilot]

I like the look of this as well, but in the other thread I'm thinking we'll still go on to see if we can salvage the grays as they are already here, thus easier to work with.

True, if we are going to keep the grays, we've AT LEAST got to standardize the fabric and shade.

[capparent]

Hi!

I think CAP should wear the Dickies brand navy blue work uniform like the ground crews for the Blue Angels and Thunderbirds wear.

It's available at most department stores (including Wal-Mart) and when worn with black oxfords and a white t-shirt presents quite a professional image.

I just can't decide if it would be better w/ribbons and insignia as a class B or name tapes like a fatigue. Maybe one each?

Just my idea.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Hi!

I think CAP should wear the Dickies brand navy blue work uniform like the ground crews for the Blue Angels and Thunderbirds wear.

It's available at most department stores (including Wal-Mart) and when worn with black oxfords and a white t-shirt presents quite a professional image.

I just can't decide if it would be better w/ribbons and insignia as a class B or name tapes like a fatigue. Maybe one each?

Just my idea.

I see what you're saying (I think), but we already have the blue BDU-cut work uniform, as well as a blue flight-suit-styled utility jumpsuit.

I don't think wearing ribbons on such a uniform would look good, although the Young Marines wear their ribbons on Marine camouflage.

[Майор Хаткевич]

And the Young Marine uniforms look atrocious!

[kd8gua]

If you guys are interested in my ideas, I can very easily whip up a female coat and possibly alternative NCO insignia so as to avoid confusion with cadet NCOs and USAF NCO insignia.

Can't do it right now, I'm on lunch at work, but you should see something by this evening.

[jacob]

While I don't think the grey slides are the best things in the world, I would prefer them over metal grade on any service coat for the updated grey and whites.  This will keep it looking more uniform as compared to the AF service coat.

What about US cutouts on the top of the lapel, and the Wing and Prop USAAC insignia in their historical location on the lower part of the lapel?  I'm not 100% sure how I feel about that myself, just throwing it out there.

[kd8gua]

Here are some more uniforms, including NCO and female versions:

Male NCO Coat:


Female Officer Coat with CAP epaulets:


Female Officer Coat with metal grade:


Female NCO Coat:


Male/Female Visor Cap for General Grades (or possibly just Major and up):

[Gunner C]

Great job!  Not bad for a quick draw.

Thoughts:

NCO stuff looks good.  Here's an alternate design for stripes: white on medium or dark grey with red in the middle, just like the original USAAC WW2 roundel.  I'll post a possible style variation that I doodled a while back (below).  On the hat, please no army scrambled eggs.  Use clouds, lightning bolts, and arrows.  Or we could just get rid of the darned thing - just have a single flight cap (also grey) for males and females, like the AF does.  Certainly no silver chin strap.  It just runs the price up (once again more army than AF.)



The female uniforms look like the navy female uniform cut.  Unless a woman has the figure of someone who runs 10 miles a week, it's not going to be very flattering.  The men's longer coat will hide a man's "full figure". (On me the problems are I'm two axe-handles wide).  Do they have anything that's longer and not so form-fitting for our women members?

[AirDX]

While y'all are reinventing the uniforms for the band on the Titanic, have any of you taken a few minutes to write to your Congressman and ask that the cut to CAP's federal budget be restored?

Just asking.

[Gunner C]

Yep.  Satisfy your curiosity? 

Now back to your regularly scheduled uniform thread.

[jimmydeanno]

I think I still like this:



The perfect merger between our AF Auxiliary side and our corporate side.  Most members already have the majority of the items that would go to it and its disctinctive enough.

Get rid of both the AF style and the corporate and voila, everyone in one uniform that looks professional.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I'd still prefer this:

The Colonial Fleet Dress Uniform only costs $199


Hm...the metal grade still might look like we are trying to be real officers.


There! The good ol' gray slides.

[Hawk200]

I think I still like this:



The perfect merger between our AF Auxiliary side and our corporate side.  Most members already have the majority of the items that would go to it and its disctinctive enough.

Get rid of both the AF style and the corporate and voila, everyone in one uniform that looks professional.

And still based on Air Force uniform components. Probably not the best way to go.

That, and it looks even more like an airline uniform. There's a reason the AF didn't go with sleeve rank. Sleeve rank like that is also more expensive to sew on.

It may look nice, but copying unused AF designs isn't the way.

[jimmydeanno]

And still based on Air Force uniform components. Probably not the best way to go.

That was the whole point.  Existing uniform components.  Using the AF style uniform would still give us the tie in to the AF as their Auxiliary - maintaining the association.  The shirt changes to white, no epaults.  The enlisted service coat is cheaper by about $80. Nothing about it says, "That guy is in the Air Force."

Plus, Vanguard already stocks (at least right now) larger sizes for the pants, white shirt and other components (flight cap, etc).  All the female components are already in place, and single breasted looks a heck of a lot better on a wider variety of body types...

That, and it looks even more like an airline uniform. There's a reason the AF didn't go with sleeve rank. Sleeve rank like that is also more expensive to sew on.

Also another perfect reason behind it.  The AF uniform components maintain the AF association and the "airline" portions give us our "corporate" look at the same time.  Merging the two sides of our organization, which has always been a challenge.  It embraces the diversity rather than creating a division between the two.  Plus, the ribbons, etc imply that you're not an airline pilot...

The sleeve insignia might be slightly more expensive, but you aren't buying epaulet sleeves, you aren't spending the $80.00 for the coat in the first place, you already have the majority of the components regardless of what you wear now, etc.

I can't imagine that the stripes and the alteration would be more than $30 per promotion.[/quote]

It may look nice, but copying unused AF designs isn't the way to go.

If they don't want it, why can't we use it for everyone? 

[Hawk200]

That was the whole point.  Existing uniform components.  Using the AF style uniform would still give us the tie in to the AF as their Auxiliary - maintaining the association.  The shirt changes to white, no epaults.  The enlisted service coat is cheaper by about $80. Nothing about it says, "That guy is in the Air Force."

Using Air Force components doesn't say "That guy is in the Air Force"? I don't see the logic.

Second, people would have to buy an enlisted coat. If they already have an officer one, then they are now spending money on another one, and losing the use of an existing one.

The Air Force uses the white shirt for enlisted members as a semi-formal uniform. Hence the basic uniform concept is already in use.

Also another perfect reason behind it.  The AF uniform components maintain the AF association and the "airline" portions give us our "corporate" look at the same time.  Merging the two sides of our organization, which has always been a challenge.  It embraces the diversity rather than creating a division between the two.  Plus, the ribbons, etc imply that you're not an airline pilot...

We have one organization, not two. We may have different status' on missions, but we're still one entity. Corporatizing is part of our problem.

Adding ribbons doesn't alter the fact that it does look airline. Having a set of wings adds to the concept. It's the Civil Air Patrol, not the Civil Airline Patrol.

The sleeve insignia might be slightly more expensive, but you aren't buying epaulet sleeves, you aren't spending the $80.00 for the coat in the first place, you already have the majority of the components regardless of what you wear now, etc.

I can't imagine that the stripes and the alteration would be more than $30 per promotion.

The sleeve insignia is more expensive, no "might" about it. It was also one of the reasons that the concept was not adopted by the Air Force. As to the specific cost, I don't know it, but someone here does, they'll chime in.

Additionally, I highly doubt that there are tailors local to every CAP unit that would know how to properly sew them. A lot of them don't get the single sleeve braid we have on our coats right. I had to hand sew mine myself (which took a lot of time) because the cleaners on base didn't get it right.

As to the coat, it will cost to replace the one you have. That's an expenditure. It's not cheaper to replace something you already have with something else.

Sleeve stripes were a non-starter for the Air Force. With coats, people felt that it looked like a Coast Guard style; with the stripes on epaulet sleeves, people were thought to be old USAFA cadets. I was active AF when McPeak changed it, I heard these thoughts expressed many times over first hand. 

It didn't work then, it doesn't work now just because a few years have gone by.

If they don't want it, why can't we use it for everyone?

The concept is still the Air Force's. It doesn't become public domain because someone feels like using it. It's also not original.

If you're going to design something new, then make it something new, not something taken from Air Force history. A lot of these designs in this thread are either using variants of Air Force uniforms, police uniforms, or suggesting something based on science fiction (I'll accept that those are mostly tongue in cheek, but with some you never know).

The CSU was actually uniform in design and components. If the grey tags and epaulets had been used just like on the blues variations, we may have been able to keep it.

Then again, it's doubtful many or even any of the suggestions presented here would ever be adopted. I imagine that the Air Force would accept small but noteable changes, not drastic ones.

[arajca]

An important point is whether the members can say "That looks sharp." Many people underestimate the importance of that. It's probably the reason the CSU was so popular. Heck, I know of members who passed on the AF uniforms to wear the CSU because it looked sharp (I asked them).

The sleeve stripe grade made me think of the USCG, not USAF or CAP.