cadet gets arrested for inciting 911 call about downed airplane

[ZigZag911]

At the very least, someone needs to sit this cadet down and have a long talk about the fact that CAP does not self-activate for ES response...our assistance is requested by appropriate authorities.

[Johnny Yuma]

I can't help it:

"2B, or not 2B. That is the question"

Seriously, This makes my head hurt reading this...

Kid was monumentally stupid, but I'm trying wrap my head around the call to 911 and the reasoning behind busting the kid. It appears to be a neverending cycle of overreaction by all parties here.

I'm not sure about the criminal charges, I think since Columbine the pendulum's swung a little too far the other way when it comes to juvenile crime. The kid didn't make the call nor did he tell the other to dial 911, so I'm trying to figure out the crime here.

That's the criminal side, the CAP side - Kid would be gone. Demotion, suspension for 90 days and a long, hard talk with the parents about voluntarily terminating the membership. I definitely wouldn't want to have to come back to the unit after pulling off a stupid stunt like this.

[Short Field]

the CAP side - Kid would be gone. Demotion, suspension for 90 days and a long, hard talk with the parents about voluntarily terminating the membership.

Why???  Especially why talk to the parents about voluntarily terminating?  If you feel strongly enough that what the 15 year old did merits being gone from CAP, then stand up to what you are doing to the kid.  What did the 15 year old kid really do?  He made a off the cuff remark to another kid.   The other kid is the one who thought he saw an airplane go down and who called 911.

[Major Lord]

As I read the article, there is no reason to believe that the boy (cadet?) intentionally filed a false police report, lied, or obstructed justice. He may have been overly trigger happy on calling 911, but if you had a person knock on your door, and tell you that your neighbor was being raped and murdered, would you disregard it because it was a second-hand complaint? I don't see a violation of law here, only a mistake in fact, and to meet the standard for a fake 911 call, you would have to demonstrate bad faith on the part of the caller. Of course, in California, children don't commit crimes, they are only "youths in danger of leading idle, dissolute, or immoral life" , not criminals. Save your jail space for the people who call 911 because they are out of chicken Mcnuggets at Mickey-D's!  As far as a 2B, let me respectfully suggest that trying to 2B a kid for a 911 call is.......insane. Cadets can go to the MARB too, and you would be hard pressed to explain how his acting to preserve life (albeit in error) was a terminable offense.

Major Lord

[cap235629]

As I read the article, there is no reason to believe that the boy (cadet?) intentionally filed a false police report, lied, or obstructed justice. He may have been overly trigger happy on calling 911, but if you had a person knock on your door, and tell you that your neighbor was being raped and murdered, would you disregard it because it was a second-hand complaint? I don't see a violation of law here, only a mistake in fact, and to meet the standard for a fake 911 call, you would have to demonstrate bad faith on the part of the caller. Of course, in California, children don't commit crimes, they are only "youths in danger of leading idle, dissolute, or immoral life" , not criminals. Save your jail space for the people who call 911 because they are out of chicken Mcnuggets at Mickey-D's!  As far as a 2B, let me respectfully suggest that trying to 2B a kid for a 911 call is.......insane. Cadets can go to the MARB too, and you would be hard pressed to explain how his acting to preserve life (albeit in error) was a terminable offense.

Major Lord

Especially since the Cadet in question DID NOT CALL 911 his friend did

[arajca]

How do we know the cadet in question did not get called?

[davidsinn]

How do we know the cadet in question did not get called?

Because according to the article he said he got a call immediately after they thought they saw an aircraft go down. The call out process doesn't work that fast.

[Jerry Jacobs]

How do we know the cadet in question did not get called?

Because according to the article he said he got a call immediately after they thought they saw an aircraft go down. The call out process doesn't work that fast.

And Northern and Central CAWG hasn't been alerted since 09/16

[RiverAux]

At worst this cadet lied to his friends, which obviously is a core value problem. 

But, he could not reasonably have expected his friend to call 911 and in fact by saying that CAP had been called out could have reasonably expected his friends to realize that the authorities had already been notified and therefore there would not be a need to call 911.  So arresting him was a huge over-reaction by the police. 

But, CAP should not base its response on a mistake by another agency and I wouldn't suggest going beyond a strong talking to with this cadet.

2B?  No way.  If we kicked out every cadet who lied to his friends about something, we wouldn't have any left. 

[RADIOMAN015]

See http://www.appeal-democrat.com/news/student-86911-airplane-downed.html

Summary:  Group of kids standing around Yuba City.  One thinks he sees a plane crash.  Another one says, "It did, I just got called out by the Civil Air Patrol" and leaves.  The 1st boy then calls 911.  Cops investigate and arrest kid#2 for inciting the 1st one to make the false report.

Frankly that is the strangest arrest I've ever head in my life    The logic of the arrest escapes me because if kid #2 said (when the PD was called) that CAP had already been alerted than the dispatcher should have known something was astray!!!!

I'm not a lawyer but you do have to be careful when this comes before a judge, especially if it will change "case law".  If a kid is dumb (as in this case) and calls 911 for whatever reason and the other kids "incited" him that is a real stretch in my mind. 
RM   

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Would the cadet's future in CAP depend on if there is a conviction or not?

I don't know - I'm asking.

[Ned]

Would the cadet's future in CAP depend on if there is a conviction or not?

I don't know - I'm asking.

Not really, for two reasons:

1.  Based on the article, the only possible offense for the troop is a prosecution for some sort of "false report of an emergency" which in California is a misdemeanor.  Misdemeanor convictions are not disqualifying for CAP membership.  And as others have pointed out, even that charge is a huge stretch.  This will never even get to the DA's office for a decision, let alone to court. 

2.  As a practical matter in California, it is impossible to CAP (or any outsider for that matter) to have access to the necessary juvenile court records to show whether there was some sort of adjudication.  A 15 year old cadet could be "convicted" of child molest or even murder and CAP would have no way to verify the fact of the adjudication.

Ned Lee
Former Legal Officer (in CAWG)

[SarMaster]

HAHA....I know a Former Cadet that got 2b'd becouse using juvi records obtained illegally by a CAP member/COP.....

Would the cadet's future in CAP depend on if there is a conviction or not?

I don't know - I'm asking.

Not really, for two reasons:

1.  Based on the article, the only possible offense for the troop is a prosecution for some sort of "false report of an emergency" which in California is a misdemeanor.  Misdemeanor convictions are not disqualifying for CAP membership.  And as others have pointed out, even that charge is a huge stretch.  This will never even get to the DA's office for a decision, let alone to court. 

2.  As a practical matter in California, it is impossible to CAP (or any outsider for that matter) to have access to the necessary juvenile court records to show whether there was some sort of adjudication.  A 15 year old cadet could be "convicted" of child molest or even murder and CAP would have no way to verify the fact of the adjudication.

Ned Lee
Former Legal Officer (in CAWG)

[fightingfalcon]

I think this cadet should only take minor punishment because it could have been something else but mistaken for an airplane he had the right intentions supposedly. What if it was an actual plane and he had not told then some people could have been injured or even killed.

[Nathan]

One thing that is interesting is how the kid involved claimed to have gotten called out by CAP. I am assuming that this incident occurred on a school day, which would lead me to believe that said "cadet" would not get called from school.

Eh, not that weird. As an 18 high school cadet, I was "on call" for SAR missions. Say what you want about cadets getting to go on missions or whatnot, but as far as I've read, there isn't anything in the regs against schoolday missions, and if you have a real mission, the cadets being out of school for a day is likely not going to measure up to the good they can do in the field.

What confused me is how the situation actually went down...

Kid1: Hey, did a plane just crash over there?
Kid2: Yeah, the CAP satellites just saw it and contacted me over my cochlear implant.
Kid1: Oh... alright... uh...

Should Kid2 get punished? Yeah, regardless of whether or not he broke the law, he did try to use his membership in CAP for all the wrong reasons. Having cadets use their uniform to act as super-secret SAR agents isn't exactly jiving for what we're aiming for when we grant the cadet the responsibility for wearing that uniform.

A 2b? Eh... I'm not sure about that.

1) It cost the government a lot of money and annoyance, but nobody ended up getting hurt.
2) While the kid should have known better, it is HIGHLY unlikely he knew what the consequences of his actions were going to be, meaning that this is a CORRECTABLE problem.

Whenever there is a problem that can be corrected, I have a hard time justifying to myself why we should give them the axe. Generally, I reserve that for cadets who do something clearly, insanely wrong by either CAP regulations or the law, AND the cadet knew full and well approximately what the consequences were for those actions. Those types of people knew what they were doing, knew the effect it would have, and did it anyway, making what they did intentional and clearly not a simple correctable mistake.

This kid didn't really do either of those things, and while the consequences for what he did were pretty bad, I would bet my membership that, based only on the information provided in this news article, that he wouldn't do that again.

YMMV