How many of you have used CAP to get additional ratings?... and time

[FastAttack]

According to the 60-1
for non SAR/DR pilots:

CAP senior members that are not current SAR/DR mission pilots must obtain permission to receive flight instruction in CAP airplanes toward FAA certificates or ratings as follows:
(1) Senior members who hold a Private Pilot Airplane Certificate or higher and have been an active CAP member for at least 1 year – Wing commander written permission.

I am going to be honest, I want to build time to be able to become a Mission Pilot. But a lot of missions in our wing require IFR rating

I have access to CFI's willing to train me who are CAP members and are form 5 as well, they are willing to become IP's if its a requirement.

Has anyone successfully gotten approval and if you have, how did you go about doing it?

I am trying to build time with CAP to fly SR/DR missions , but I would also like to get some input.

Thanks

[Mustang]

I did my instrument rating, timebuilding and commercial ticket with CAP aircraft and instructors (my wing had one of the few 182RGs in CAP at the time, which has since been sold off).  It was all at my expense of course, but saved me a boatload of cash over what it would've cost had I done it all through an FBO or flight school.

As far as wing commander approval, I just drafted up a memo requesting authorization, citing the appropriate reg, and sent it up the chain.

It's not as big a deal as you might  think; our airplanes need hours on them or the wing risks losing them. I flew over 200 hours in the course of my training/timebuilding, which definitely helped the wing's aircraft utilization rate. In your request, spell out how many hours you intend to fly; that'll certainly help.

[flyguy06]

I have never heard of having to get permission to do flight training. So basically if you ara SAR pilot then you dont need permission from the Wing Commander? Is that what I read?

I do proficiency flights in CAP to bulid experience (I hate the phrase building time, what does that mean exactly) I build flight experience because everytime I fly I learn somethng. CAP cant really help me withany licenses or ratings. (excet a glider added on to my commercial license) So CAP aircraft are a good way for me to stay current.

[heliodoc]

flyguy

Do not worry about time building...IT IS ALL time building.  How man times have you overheard any pilot or CFI (in CAP and out) how many hours they haveor how many hours given in instructing?

Don't kid yourself,  How do you suppose it works in the real airline or otherwise flying biz...

It is the hours,  If you are doing in CAP aircraft ...GREAT .....some Wings, like mine are rating pretty low in A/C usage...so build away, my man!!

[flyguy06]

I undestand the terminology. Ijust dont like it. It gives he impression that youare just flying soely to build time and not gain experience. Is a a guy that has 2000 hours of flying straight and level in VFR day conditions a better pilot than a guy that has 500 hours flying in hard IMC at night in mutli engine aircraft shooting apporaches to minmums?  I think not

And then I really hate CFI's that say " I instruct to build time to get to thje airlines? Those are the instrucors that will never get my business or my referrels.  These guys are more concerned with building hours off my dime than actually teaching me how to fly proficiently.


Just because the term time building is a comon phrase used doesnt mean we have to accept it and use it ourselves. As CAP piots we should set the standard and not follow bad terms.

[FastAttack]

I undestand the terminology. Ijust dont like it. It gives he impression that youare just flying soely to build time and not gain experience. Is a a guy that has 2000 hours of flying straight and level in VFR day conditions a better pilot than a guy that has 500 hours flying in hard IMC at night in mutli engine aircraft shooting apporaches to minmums?  I think not

And then I really hate CFI's that say " I instruct to build time to get to thje airlines? Those are the instrucors that will never get my business or my referrels.  These guys are more concerned with building hours off my dime than actually teaching me how to fly proficiently.


Just because the term time building is a comon phrase used doesnt mean we have to accept it and use it ourselves. As CAP piots we should set the standard and not follow bad terms.

the term "building time" is very controversial and I see your point, the meaning behind it maybe different between you and I.

Understand that CAP requires you to have certain amount of time to be able to do a lot of SAR/ES flights as a pilot. I am not building time to be an ATP but trying to get as close to a professional pilot as i can.
I am just trying to get the necessary flight hours so I can take cadets , and assist in flying missions nothing more or nothing less.
Its pretty straight forward, I believe.
Remember that for any of us to fly cadets , be mission pilots we have to do a flight check and its up to the CP to determine if your skills and qualifications are enough to earn you the privileged of flying with CAP assets to begin with. That's why we have regs.

Also I want to take a jab at your comment about experience.

I for one don't fly in a straight line all day and night long.. I fly both gliders and power and have an objective in mind. In this case , get to 200 hours , get my other ratings and be as efficient and safe as possible when doing so. If at 200 hours i don't feel that i am proficient enough to take the duties. I wont.

So essence different people "build time" in different ways.

Also your comment about a pilot with 2000 hours vs 500 hours of a pilot in IMC is a null statement. Because a 2000 vfr pilot has experienced a lot more events in his flying time than IMC pilot. (ie mechanical problems, weather, atc, etc)

Again lets get back on topic here.

Mustang when you said you sent a memo , what kind of memo style did you use? I am trying not to re-invent the wheel.

[FW]

I definately used my CAP flying as time towards a commercial ticket.  To get formal instruction in a CAP aircraft is not dificult; just have your squadron/cc send a request to the wing/cc with the CFI's name included.  There might be a premade wing form designed for the purpose.  Find out what you need to send up the chain first then follow the instructions.

[DG]

I undestand the terminology. Ijust dont like it. It gives he impression that youare just flying soely to build time and not gain experience. Is a a guy that has 2000 hours of flying straight and level in VFR day conditions a better pilot than a guy that has 500 hours flying in hard IMC at night in mutli engine aircraft shooting apporaches to minmums?  I think not

I couldn't agree with you more.

And when that "pilot" gets to the regionals, is that who you want to be flying you or your loved ones?  Especially in difficult weather conditions?

[flyguy06]

I undestand the terminology. Ijust dont like it. It gives he impression that youare just flying soely to build time and not gain experience. Is a a guy that has 2000 hours of flying straight and level in VFR day conditions a better pilot than a guy that has 500 hours flying in hard IMC at night in mutli engine aircraft shooting apporaches to minmums?  I think not

And then I really hate CFI's that say " I instruct to build time to get to thje airlines? Those are the instrucors that will never get my business or my referrels.  These guys are more concerned with building hours off my dime than actually teaching me how to fly proficiently.


Just because the term time building is a comon phrase used doesnt mean we have to accept it and use it ourselves. As CAP piots we should set the standard and not follow bad terms.

the term "building time" is very controversial and I see your point, the meaning behind it maybe different between you and I.

Understand that CAP requires you to have certain amount of time to be able to do a lot of SAR/ES flights as a pilot. I am not building time to be an ATP but trying to get as close to a professional pilot as i can.
I am just trying to get the necessary flight hours so I can take cadets , and assist in flying missions nothing more or nothing less.
Its pretty straight forward, I believe.
Remember that for any of us to fly cadets , be mission pilots we have to do a flight check and its up to the CP to determine if your skills and qualifications are enough to earn you the privileged of flying with CAP assets to begin with. That's why we have regs.

Also I want to take a jab at your comment about experience.

I for one don't fly in a straight line all day and night long.. I fly both gliders and power and have an objective in mind. In this case , get to 200 hours , get my other ratings and be as efficient and safe as possible when doing so. If at 200 hours i don't feel that i am proficient enough to take the duties. I wont.

So essence different people "build time" in different ways.

Also your comment about a pilot with 2000 hours vs 500 hours of a pilot in IMC is a null statement. Because a 2000 vfr pilot has experienced a lot more events in his flying time than IMC pilot. (ie mechanical problems, weather, atc, etc)

Again lets get back on topic here.

Mustang when you said you sent a memo , what kind of memo style did you use? I am trying not to re-invent the wheel.

Dont look at it as "building time". Look at it as "building experience" There is a reason CAP doesnt want a 100 hour private pilot fyingits cadets. They want someone that has alittle bit more "experience" soits not really about the time, its about the experience.

And to your other comment. I have 1000 hours of flying General aviation single engine aircraft. I believbe the young 2nd Lt  with 250 hours and flies C-130's is probably a more skilled pilot than me.

[flynd94]

I did my CFII in a CAP aircraft.  It saved me a ton of cash, plus I love flying a C182.  Take advantage of CAP, this comes from a "time builder"      (also, flew traffic watch, flight instructed, P135 freight doggie)

[flyguy06]

Yeah but you're an airline pilot. 

[Mustang]

Yeah but you're an airline pilot. 

Sure he is -- NOW.  At one point, Keith was just another slackjawed student pilot drooling on himself.

As to the matter of timebuilding, it's entirely up to you whether you spend all those hours doing touch & gos or challenging yourself with something different on each and every flight.  Somebody once characterized this as having a thousand hours of experience vs the same hour of experience a thousand times.  Which one you pursue is your choice.

[flyguy06]

I dont mean to get off topic.

Its the word "timebuilding" I dont like. Why cant people say "building experience" cause thatis really what we should be doing. The term "timebuilding" inplies "i am not trying to learn anything I am just building hours to fill my logbook? heck if that is the persons only motivation to fill up his logbook then shy bother. just wrtie it in there.

I like to think that everytine I fly Ilearn something. I get a new experience. So the more I fly the more experience I gain. I dont build time. i gain experience. Anybody that is just trying to build time is only concerned with hours and not proficiency in my opinion.

[flyguy06]

Anyway backon topic. I have not used CAP flying to get additonal ratings and licenses. I just recently started flying more in CAP aircraft. Ido want to use CAP to help build and maintain my proficiency. I would like to do some pattern work, cross country trips, and even a flight review or IPC.

I also want to use CAP aircraft to recruit people in my area.

[Mustang]

I'd say it's because "experience" is difficult to quantify; it's a qualitative measure--as opposed to hours, which are a quantitative measure of time.  But really, it's just an informal convention, like saying "ticket" when you mean "certificate".  Certainly not worth getting wrapped around the axle over.

Mustang when you said you sent a memo , what kind of memo style did you use? I am trying not to re-invent the wheel.

Just an official memo stating something to the effect of: "In accordance with CAPR 60-1, para. x, request authorization to utilize corporate aircraft for the purpose of flight instruction leading to an additional airman certificate or rating. Instructor pilot will be Maj Flysalot.  Member join date: 10/80, FAA Private Pilot certificate No. 123456,  Airplane Single Engine Land, issued May 2002."

Covers all the bases; shows you've been a member longer than required, and already have a private ASEL ticket.

[genejackson]

I did the same thing as Mustang, a memo to the Wing/CC citing the regs asking to use the CR-182 we had in the Wing at the time to get my Commercial ticket such that I could participate in the ROTC program.   Back then, we needed a Commercial ticket to fly ROTC as well as the GA-8 that was coming.   My request was approved, I used a CAP CFII and the Wing got hours on their plane on my C-17 nickles.  And yes, I fly ROTC whenever I can to return the favor so to speak.  In the past 30 months, I have flown over 390 hours as PIC for CAP.
Go for it, get the ratings - every one of them will make you a safer and smarter pilot.