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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Membership  |  Topic: "SLS On-line (for Chaplains)"
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Poll
Question: Good idea?
Yes   -6 (14.3%)
No   -29 (69%)
Not Sure Yet...   -7 (16.7%)
Total Members Voted: 42

Author Topic: "SLS On-line (for Chaplains)"  (Read 8391 times)
DogCollar
Seasoned Member

Posts: 383
Unit: MER-VA-094

« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2009, 10:56:55 AM »

Hmmmmm.....I don't know what to say about this development.  Back in January, when the original proposal from Chaplain Woodard for changing PD requirements for Chaplains, the wording about "on-line SLS and CLC" was present.  I contacted NHQ, and was informed that language was in error and wasn't approved.  Now, here it is!

I, personally don't like on-line education, period...for anyone.  I happen to like teachers, chalk boards and uncomfortable student desks.  That being said, I think the answer would have been for more non-weekend opportunities for the teaching of SLS/CLC to be available.  However, it would have to be widespread and offered more than once a year.
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Ch. Maj. Bill Boldin, CAP
EMT-83
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,891

« Reply #21 on: September 01, 2009, 12:00:20 PM »

On-line SLS and CLC = bad idea. Anyone can go to the website and download the slides. That doesn't mean you'll actually learn anything from them.

As others have said, I definitely learned more from networking and exchanging "best practices" with other participants than I did from the course materials.
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CPT Anderson
Banned

Posts: 32

Personal Family Website
« Reply #22 on: September 01, 2009, 02:46:34 PM »

It just seems that they are almost NEVER offered on days except Sat/Sun, and that isn't good for those people who do work in the ministry.  I'm Jewish, Saturdays are out for me, but the closest squadron to me meets on Saturdays...grrrrr........

My husband is about to be a US Army Chaplain, so Sundays are going to be out too.  I have ALL of my education on-line, are my ThD and MDiv less of degrees because they were earned on-line?  Nope.  I have PLENTY of interaction on-line in my classes, but I start most of it also....
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Capt Chelle L. Anderson, CAP
(CPT, US Army, RET)
DogCollar
Seasoned Member

Posts: 383
Unit: MER-VA-094

« Reply #23 on: September 01, 2009, 03:58:25 PM »

Captain Anderson,

I just sent you a PM. 
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Ch. Maj. Bill Boldin, CAP
BrianH76
Recruit

Posts: 38

« Reply #24 on: September 01, 2009, 04:47:41 PM »

If an online SLS were to mirror (good) online college courses, where a group was enrolled at the same time, had certain participation requirements, and a good instructor/facilitator, then it may not be a bad thing.  The material could be expanded far beyond what you could do in a two-day format and participation would be far easier.  If you don't think you can learn something from participation in online discussions, then you're probably at the wrong website. :)

Honestly, I didn't get much out of the actual SLS course content.  As previously stated by some, the networking and best practices discussions were the major benefit.  But that could be achieved just as well at a conference.

If it were just an exercise in clicking through a bunch of Powerpoints and taking an online test, then it would be a bad idea and a waste of time.  It would duplicate the other Level 2 requirement for the distance-based Course 13 or its upcoming successor, the online CAP Officer Basic Course.

Considering how CAP would probably do it ... bad idea.  Done correctly ... it may have some potential.  I'm still supportive of in-residence classes, but just considering the possibilities.
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Gunner C
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,748

« Reply #25 on: September 02, 2009, 12:21:54 AM »

There's more than a few folks who work weekends or have problems with working on the Sabbath (I think CAP has WAY too many activities on Sunday; YMMV).  Have an SLS during the week.

You won't just have people coming from your wing, I'll wager that you'll attract folks from other wings, too.

Having an on-line program for chaplains is a really bad idea.
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Cecil DP
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,208

« Reply #26 on: September 02, 2009, 10:52:19 AM »

There is no requirement that an SLS or CLC be held on a weekend, only that a certain subjects and a minimum amount of hours be used to take the course. regarding being too busy or a timing conflict, the Wing. Group, or squadron PD's and Chaplains can arrange a time during the week to hold these classes. maybe 4 hours a week for four weeks.  They do this for the Chaplains RSC, they should be able to do it for SLS/CLC.
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Michael P. McEleney
LtCol CAP
MSG  USA Retired
GRW#436 Feb 85
DogCollar
Seasoned Member

Posts: 383
Unit: MER-VA-094

« Reply #27 on: September 02, 2009, 11:02:53 AM »

There's more than a few folks who work weekends or have problems with working on the Sabbath (I think CAP has WAY too many activities on Sunday; YMMV).  Have an SLS during the week.

You won't just have people coming from your wing, I'll wager that you'll attract folks from other wings, too.

Having an on-line program for chaplains is a really bad idea.

One would think that I would have learned a lesson by now, that making blanket-universal statements, like I did in my last post, only gets me in trouble!!! 

I realize that for a lot of people today, on-line training works well...and, depending on one's station in life, maybe the only realistic option to getting educational needs.

For me, when I take on-line offerings versus in-residence courses, I don't retain nearly as much.  My goal with on-line training seems to be "just get it over," as oppossed to actually learning the content.

At the risk of making another general observation that may get me in trouble, I will offer that most clergy folk are extroverted, people oriented men and women.  In other words, they tend to draw energy from the company of other people...I know that I do.  That being my observation, I would think that for chaplains, in-residence courses would be more enjoyable and the content would more likely be better retained.

I guess the on-line option is probably here to stay...however, I hope that it's use becomes the exception and not the standard...not just for Chaplains but for all CAP personnel.

That's my opinion...flame away!!!
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Ch. Maj. Bill Boldin, CAP
Gunner C
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,748

« Reply #28 on: September 02, 2009, 08:13:24 PM »

No flame here.  I'm just of the opinion that if chaplains want to be part of the force, they need to train with the force.

The chaplain's job is to support the members.  The best way to find out to do that is to train with them, especially in leadership schools and courses.  It's important that the chaplaincy understands not only the needs of those with whom they are serving but also the group personality.  There are too many clergy who are far removed from those they serve.  CAP gives a clergyman an amazing opportunity to serve others while being "one of the guys/gals."
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Spike
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,257
Unit: Top Secret

« Reply #29 on: September 02, 2009, 10:33:13 PM »

Wow......I had to take vacation time to enjoy SLS/CLC.  I think a member of the clergy can do the same. 

Lets not start dividing into "separate but equal" groups now.

This is a BAD, BAD IDEA.  I will oppose it at every chance I get. 
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Gunner C
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,748

« Reply #30 on: September 02, 2009, 11:24:20 PM »

Wow......I had to take vacation time to enjoy SLS/CLC.  I think a member of the clergy can do the same. 
I have to do that for just about anything having to do with CAP these days.

Quote
Lets not start dividing into "separate but equal" groups now.
You can't be equal if it's separate.

Quote
This is a BAD, BAD IDEA.  I will oppose it at every chance I get.
I have to agree. 
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brasda91
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 563
Unit: GLR-KY-011

Squadron website
« Reply #31 on: September 03, 2009, 08:40:28 AM »

Wow......I had to take vacation time to enjoy SLS/CLC.  I think a member of the clergy can do the same.   

When you take vacation from your job, you probably have other co-workers that help take up the slack when you're gone.  You honestly think it's that easy for a full-time chaplain to do the same thing?


No flame here.  I'm just of the opinion that if chaplains want to be part of the force, they need to train with the force.

The chaplain's job is to support the members.  The best way to find out to do that is to train with them, especially in leadership schools and courses.  It's important that the chaplaincy understands not only the needs of those with whom they are serving but also the group personality.  There are too many clergy who are far removed from those they serve.  CAP gives a clergyman an amazing opportunity to serve others while being "one of the guys/gals."

My lead chaplain is also filling in for one of the National Guard units here in town.  I get comments from them on how much they enjoy him.  He goes to their drill weekends and has even gone on annual training with them.  Not to mention the 2 Region Chaplain Staff Colleges he's attended.
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Wade Dillworth, Maj.
Paducah Composite Squadron
www.kywgcap.org/ky011
Capt Rivera
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 639
Unit: NCR-ND-005

Grand Forks Composite Squadron
« Reply #32 on: September 03, 2009, 11:19:13 AM »

Greetings,

Those that are not sure yet... or well... anyone else...

What questions would you like answered regarding this particular program?
- I can't promise answers... but you never know who might be watching and who might let answers trickle down... ;)
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//Signed//

Joshua Rivera, Capt, CAP
Squadron Commander
Grand Forks Composite Squadron
North Dakota Wing, Civil Air Patrol
http://www.grandforkscap.org
Spike
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,257
Unit: Top Secret

« Reply #33 on: September 03, 2009, 06:12:55 PM »

Yeah.....first question....WHAT?!?!

Seriously, if a Chaplain can take it on line, so can every other member.  Instead, I now have to tell my members that they each need to spend close to $200.00 if they want to move up in the PRO Development program.

That is not fair, not right and not ethical. 

Wow......I had to take vacation time to enjoy SLS/CLC.  I think a member of the clergy can do the same.   

When you take vacation from your job, you probably have other coworkers that help take up the slack when you're gone.  You honestly think it's that easy for a full-time chaplain to do the same thing?

Umm....yes it is.  Chaplains are just like every other "corporate job".  They have sick days and get vacations, and assistants to pick up the slack.  I know of not ONE church in my community, that only has one Priest assigned. 
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DogCollar
Seasoned Member

Posts: 383
Unit: MER-VA-094

« Reply #34 on: September 03, 2009, 07:31:23 PM »

Yeah.....first question....WHAT?!?!

Seriously, if a Chaplain can take it on line, so can every other member.  Instead, I now have to tell my members that they each need to spend close to $200.00 if they want to move up in the PRO Development program.

That is not fair, not right and not ethical. 

Wow......I had to take vacation time to enjoy SLS/CLC.  I think a member of the clergy can do the same.   

When you take vacation from your job, you probably have other coworkers that help take up the slack when you're gone.  You honestly think it's that easy for a full-time chaplain to do the same thing?

Umm....yes it is.  Chaplains are just like every other "corporate job".  They have sick days and get vacations, and assistants to pick up the slack.  I know of not ONE church in my community, that only has one Priest assigned.

My Lord, where do you live???  Because there is a clergy shortage all over the country, and most clergy are stretched thin, often among several congregations at once!!  That doesn't mean that a clergy cannot take a Sunday vacation, but picking up the slack in their absence?  Not likely where I live.
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Ch. Maj. Bill Boldin, CAP
jimmydeanno
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 4,155
Unit: ǝnƃoɹ

« Reply #35 on: September 03, 2009, 07:42:15 PM »

The local Catholic diocese made the decision to consolidate three separate congregations into one.  There is only one priest available to service all three churches.  They closed one and have the Priest traveling between the two to provide daily Mass, confession, and all other duties.

So...when do expect that he'll get a "vacation?"
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If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law. - Winston Churchill
Capt Rivera
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 639
Unit: NCR-ND-005

Grand Forks Composite Squadron
« Reply #36 on: September 03, 2009, 07:45:50 PM »

Sounds like those without jobs in America should move to these locations? just kidding...  >:D

We might be at a impasse on the chaplain thing...

How about some questions about the course in general... ?

Are there concerns regarding content/format/etc?
How exactly is it being presented?...
What technology and what features are available to the facilitator?
What is required of students? [WebCAM/etc]
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//Signed//

Joshua Rivera, Capt, CAP
Squadron Commander
Grand Forks Composite Squadron
North Dakota Wing, Civil Air Patrol
http://www.grandforkscap.org
Spike
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,257
Unit: Top Secret

« Reply #37 on: September 03, 2009, 09:27:25 PM »

I am wondering if I complain long enough and loud enough....will NHQ let me take NSC on line??  I have stuff during the week just like Chaplains!

So because I do not have a degree in GOD, I can't take SLS on line. 

I wonder how well this is going to go over in a year after it is implemented. 

How about......"I am a very religious person, and can not attend any training on weekends".  Will that excuse work for on line SLS??  Some people in CAP CAN NOT attend weekend activities because of faith.  Lets open it up to them as well.

If we don't open it up to them, CAP Corporate is saying "your faith doesn't matter", but your Priests faith does".

If we wanted to get real picky with it, this can be a discrimination case against certain religious groups as well.

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Cecil DP
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,208

« Reply #38 on: September 03, 2009, 10:55:22 PM »

I am wondering if I complain long enough and loud enough....will NHQ let me take NSC on line??  .

 It's  called. Air Command and Staff College
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Michael P. McEleney
LtCol CAP
MSG  USA Retired
GRW#436 Feb 85
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,527

« Reply #39 on: September 03, 2009, 11:06:45 PM »

So...when do expect that he'll get a "vacation?"

Sounds like he doesn't have a whole lot of time for CAP either.

This, like many other "problems", solves itself.
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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Membership  |  Topic: "SLS On-line (for Chaplains)"
 


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