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alamrcn
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 641
Unit: NCR-MN-047

Civil Air Patrol Patches
« on: August 31, 2009, 02:50:25 PM »

I know this might be like asking to amend the U.S. Constitution, but...

Whereas
There are a number of topics and threads strewn throughout the board that deal with Civil Air Patrol's history.

and

Whereas
There are MANY vistors with a particular keen interest in discussing and learning about the many aspects of Civil Air Patrol history.

and

Whereas
Most of the discussions involving history might fit in another subject, but would better suit the board's visitors and support the efforts of preserving Civil Air Patrol's history.

I therefore propose
"History" be given a subject heading under the "General Discussion" catagory.
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Ace Browning, Maj, CAP
History Hoarder
71st Wing, Minnesota
notaNCO forever
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 647

« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2009, 03:27:49 PM »

 I'm pretty sure this has been proposed and shot down before a few times.
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GoofyOne
Recruit

Posts: 48

« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2009, 03:28:03 PM »

As a Squadron Historian and CAP history buff I would be in favor of this.
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dwb
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,340

« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2009, 03:29:32 PM »

I oppose it, on the grounds that Ace supports it. :P
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Spike
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,258
Unit: Top Secret

« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2009, 04:41:27 PM »

If this happens.....can you imagine how many little back-and-forth argumentative posts would come about regarding one persons take on something as opposed to another persons take on it.

Each and every thread would wind up getting locked. 
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whatevah
Administrator

Posts: 1,046

my personal website, yo!
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2009, 06:32:04 PM »

since I don't know what a catagory is... the answer is No.  :)    Plus, I absolutely hate legalese, with a passion.

The current policy seems to be that if there is a big enough demand for a new section, we'll create it.  However, I haven't seen many topics that would belong in a history forum.

Also, previous request: http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=6453.0
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Jerry Horn
CAPTalk Co-Admin
Smithsonia
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,123

« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2009, 06:47:01 PM »

I don't think the issue is where (history discussions are) but how much (History discussions there are.) I am for more. This is not just because I am a historian. It is because I believe that our history has great power.

1. Other agencies like FEMA and HSD have none to little. For them our history can be a marketing tool for CAP. If you can quote the great stories of our finds and saves we will gain stature in their eyes.

2. It explains much about our culture, which appears too military for some and not military enough for others.

3. It explains what we can, should, will, hope to do. If we've done it before. If we'd like to do more of it. If we are trained and motivated to do a job... that is illustrated in our history.

Everything we are is incorporated in our history. Learn it and use it. It is not just our past... it is our destiny too.

History should be one of our lead punches. It is for the Marines, the Coast Guard, and FBI. It is for many other good agency's with the stories to tell and those stories carry heft in the real world about doing real work.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2009, 09:57:06 PM by Smithsonia » Logged
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ED OBRIEN
MovingOnToOtherThings
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,300

« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2009, 05:03:37 AM »

Everything we are is incorporated in our history. Learn it and use it. It is not just our past... it is our destiny too.

History should be one of our lead punches. It is for the Marines, the Coast Guard, and FBI. It is for many other good agency's with the stories to tell and those stories carry heft in the real world about doing real work.

I agree completly. The historical folks are working on ways to bring our history to the forefront for our members. The Historical Foundation will be discussing new ways to do this at the NB this week.
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jimmydeanno
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Posts: 4,155
Unit: ǝnƃoɹ

« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2009, 09:11:41 AM »

I would very much be in favor of this.  Not only is our History something that is of great importance to our organization, but something that most of our members truly enjoy - even if they aren't historians.

Besides, it would probably get more use than the "safety" and "tall tales" sections...
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If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law. - Winston Churchill
Smithsonia
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,123

« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2009, 09:39:23 AM »

The New York City Fire Services will have 9-11 ceremonies in a few days. You will know about these ceremonies. You will see these ceremonies on the news. There is
a significant moment of American History that the NYFD has fully integrated into their History. 9-11 and NYFD are all now one great and magnificent story.

The FAA has no similar sense of their history. The Port Authority of New York, The Transit Authority, etc. have no similar sense of their own history. SO, watch over the next few days; how the embracing of history makes a difference to the perceptions of the public. Watch: How History leads. How history serves. What history means.

What I have described is a perfect example of History, Historians, and the real value of the work we do.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2009, 09:44:02 AM by Smithsonia » Logged
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ED OBRIEN
alamrcn
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 641
Unit: NCR-MN-047

Civil Air Patrol Patches
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2009, 11:01:17 AM »

Quote from: whatevah
since I don't know what a catagory is... the answer is No.  :)   

Sorry, I didn't quite know how the bulletin board flow chart and its terms. What I was asking for this...

CAP Talk / General Discussion / History / <related thread>

Several people above have just made some very good points. We, the board users, would apreciate and certainly use, a dedicated space to go to for CAP History related discussions.

One of the oldest active and most posted to threads, Mike/Pylon's "Best of Squadron Patches" would serve well in such a catagory. It seems administrators havev become tired of that discussion (and similar, ie. New Florida Wing patch) straying too much into heraldry and emblem designing -- which are not uniform topics.

Once of the most professional and worthy of reading threads in a long time has been Ed/Smithsonia's "Rediscovering Maj. Gen. John F. Curry" editorials and research notes. Located in, but not fully appropriate to "Aerospace Education" and certainly too good for the "The Lobby" and any other miscellanious discussion bin.

There was the document treasure trove found awhile back - which I forget who was doing that. Several fine and VERY interesting copies of letters from the 40s were posted. They were very apreciated by those who had found them in the forums to read.

Very recently, a new member and new Squadron Historian was looking for assistance. I was lucky enough to have just happened to fall onto the discussion, where some other board members posted advice to help her out.

Quote from: Pylon, November 2008
If a subject matter is generating a lot of topics, it will warrant its own section.

There IS a lot of subject matter out thee. It's just strewn throughout the various semi-related areas.

SO PLEASE... Consider this idea openly and thouroghly, as I just really can't see it as a wrong move for the vistors of the board. Please don't just say no because this board is not a democracy.

Thank you all.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2009, 11:38:00 AM by MIKE » Logged

 

Ace Browning, Maj, CAP
History Hoarder
71st Wing, Minnesota
whatevah
Administrator

Posts: 1,046

my personal website, yo!
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2009, 10:53:53 PM »

I haven't been ignoring this, just busy with work.

My comment about not knowing what a "catagory" is was just a rib about spelling. It's actually "category".

Like Pylon and I said, and was expressed in the previous threads, we will create a new category if there is enough demand for it as shown in previous and threads recently active.  I haven't seen enough threads that would apply to a purely historical section.  Some are interesting, but not on history.    I'll check back in a few weeks to review the threads.
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Jerry Horn
CAPTalk Co-Admin
RiverAux
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 10,967

« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2009, 11:06:46 PM »

I like the history threads, but I don't think we have enough of them to equal half the threads in the safety category. 
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Pylon
Administrator

Posts: 5,165
Unit: NER-NH-038

Michael Kieloch, Marketing Communications & PR Leadership
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2009, 12:20:22 AM »

Like Jerry said, we base creation of new categories based on the number of discussions taking place.  And as Jerry and others pointed out, we already have some "dead" sections of the site. 

Creating a new section also takes foot-work and time.  Someone has to comb through the thousands of threads on CAPTalk to find all the relevant ones to be moved to the new section (and then actually move them).

So if you want search through CAPTalk and if you can find more than 150 topics that would belong in a history category, I'd say we would seriously consider it.
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Michael F. Kieloch, Maj, CAP
Concord Composite Squadron, NH       
Smithsonia
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,123

« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2009, 11:01:25 AM »

Well, if you guys are looking for 150 topics as a threshold to start a history section. I've got somewhere between 10-15 percent of that total. Should anyone like, I think I can still remember and find most of those. That said, I am just one guy. ADD, Jim Shaw, RiverAux, Rotorhead, Wuzafuzz and a couple more history participants and we can likely find that total you need.

ADMINISTRATORS: If one wanted to lay all of their history threads at your doorstep, so to evaluate a history section, how would one do this?
« Last Edit: September 04, 2009, 11:05:38 AM by Smithsonia » Logged
With regards;
ED OBRIEN
jimmydeanno
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 4,155
Unit: ǝnƃoɹ

« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2009, 12:08:35 PM »

This is what I found in only "THE LOBBY"

CAP Historian            http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=629.0
Oldest CAP Member         http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=693.0
CAP Historical Aviation Exhibit      http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=1062.0
U-Boat Information Request      http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=1134.0
Changing CAP to USCAP         http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=1684.0
Lee Harvey Oswald in CAP      http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=2104.0
Flying Minutemen Audio Book      http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=1035.0
CAP History            http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=802.0
CAP Annual Reports         http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=2321.0
LTC Wynant C. Farr Sub Sinker      http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=2415.0
Coastal Patrol Bases in WWII      http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=2418.0
Previous Nat’l CC opposing regs      http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=2425.0
Satellite Cadet Squadron Book Info   http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=2608.0
CAP Public Law from Archives      http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=2519.0
Coastal Patrol Base 15         http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=2711.0
Katrina Response         http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=2541.0
CAP Museum            http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=2737.0
Army Air Corps Uniform         http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=3103.0
CAP Memorial            http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=2320.0
Air Force Museum         http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=3241.0
First Non-US Member of CAP      http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=3554.0
Wolf PatrolCorpus Christi Insignia   http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=3675.0
CAP History Book         http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=2919.0
Two Killed in CAP Crash         http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=3491.0
Celebrities in CAP         http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=3729.0
Day of Infamy Fading from Memory   http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=3722.0
CAP Buys #8,000 from Cessna      http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=3832.0
World Trade Center Memorial      http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=4112.0
CAP Promoting its History      http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=4545.0
California Historian         http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=4916.0
Out of Print CAP Publications      http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=5052.0
Annual Wing Histories         http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=5810.0
Eyes of the Home Skies Poster      http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=6022.0
Historical Documents         http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=4519.0
Texas CAP History         http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=6069.0
CAP Sub Sinking Information      http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=6039.0
CAP Historian Information      http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=6277.0
African Americans in WWII CAP      http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=6306.0
CAP NHQ Photo from Ellington AFB   http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=6326.0
67th Anniversary thread         http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=6667.0
First CAP Unit Citation         http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=6791.0
CAP History “Odds”         http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=6476.0
Additions to History Webpage      http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=6323.0
Alaska Wing on History Channel      http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=7215.0
NHQ Renovations         http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=7795.0
Archibald E. Campbell Info      http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=8105.0
CAP History            http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=7855.0
CAP National Curator         http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=8327.0

TOTAL = 50

I can't wait for the Uniforms and Awards Thread.
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If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law. - Winston Churchill
jimmydeanno
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 4,155
Unit: ǝnƃoɹ

« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2009, 02:41:12 PM »

Here's the rest, minus "Tall Tales" because I think some/most of it could be used as "living history".

UNIFORMS
Ira Eaker Mini Medal Approved      http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=7169.0
The best of squadron patches      http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=572.0
CAP Bookstore catalog         http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=6622.0
1942 OCD Insignia Regulation      http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=7406.0
Rank Insignia – Back to the Future   http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=7408.0
WWII – Women Wearing Hats Indoors   http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=7464.0
When did CAP start numbering awards   http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=6390.0
Shoulder Sleeve Insignia WWII      http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=6388.0
Nevada Wings New Emblem      http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=5865.0
CAP Air Medals            http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=5517.0
Historical Ribbon Document      http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=4535.0
Silver Clasp on Earhart         http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=4044.0
1930s era Service Cap         http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=3187.0
Unit Patch Histories         http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=3141.0
WWII Era CAP Insignia Chart      http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=2850.0
Old AF Enlisted Grade Insignia      http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=1849.0
CAP Uniform History         http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=1776.0
Uniform Update from 2006      http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=1032.0


MEMBERSHIP
WWII Era Members            http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=1026.0
CAP 65 Years Ago            http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=1131.0
1940s Cadet ID Card            http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=2829.0
Longest Serving CAP member         http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=3090.0
Old Cadet Ranking System         http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=4676.0
Advice for new Historian         http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=8759.0


AEROSPACE EDUCATION

CAP Historical Foundation         http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=431.0
Historical Marker Coastal Base 3      http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=1090.0
Wally Schira Death            http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=2023.0
Willa Brown Chapel            http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=2838.0
64th Anniversary of D-Day         http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=5260.0
When we left earth            http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=5282.0
Spitfire celebrates 70 years         http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=5697.0
Liaison Planes and “The Patrol”         http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=6781.0
Early photos of John Curry         http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=7203.0
Local History               http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=7252.0
Rediscovering John F. Curry         http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=5582.0

AVIATION AND FLYING ACTIVITIES
CAP Heritage Flight            http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=812.0
CAP Airplane History            http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=2754.0

TOTAL THREADS: 40

GRAND TOTAL INCLUDING ABOVE: 90

Also note that these are just the ones that caught my eye, some of the inappropriately titled ones may have gone by without me noticing.

Also, NB minutes/discussions could qualify as "History," new personnel assignments, etc.
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If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law. - Winston Churchill
RiverAux
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 10,967

« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2009, 02:59:28 PM »

I don't want to ever again have someone say I spend too much time on CAPTALK!  Nice work jimmy. 
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Smithsonia
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,123

« Reply #18 on: September 04, 2009, 05:28:11 PM »

Jimmydeanno wins the coveted Gold Star! While making the rest of us look lazy and much regrettable. Good going Jimmy.
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ED OBRIEN
GoofyOne
Recruit

Posts: 48

« Reply #19 on: September 04, 2009, 05:58:45 PM »

Wow as a newer squadron historian you folks have given me a gift. I can't wait to look this stuff over.  In the mean time I think you have proven there is room for a History thread.  Thanks again.
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alamrcn
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 641
Unit: NCR-MN-047

Civil Air Patrol Patches
« Reply #20 on: September 04, 2009, 09:56:51 PM »

VERY, VERY, VERY good job!  :clap:
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Ace Browning, Maj, CAP
History Hoarder
71st Wing, Minnesota
Gunner C
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,748

« Reply #21 on: September 05, 2009, 09:56:53 PM »

It looks like we have a real treasure trove of CAP history here.  I haven't seen so much in one space anywhere.  I'm thinking that this could be a real resource for CAP historians, especially if all of the information was put in one spot.

 :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
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MovingOnToOtherThings
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,300

« Reply #22 on: September 08, 2009, 09:21:28 PM »

I would support the idea if it were done.
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Always seeking to learn.
alamrcn
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 641
Unit: NCR-MN-047

Civil Air Patrol Patches
« Reply #23 on: December 01, 2009, 05:40:05 PM »

>>> BUMP <<<



I keep seeing CAP History related threads strung out ALL OVER the board, that go without much discussion and possibly not even read by those who might benefit from, contribute to, and enjoy them the most.

There is so much information and so many discussions that could be consolidated into a History area. The other areas might even benefit from the "clean up" of these threads.

PLEASE ? ? ?     :-*
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Ace Browning, Maj, CAP
History Hoarder
71st Wing, Minnesota
Spike
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,258
Unit: Top Secret

« Reply #24 on: December 01, 2009, 06:44:18 PM »

^ +1
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whatevah
Administrator

Posts: 1,046

my personal website, yo!
« Reply #25 on: December 01, 2009, 06:56:02 PM »

I'm still not seeing a lot of activity.  I only see a handful of threads posted in the last 60 from all the boards that would be moved into a history section.  Not really worth my time to create a new board and spend the time to move just a couple threads into it.   This may be a "chicken or the egg" type thing, but it's what we've used for creating the other boards.    Now, if somebody wanted to grease my paypal account... ;)
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Jerry Horn
CAPTalk Co-Admin
alamrcn
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 641
Unit: NCR-MN-047

Civil Air Patrol Patches
« Reply #26 on: December 01, 2009, 07:43:07 PM »

Jerry -

If that's what it takes, I'm in for $10!
Anyone want to match/beat my donation to the board?

Considering how much benefit it could potentially have towards documenting, preserving and sharing CAP's history and related subjects... Yeah, it's that important to me!
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Ace Browning, Maj, CAP
History Hoarder
71st Wing, Minnesota
Dracosbane
Forum Regular

Posts: 181

« Reply #27 on: December 02, 2009, 02:17:06 AM »

Looks like someone got their wish!   :clap: :D
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alamrcn
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 641
Unit: NCR-MN-047

Civil Air Patrol Patches
« Reply #28 on: December 02, 2009, 06:32:26 PM »

 :clap: SHWEET!  :clap:

THANK YOU! THANK YOU! You won't regret it!

Do I send a PayPal payment to: -
Or does the board have its own donation account?

If anyone sees a history related thread already in progress out there on the board, "MOD FLAG" it to be moved over to the new subject  :)
« Last Edit: June 13, 2017, 12:40:08 AM by whatevah » Logged

 

Ace Browning, Maj, CAP
History Hoarder
71st Wing, Minnesota
whatevah
Administrator

Posts: 1,046

my personal website, yo!
« Reply #29 on: December 02, 2009, 06:54:51 PM »

I was just kidding (mostly) about the paypal (and that's not the address I use for paypal).   There might be an announcement in the future about supporting CAPTalk monetarily, feel free to use that, if we ever do it, and if you feel you need to.

Yeah, I guess use the report to moderator link.  Not all threads will be moved, depending on how we feel about it.  My goal is kinda to have more stuff actually of use to historians and people doing research.  Some of the topics suggested earlier were not moved.
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Jerry Horn
CAPTalk Co-Admin
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