Driver Training Program

[Capt Rivera]

Thanks for the clarification....

[Al Sayre]

I've thought about requiring my senior members to have "X" amount of hours behind the wheel before I give them their license.  I don't think it's right or safe to simply say "OK, here's your license.  Take them to ____".  Some of them may never have driven anything as big as our vans.

Do they have "X" amount of time behind a CAP Van?
- What I'm trying to ask... are you letting them behind the wheel transporting people/cargo without a license(monitored I presume)... to see if thy are capable of handling the license?

No, I haven't implemented anything.  I wouldn't/don't allow anyone to drive the van until they have been licensed.

What I would do would be, once the license for the individual is sent to me, I would take that member out in the van for "X" amount of time and let him/her put in some time.  Ask them to parallel park, back into parking spaces and anything else I can think of.  It would be a standardized course so that all new drivers in the squadron would do the same thing.  All of this would be done without anyone but myself or another authorized staff member in the van.  Heck you could even make it a "step" program.  So many hours with an instructor, progressing to a fully loaded van and then giving them their license.

What are you going to do when they decide having a CAP drivers license isn't worth the hassel (especially if you are the only squadron requiring it) and you have no one to drive the van?  In my area, just getting a copy of their driving record so they can apply for the license costs them $10 and a three hour trip to the DMV...

[Capt Rivera]

What are you going to do when they decide having a CAP drivers license isn't worth the hassel (especially if you are the only squadron requiring it) and you have no one to drive the van?  In my area, just getting a copy of their driving record so they can apply for the license costs them $10 and a three hour trip to the DMV...

Ouch... Not an issue here... Our wing either gets them for free or pays for them for ND Records. Those with records from other states I reimbursed $3 or $5...

Most records should be available by request online at the state DMV website... This is even available in ND... and we still use outhouses and horses

--Added---

In our squadron... we have more licensed members then actual willing drivers... Those that do the driving now would probably be supportive of a standard... Those coming in wont know different and well... too bad?
- Like everything... it would be a "pilot program"... we will see how it works out... modify... continue... etc...

There were lots of ideas of things that should be covered... Don't know how practical all of them were... applicable maybe... practical to teach on a regular basis within the confines of CAP... not sure...

[brasda91]

I've thought about requiring my senior members to have "X" amount of hours behind the wheel before I give them their license.  I don't think it's right or safe to simply say "OK, here's your license.  Take them to ____".  Some of them may never have driven anything as big as our vans.

Do they have "X" amount of time behind a CAP Van?
- What I'm trying to ask... are you letting them behind the wheel transporting people/cargo without a license(monitored I presume)... to see if thy are capable of handling the license?

No, I haven't implemented anything.  I wouldn't/don't allow anyone to drive the van until they have been licensed.

What I would do would be, once the license for the individual is sent to me, I would take that member out in the van for "X" amount of time and let him/her put in some time.  Ask them to parallel park, back into parking spaces and anything else I can think of.  It would be a standardized course so that all new drivers in the squadron would do the same thing.  All of this would be done without anyone but myself or another authorized staff member in the van.  Heck you could even make it a "step" program.  So many hours with an instructor, progressing to a fully loaded van and then giving them their license.

What are you going to do when they decide having a CAP drivers license isn't worth the hassel (especially if you are the only squadron requiring it) and you have no one to drive the van?  In my area, just getting a copy of their driving record so they can apply for the license costs them $10 and a three hour trip to the DMV...

Then I don't need the new member.  I need quality members, not quantity.  We have training in other areas before we send the new members off unassisted (GTL).  Why not incorporate some form of drivers training to help protect the youth of our nation that may be in the van?  If someone balks at that, do you really want them behind the wheel?  What other training are they going to try and get out of?  The whole purpose behind training is so that you understand the task and can perform it safely on your own.

[A.Member]

What's the point?  What problem is being solved?  The training is supposed to teach you how to drive the van?  Who will conduct the training?  What will their qualifications be?

States conduct drivers exams and issue licenses.  There is nothing special about our vans - they are not commecial vehicles.  Safety officers conduct briefs.  Aside from that, if you're licensed, you're good to go.

How about we stick to real issues.  This is not one of them.

[Al Sayre]

During her opening remarks, Gen Courter was just talking about making CAP the best place to volunteer and one of the plans was for streamlining regs etc. 

If being 21 or over, and having a valid DL are the requirements set by NHQ & your Wing; then placing more hurdles, like your own version of a driver's'ed program, in front of the new members is not something we should be doing at the squadron level.

[Spike]

I posted a link to some great visual aids about vans, and why they roll over.  That is really all that is needed.  Tell the prospective van driver, "look at these slides, and see why vans get in crashes.....then have a safe trip"

[EMT-83]

This has been an interesting discussion; thank you all for your opinions. I had been thinking that despite haven driven CAP vehicles at squadron, wing and region level activities, I never once had to demonstrate competency.

After reading of vehicle incidents in the Sentinel, and stumbling across Internet articles on van crashes, it occurred to me that we may be missing an important component of our safety program. We spend lots of time and energy checking off boxes for no apparent reason, but we're willing to send a van full of cadets down the road with a driver who might not know the first thing about the vehicle that he's driving.

The fact that a member has a driver's license and a clean history doesn't necessarily mean that he is aware of how easy our vans can roll over. Google van safety and it's pretty obvious that this might not be true. Read through back issues of the Sentinel and it appears that some of our van operators don't know how to use mirrors and maneuver the vehicles. I say appears because details are few, but inferences can be made.

I respect the view of those who say that this isn't a squadron issue. However, I think that it's important that drivers know the handling characteristics and mechanical components of the vehicles they will actually be driving, not a generic vehicle type.

Moving forward, I'm going to work on a basic program for my squadron. I plan to incorporate material and ideas presented in this forum.

[Airrace]

I've thought about requiring my senior members to have "X" amount of hours behind the wheel before I give them their license.  I don't think it's right or safe to simply say "OK, here's your license.  Take them to ____".  Some of them may never have driven anything as big as our vans.

Do they have "X" amount of time behind a CAP Van?
- What I'm trying to ask... are you letting them behind the wheel transporting people/cargo without a license(monitored I presume)... to see if thy are capable of handling the license?

No, I haven't implemented anything.  I wouldn't/don't allow anyone to drive the van until they have been licensed.

What I would do would be, once the license for the individual is sent to me, I would take that member out in the van for "X" amount of time and let him/her put in some time.  Ask them to parallel park, back into parking spaces and anything else I can think of.  It would be a standardized course so that all new drivers in the squadron would do the same thing.  All of this would be done without anyone but myself or another authorized staff member in the van.  Heck you could even make it a "step" program.  So many hours with an instructor, progressing to a fully loaded van and then giving them their license.

What are you going to do when they decide having a CAP drivers license isn't worth the hassel (especially if you are the only squadron requiring it) and you have no one to drive the van?  In my area, just getting a copy of their driving record so they can apply for the license costs them $10 and a three hour trip to the DMV...

In California you can go online and have DMV send you a report of your driving record.

[Capt Rivera]

Moving forward, I'm going to work on a basic program for my squadron. I plan to incorporate material and ideas presented in this forum.

When you have version 1 of your program... I hope you share the plan/outline/etc...