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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  The Lobby  |  Topic: Should we reclassify "senior members without grade" as "Airman"?
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Poll
Question: Should Senior Members Without Grade be reclassifed and be given the grade of Airman, call them Officer Candidates but not address issues of grade, or stay the same?
Assign them the grade of Airman   -14 (18.7%)
Rename them Officer Candidate but still not assign them an actual grade   -10 (13.3%)
I really like having SMWOG   -13 (17.3%)
Having SMWOG causes some problems, but is not worth changing a regulation to address   -16 (21.3%)
I just don't care   -22 (29.3%)
Total Members Voted: 75

Author Topic: Should we reclassify "senior members without grade" as "Airman"?  (Read 8539 times)
flyguy06
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,195

« Reply #80 on: August 18, 2009, 05:07:42 PM »

Not anpother online or correspndence course. We ned to have something where people physcially go somewhere.

Firstof all, not everyone is computer lit like the great folks on here. Secondly, not everyone will take the time to do correspondence courses. We need something where people are mandated to come.
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Thom
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Unit: SWR-LA-010

Louisiana Wing Website
« Reply #81 on: August 18, 2009, 05:24:03 PM »

Not anpother online or correspndence course. We ned to have something where people physcially go somewhere.

Firstof all, not everyone is computer lit like the great folks on here. Secondly, not everyone will take the time to do correspondence courses. We need something where people are mandated to come.

Isn't that the point of SLS and CLC?  That they force interaction with other CAP members face to face for imparting those lessons?

Also, about not everyone being computer literate?  Not much we can do for them, it isn't just CAP that is headed Online.  I'm a professional Computer Nerd with enough alphabet soup after my name to make a decent lunch (mmmm, soup...) but I don't like being so beholden to computers for every facet of modern life, but you know what?  That's the way it is and will be.

With the new FRO process you can't even release a flight unless both the MP and the FRO are computer literate and have access to an Internet-connected computer!  (Well, there is the fallback to HF to get the NOC to do it!   :D  )

I'm not trying to defend the Open Book testing we are using currently for Distance Learning, but trying to roll back the clock isn't going to work either.

Thom Hamilton
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DrJbdm
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Posts: 380

« Reply #82 on: August 18, 2009, 07:31:55 PM »

Well, SLS and CLC was a big joke, those two courses need to be completely redesigned. I learned nothing from those courses, it covers nothing more then level 1 did.
 
  Open book testing does nothing for our members either. It cheapens the whole experience of earning a passing grade.

   As for computers, they are here to stay and we will one day be unable to do much in CAP without them. What do we do with those members who are not computer lit? I don't know, but their usefullness is about done. Maybe it will be a good oppurtunity to either become computer lit and be able to serve or leave CAP. We can not continue to try and fit both types of members in the org anymore.
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RiverAux
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 10,978

« Reply #83 on: August 18, 2009, 10:09:38 PM »

topic?
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DrJbdm
Seasoned Member

Posts: 380

« Reply #84 on: August 18, 2009, 10:25:34 PM »

I say we classify SMWOG as either Instructors or as Airman. The term Senior Member has to go bye bye.

 Now back to our regular hijacked topic!  ;D
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Spike
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« Reply #85 on: August 18, 2009, 11:17:38 PM »

The term Senior Member has to go bye bye.

Why??

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RiverAux
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Posts: 10,978

« Reply #86 on: August 18, 2009, 11:23:12 PM »

I say we classify SMWOG as either Instructors or as Airman.
Instructors?  Is that the word you meant to write?  Can't think of many of the typical SMWOG who do any instructing. 
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STG3, USN
Recruit

Posts: 10

« Reply #87 on: August 18, 2009, 11:29:19 PM »

I think the term Senior Member is fitting and I also think Airman just doesnt really make since. Officer Candidate would work to I guess.
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Stonewall
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« Reply #88 on: August 18, 2009, 11:34:16 PM »

We ned to have something where people physcially go somewhere.


Why did you have to bring Ned into this?  >:D
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Cecil DP
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« Reply #89 on: August 19, 2009, 01:14:52 AM »

I think the term Senior Member is fitting and I also think Airman just doesnt really make since. Officer Candidate would work to I guess.

Senior Member has worked for several decades. The term Officer Candidate assumes that the individual wants to be or will be appointed as an officer in the near future. Airman assumes it's unlikely he'll ever become an officer.
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Michael P. McEleney
LtCol CAP
MSG  USA Retired
GRW#436 Feb 85
RiverAux
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 10,978

« Reply #90 on: August 19, 2009, 02:15:43 AM »

Quote
The term Officer Candidate assumes that the individual wants to be or will be appointed as an officer in the near future.
Well, although I don't like that option, it is true that almost all SMWOGs become an officer if they stay in CAP (see my first post) under our current system.

Quote
Airman assumes it's unlikely he'll ever become an officer.
Do we assume that an Air Force Airman won't ever be promoted?  Airman is just a grade.  Because we make folks 2nd Lt. that doesn't mean that we expect them to stay there.   
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flyguy06
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« Reply #91 on: August 19, 2009, 04:56:15 AM »

Not anpother online or correspndence course. We ned to have something where people physcially go somewhere.

Firstof all, not everyone is computer lit like the great folks on here. Secondly, not everyone will take the time to do correspondence courses. We need something where people are mandated to come.

Isn't that the point of SLS and CLC?  That they force interaction with other CAP members face to face for imparting those lessons?

Also, about not everyone being computer literate?  Not much we can do for them, it isn't just CAP that is headed Online.  I'm a professional Computer Nerd with enough alphabet soup after my name to make a decent lunch (mmmm, soup...) but I don't like being so beholden to computers for every facet of modern life, but you know what?  That's the way it is and will be.

With the new FRO process you can't even release a flight unless both the MP and the FRO are computer literate and have access to an Internet-connected computer!  (Well, there is the fallback to HF to get the NOC to do it!   :D  )

I'm not trying to defend the Open Book testing we are using currently for Distance Learning, but trying to roll back the clock isn't going to work either.

Thom Hamilton


Well, I guess acording to you then, CAP has become an elitest organization. Only people who are computer lit or who canafford computers may participate. I remember when the OPSEC requirement came out. Most of my cadets come from homes that do not have computers. so luckily we have a senior member who is a network admin guy and he was able to let us use his computers at his job. Otherwise  they would have been lost.


As for SLS and CLC. They are more death by power point classes.
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Major Carrales
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Posts: 4,106

« Reply #92 on: August 19, 2009, 05:43:11 AM »

Not anpother online or correspndence course. We ned to have something where people physcially go somewhere.

Firstof all, not everyone is computer lit like the great folks on here. Secondly, not everyone will take the time to do correspondence courses. We need something where people are mandated to come.

Isn't that the point of SLS and CLC?  That they force interaction with other CAP members face to face for imparting those lessons?

Also, about not everyone being computer literate?  Not much we can do for them, it isn't just CAP that is headed Online.  I'm a professional Computer Nerd with enough alphabet soup after my name to make a decent lunch (mmmm, soup...) but I don't like being so beholden to computers for every facet of modern life, but you know what?  That's the way it is and will be.

With the new FRO process you can't even release a flight unless both the MP and the FRO are computer literate and have access to an Internet-connected computer!  (Well, there is the fallback to HF to get the NOC to do it!   :D  )

I'm not trying to defend the Open Book testing we are using currently for Distance Learning, but trying to roll back the clock isn't going to work either.

Thom Hamilton


Well, I guess according to you then, CAP has become an elitist organization. Only people who are computer lit or who can afford computers may participate. I remember when the OPSEC requirement came out. Most of my cadets come from homes that do not have computers. so luckily we have a senior member who is a network admin guy and he was able to let us use his computers at his job. Otherwise  they would have been lost.


As for SLS and CLC. They are more death by power point classes.

At our unit we offer wireless internet and laptops, there are plenty of public areas where internet access is a "side effect" of having the right to check out a book.

Its not an "elitist" anything, it is the current trend in education, business and the like.  If CAPNHQ is going to mandate on-line training they had better take into account the realities of computer access. (which currently is not unrealistic to get done)

Also, in a neighboring unit there is a fellow well into his 80s writing code and on the edge of the STATE of the ART, so the idea that a person is to OLD to use computers (or even be guided by some who is computer literate) is disingenuous at best and at worse a "piss poor" excuse. (sorry, but that is just the truth, if a person can fly an aircraft or organize a ground team, it is not out of the scope of reality to expect them to learn how to log in to e-services and enter data or click through an online test)

It can be done, if the will to do it is there
« Last Edit: August 19, 2009, 05:50:25 AM by Major Carrales » Report to moderator   Logged
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Major Joe Ely "Sparky" Carrales, CAP
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SWR-TX-454
Thom
Seasoned Member

Posts: 255
Unit: SWR-LA-010

Louisiana Wing Website
« Reply #93 on: August 19, 2009, 07:26:36 AM »

Also, about not everyone being computer literate?  Not much we can do for them, it isn't just CAP that is headed Online.  I'm a professional Computer Nerd with enough alphabet soup after my name to make a decent lunch (mmmm, soup...) but I don't like being so beholden to computers for every facet of modern life, but you know what?  That's the way it is and will be.

With the new FRO process you can't even release a flight unless both the MP and the FRO are computer literate and have access to an Internet-connected computer!  (Well, there is the fallback to HF to get the NOC to do it!   :D  )

Thom Hamilton


Well, I guess acording to you then, CAP has become an elitest organization. Only people who are computer lit or who canafford computers may participate. I remember when the OPSEC requirement came out. Most of my cadets come from homes that do not have computers. so luckily we have a senior member who is a network admin guy and he was able to let us use his computers at his job. Otherwise  they would have been lost.

OK, we are into serious thread drift here, but why not:

I don't think I said that CAP was becoming an Elitest Organization, I said that CAP was following the general trend.  More and more of our lives are being spent Online, the .Gov is providing more and more of their services to the citizenry Online, and children are now growing up (at least in Urban and Suburban areas...) without EVER being disconnected from the Internet.  I believe I even said I'm not comfortable with the level of reliance we are placing on computers and networks for all aspects of modern life, but I accept that the trend is towards more Online existence in most facets of American life.

We can fight the current, or ride it.

As Major Carrales points out, Internet access should be available at most Squadron/Wing facilities, and virtually all Public Libraries.  I understand that there are lots of Rural and/or Less Fortunate families who will not have computers and Internet Access at home, but we need to find a solution to let those members use some other access to complete their tasks, NOT hold back the rest of the organization.

Perfect Example:  The Digital Broadcast TV Transition.  We cut off a couple million viewers of old-fashioned NTSC Broadcast Analog TV because we simply couldn't wait any longer to transition everyone else.  We provided coupons for Converter Boxes for those who didn't have new Digital TVs, but we didn't keep a legacy Analog system around just because 2% of the users couldn't or wouldn't make a change, while 98% were ready to move ahead.

Thom Hamilton
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BillB
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Posts: 1,987

« Reply #94 on: August 19, 2009, 11:14:25 AM »

It's to the point that tax supported public schools are requireing students to have computers, normally laptops. So the vast majority of cadets have grown up with computers available at home, school or public libraries. In CAP a laptop is furnished to every Squadron., and surplus computers from various governmental agencies are available.
The Cadet Advisory Council from year to year tries to reinvent itself. This is due to not knowing what previous Councils have done. I obtained 15 laptops for the CAC. One for each Group Chairperson and one for each of the Wing CAC officers that they would pass on to the new CAC Reps when their term ended. Last I heard those 15 laptops were stored in the Wing DCPs closet. But the point was, the computer has uses that CAP havn't considered as yet. The question is not are members computer literate, or how do we get rural area members onto the internet, but rather the bigger picture or how can computers affect day-to-day Squadron activities.
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Gil Robb Wilson # 19
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jimmydeanno
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« Reply #95 on: August 19, 2009, 01:05:13 PM »

As Major Carrales points out, Internet access should be available at most Squadron/Wing facilities, and virtually all Public Libraries.  I understand that there are lots of Rural and/or Less Fortunate families who will not have computers and Internet Access at home, but we need to find a solution to let those members use some other access to complete their tasks, NOT hold back the rest of the organization.

My local McDonald's, Pizza Parlour, Car Dealership, etc all have free wi-fi.  The library in my town (not city, town) has free wi-fi.  Sitting in the state operated park&ride I can pick up 5-8 free wi-fi signals (not someone's residence).

I don't have a single cadet in my unit that doesn't have an e-mail address registered with us, nor a senior.

The internet is all around us.
 
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If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law. - Winston Churchill
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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  The Lobby  |  Topic: Should we reclassify "senior members without grade" as "Airman"?
 


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