Live Free or Die

Flying Pig · August 06, 2009, 04:36:54 PM

http://www.northstarwriters.com/pi175.htm

The governor of NH as stated that the states motto of Live Free or Die presents an unfriendly atmosphere. So exactly what are we teaching our kids?

Major Carrales · August 06, 2009, 04:40:41 PM

Quote from: Flying Pig on August 06, 2009, 04:36:54 PM
http://www.northstarwriters.com/pi175.htm

The governor of NH as stated that the states motto of Live Free or Die presents an unfriendly atmosphere. So exactly what are we teaching our kids?

As an American there is no choice but to LIVE FREE of DIE. I truly enjoy my freedom as an American. What, do they want some "meaningless" tag line like we have seen so many times before (sorry Pylon, but meaningless tag lines, while a staple of your industry, are still MEANINGLESS).

I can see it now...
New Jersey, Naturally Nature's Natural Nature...Naturally!

Flying Pig · August 06, 2009, 04:44:01 PM

I think it is a sad commentary that we are catering to the feelings of youth vs teaching the history behind why we have mottos like that. And for educated people of a state to not see past the political correctness aspect is sad.

....the Live Free Or Die motto is prohibitive to what young people are looking for in their home community."

"Our State portrays an unfriendly message that every individual has to succeed on their own, rather than count on a support system for assistance (Live Free or Die is not a friendly, supporting message that appeals to young people)."

This part of the article was, to me, the sadest part. I would think its EXACTLY what young people are looking for. FREEDOM. It doesnt mean we are going to kill young people, it means we value individual freedom. Young people dont want that?

??

jimmydeanno · August 06, 2009, 05:27:31 PM

I'm not really sure the relevance to CAP, but as a NH resident, I can assure you that the majority of us NH residents believe in this message. What happens though, is we get a bunch of border crosses from our friendly neighbors to the south and they wonder what happened to all their services.

NH has the largest state legislature in the US and the fourth largest in the world. Why? Because the people of NH think that new laws shouldn't be pushed through by a select few people. The large number of representatives (who make a whopping $250.00 / year) argue, debate and fight amongst themselves against stupid laws, etc.

Recently though, our governor has started to raise taxes to provide more services. Unfortunately, the rationale behind it is usually, "Well it's still cheaper than living in Mass." - hinting that we have the lowest tax burden in the US.

NH has a lot going for it, like the lowest teen pregnancy rate, lowest crime rate, lowest tax burden, no sales tax, no income tax, etc, etc.

There has been some recent debate about how we're letting our motto slip through the cracks and not educating people on what it actually means. There's a new non-profit that has adopted the mission, it's called "The Live Free or Die Alliance."

http://www.unionleader.com/article.aspx?articleId=bd6ec5cd-d63b-459e-927d-66aa3a7de85f&headline=What+does+'Live+Free+or+Die'+stand+for%3F

The cause isn't lost here, we still have our motto, other states don't.

Pylon · August 06, 2009, 06:11:06 PM

Quote from: Major Carrales on August 06, 2009, 04:40:41 PM
As an American there is no choice but to LIVE FREE of DIE. I truly enjoy my freedom as an American. What, do they want some "meaningless" tag line like we have seen so many times before (sorry Pylon, but meaningless tag lines, while a staple of your industry, are still MEANINGLESS).

Thanks for the dig there Sparky, but despite what you or others might think, meaningless taglines are what colleagues in my field try to prevent.

Major Carrales · August 06, 2009, 06:37:09 PM

Quote from: Pylon on August 06, 2009, 06:11:06 PM
Quote from: Major Carrales on August 06, 2009, 04:40:41 PM
As an American there is no choice but to LIVE FREE of DIE. I truly enjoy my freedom as an American. What, do they want some "meaningless" tag line like we have seen so many times before (sorry Pylon, but meaningless tag lines, while a staple of your industry, are still MEANINGLESS).

Thanks for the dig there Sparky, but despite what you or others might think, meaningless tag lines are what colleagues in my field try to prevent.

Good, because I have seen some really senseless ones that really say nothing. The dig, by the way, was in response to a past debate we were having some months ago, or longer. Debates don't end, my friend, because someone locks the topic.

In any case, the "re-branding" of New Jersey is likely the work of people in your field. My you be a sparkling beacon of substance in a sea of banality and hucksterism.

wuzafuzz · August 06, 2009, 08:25:48 PM

Apparently the Governor would prefer "Live for free~~, or die~~."

It's too bad the historical context of the motto is lost on so many. I do wonder how many of those "offended" by the motto were offered the opportunity to learn about it during their school years. Or was the motto too scary for school aged kids?

If I were a young person in NH I would be offended, not by the state's motto, but the Governor's assumption about young folks. Playing to stereotypes of what "young people" want from society is no less prejudiced than assuming cops are racist or that people of certain backgrounds are always criminals. Funny though, when those stereotypes are used to rationalize "social justice," the offender gets a free-pass.

ZigZag911 · August 06, 2009, 09:52:57 PM

Sparky -- NJ is the "Garden State".

To quote our most infamous fictional resident, Tony Soprano:
"Hey, stoonad! You gotta problem wid dat?!?"

SarDragon · August 06, 2009, 11:15:47 PM

Since we are talking about NJ, don't forget that it still has the highest number of unresolved EPA Superfund sites in the country.

Now back to NH.

Major Carrales · August 07, 2009, 01:16:04 AM

Quote from: ZigZag911 on August 06, 2009, 09:52:57 PM
Sparky -- NJ is the "Garden State".

To quote our most infamous fictional resident, Tony Soprano:
"Hey, stoonad! You gotta problem wid dat?!?"

Yes, that is why I posted the...
"New Jersey, Naturally Nature's Natural Nature...Naturally!"

Major Lord · August 07, 2009, 01:36:17 AM

How about " Live free, or....not" ? I like the tone of the original somewhat better, but what does it really mean? That I should let myself die if I can't live free? Or that I should die in the pursuit of my freedom,?(which frankly, is not a classic win-win situation) It would make much more sense to say "live free, or kill anyone who stands in the way of your freedom", but I think your politically correct politician would vapor lock if thats what you suggest as an alternative.

Major Lord

ps Is it true that they call NJ the "Garden State" because "toxic waste dump" is a registered trademark?

Flying Pig · August 07, 2009, 01:59:33 AM

Quote from: Major Lord on August 07, 2009, 01:36:17 AM
How about " Live free, or....not" ? I like the tone of the original somewhat better, but what does it really mean? That I should let myself die if I can't live free? Or that I should die in the pursuit of my freedom,?(which frankly, is not a classic win-win situation) It would make much more sense to say "live free, or kill anyone who stands in the way of your freedom", but I think your politically correct politician would vapor lock if thats what you suggest as an alternative.

Major Lord

ps Is it true that they call NJ the "Garden State" because "toxic waste dump" is a registered trademark?

Can I be your campaign manager?

Spike · August 07, 2009, 02:43:07 AM

This is called re-writing-history!

ZigZag911 · August 07, 2009, 03:14:57 AM

It is a shame, to turn to the actual topic of the thread, to see yet another part of the nation's proud heritage about to be excised in the name of political correctness.

Cecil DP · August 07, 2009, 07:11:49 AM

Maybe the Governor should move to a different area if he doesn't like the motto. I suggest Pitcairn Island

jimmydeanno · August 07, 2009, 12:06:57 PM

Since the motto is an excerpt for the original quote, you need to take it in that context.

"Live Free or Die, death is not the worst of evils."

It doesn't mean kill anyone who stands in your way. It means that the American people need to retain their independent spirit, that same spirit that founded our nation. The worst evil that he was speaking of was tyranny, mostly in the form of government.

Many have likened it to Patrick Henry's quote, "Give me liberty, or give me death."

Does that mean that he'd rather die than live under tyranny? Probably, but it also means that should his quest for that liberty result in death, his life is not wasted.

JohnKachenmeister · August 07, 2009, 02:06:06 PM

Personally, I like "Live free or die," but ONLY if you take a few tyrants with you on the way out.

It's like my eternal anger, expressed every Memorial Day, about people who give speeches about those who "Gave their lives for their country..."

I've never known anyone who "Gave" his life. I've known a lot of people who lost their lives because somebody took their lives, though. They didn't "Give," and they fought hard to "Keep."

Major Lord · August 07, 2009, 02:42:36 PM

Kach,

Roger that! Here to referesh our memory is the closing paragraph of Patrick Henry's words on th esubject:

It is in vain, sir, to extenuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace-- but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!

Clearly Patrick meant to get off your butt and join the people in the field who are already fighting tyranny, not in some metaphorical way (Hey kids, lets put on a play to raise awareness!) but to pull out old Besty and open up a can of good old fashioned whoopazz on those who would try to limit our freedoms. It was a 2% tax on our favorite breakfast drink that set off the Boston Tea party, so Americans then clearly had a more sensitive trigger about tyranny, but they were right to take action when they could, before the chains of tryanny became too tight for the people to wiggle out of. The open exchange of hostilities did not really take place until the British tried to implement "common sense gun control measures" in the Colonies. ( a Policy which to this day, makes Washington DC the paradise of the Continent....)

I can see why leftists don't like guys like Patrick Henry, and talk about liberty and death. As for me, I am with George Patton; Let the other SOB give his life for his country!

Major Lord

ol'fido · August 07, 2009, 02:50:54 PM

In 1956, the President of France, Charles DeGaulle summoned the U.S. ambassador, James Gavin(WWII commander of the 82nd Airborne) and informed him that all U.S. troops must leave France. France could handle her own defense. Gen. Gavin said in reply, "Does that include our dead, sir?"

NEBoom · August 07, 2009, 08:26:04 PM

I first saw "Live Free or Die" on a NH plate when I was in the service (mid '80's). I think it's an awesome motto.

My take on it was a bit different, not knowing the context. I read it to mean: Take full advantage of your freedoms, for failure to do so would lead you to the figurative death of a life without them.

...Or something like that...

Anyway, I'd much rather NH keep the motto. I've always liked simple but thought-provoking things like this. Kind of like, "Lead, follow, or get out of the way."