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March 24, 2019, 01:15:47 PM
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CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  Safety  |  Topic: USE OF EMT's
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Seasoned Member

Posts: 255
Unit: SWR-LA-010

Louisiana Wing Website
« Reply #40 on: July 21, 2009, 10:19:47 PM »

Well this is off topic but what they heck......we dont use most of the ICS/NIMS system. We have one thing in CAP we certify under LG and that CUL.  CAP's use or lack of use of ICS/NIMS is another topic so I wont drag this too far, except to say read most SAR EVAL reports and you will find its mission (incident) management we fail at the most.

FYI: I snipped a rather large quoted block above, read the earlier posts if this doesn't make sense to anyone...

John, when I composed my post to which you responded, I originally wrote a rather lengthy bit about how CAP is among the Worst organizations in terms of adopting ICS/NIMS.  I edited it out to keep the thread on track.  And, because that horse is on life support.

But, I believe you are entirely correct.  CAP has not yet truly changed its model to one compliant with ICS/NIMS.  I am sure that this will happen, probably slowly and painfully over the course of a few more years.  And, I believe that truly integrating ICS/NIMS, with all of its wonderful useless overhead, will help prevent us from making some egregious errors in Incident Management.  Structure has a way of keeping you on track, just like in-flight checklists.

But, in the meantime, we can at least 'translate' our CAP language to ICS speak when dealing with other agencies in larger response situations.  And, we can ask for their resources using a language they understand.

Thom Hamilton
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Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 665

« Reply #41 on: July 21, 2009, 11:17:06 PM »

What is the best way to tell a formerly cerified EMT (in another state) that unless you certify in our state, you can only do Standard first aid (if your certified).  They are constantly carring around there EMT Bag.  What is considered to be the basic first aid level (differences)

How blatant is the bag?

Verify his credentials with the previous state. When I was doing volley EMS I met more than one umm individual who had would show off his portable Operating Suite in the trunk of his $300 dollar car before that person had certified in Basic Life Support.

I've also met more than one person on accident scenes  who claimed to be an ER nurse and when a credential check was done turned out to be a CNA at the local nursing home.

Stolen Valor isn't just for the military.
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Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,657

« Reply #42 on: July 21, 2009, 11:35:05 PM »

This has nothing to do with proper implementation of ICS. This is about what CAP, as an organization, and with direction from its big brother service, has decided to make its mission.

We don't put out fires, we don't enforce the law, and we don't provide first response medical care.  In fact, despite the fact that many states and agencies have us listed as such, we are not a first response agency at all, except within the narrow bounds of ELT's.

In everything else we do...everything...we are the second or third call people make, not the first.
There is no golden hour in CAP.

There are any number of organizations which do the above who would be happy to have additional help, assuming you're qualified to provide it.

You will lose access to some of the unique opportunities afforded by CAP, and be presented with others.

There is no agency in this country which is all things to all people, and few that offer as diverse a list of opportunities as CAP. 

Embrace that and flourish. Or don't, your call, but accept the reality of the situation.

As to the original question - inform the member of the situation, and his limitations within it.  If he chooses to continue to carry stomach staples, and DNA extraction kits, that's his call - just make sure no one lets him actually use them in a CAP uniform.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2009, 11:41:12 PM by Eclipse » Report to moderator   Logged

Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 3,017
Unit: NW-IN

« Reply #43 on: July 22, 2009, 10:18:55 AM »

I took the ARC course with you and you did teach us to use epi pens. But when I got to RST for GLRSE, Eclipse told us that if we were to stick someone with an epi pen we were violating IL law.
I honestly don't recall that conversation.

Probably because it was such a minor thing for you since you're from Illinois. It really struck my wife and I because it's a rather stupid law and counter to what were where used to back home. The solution was to put the pen in their hand and "help" ;) them to stick themselves.
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Former CAP Captain
David Sinn
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Posts: 4,349

« Reply #44 on: July 22, 2009, 01:25:42 PM »

As an EMT-B in CO, I have the same restriction. The USDOT sets allowable practices for each level, but individual states can limit those practices - however, they cannot add to them. Additionally, individual systems can further restrict what is allowed. 
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Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,311

John's web site
« Reply #45 on: July 22, 2009, 03:07:22 PM »

That's not entirley correct. 

The state of Iowa uses the EMT-I (99) curriculum and test, but expands their scope of practice.  they like to call them paramedics too.

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CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  Safety  |  Topic: USE OF EMT's

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