CAP related Items: Coins, Plaque etc

[RedFox24]

Well I didn't know where to put this, so it goes here and hope it is right.

I am slow on a few things but recently got my eyes opened to what CAP is doing as far as shutting down some vendors of CAP related items.  Specifically when I went to order Challenge Coins and awards for our encampment from our usual vendor I got a note that said that CAP had shut them down and they couldn't produce any CAP related items now.  Asked me to let my  CAP leaders know how I felt about it. 

I have let my CAP leaders know how I feel about so much lately that I don't think they listen (ok I know they don't ) .........anyway besides the point.

After checking other vendors mentioned to me by CAP Talkers and CAP members, I find that this is a trend..............CAP related items.  A coin, plaque, a special award.......... 

What gives?  Is NHQ that dumb? (ok don't answer that).  I did find a local vendor who will make us up something close, but not what we usually get or want, and they don't care about CAP C&D letters etc.  not that they ever have got one or will get one, Sgt Schultz on this one, I know nothing!  Local is better, but not the exact product we wanted. 

Whom is CAP trying to punish here?  Are they trying to run a racket?

I aint buying squat from VG. 

Ok, I know I am getting old and cranky with Maw HQ, but at some point CAP will shoot itself in the foot so many times it cant stand up...................

Just my .02 worth, venting to the choir, that's all.

[DC]

National gets a return on all the CAP items Vanguard sells, so they are very protective there. With custom items like challenge coins, patches and other things Vanguard does not produce or provide there should be some allowances made. Seriously.

[JC004]

I agree completely.  Vanguard fails to be the...well...vanguard.  This is especially ridiculous for the things they do not offer. 

[NC Hokie]

National gets a return on all the CAP items Vanguard sells, so they are very protective there. With custom items like challenge coins, patches and other things Vanguard does not produce or provide there should be some allowances made. Seriously.

To be fair, Vanguard DOES sell CAP challenge coins, although they are 1) old and 2) not really suitable for local use.

Another argument that I've seen made is that NHQ's C&D letters are intended to protect the CAP "brand" by ensuring that all CAP merchandise is approved by them.  Unfortunately, NHQ seems to be the one diluting the brand by producing logos, slogans, and catch-phrases like they were going out of style.

[A.Member]

Some of these "enforcement" decisions by National's legal eagles are idiotic at best.   

If the organization were consistent in it's implementation and enforcement of "the brand" and had suppliers that effectively met our needs, that'd be one thing but that's not the case. 

Rather than shutting some of these suppliers down, especially quality ones such as Northwest Territorial Mint (who offered a unique and very attractively priced product not available elsewhere), they would be better served (not to mention better serve the membership) by offering license and partnership.  I don't know for certain that such an offer didn't occur but based on discussions I've had with others and what little I have gleaned about the situation, I'm confident this did not happen.   At the very least, if they were smart, they would have a replacement supplier lined up to produce some of the quality products before shutting someone down.

Legal needs to pull it's head out of the sand on this issue.  Are they doing the membership a service or disservice with their approach?  It's silly.

[Eclipse]

NWT isn't "shut down" - they are still the preferred coin supplier to NHQ.

The problem with NWT is that their setup coast is more than a whole coin run from other sources.

[DC]

NWT isn't "shut down" - they are still the preferred coin supplier to NHQ.

The problem with NWT is that their setup coast is more than a whole coin run from other sources.

Then why did the whole line of CAP coins they used to have available on their website disappear?

[Eclipse]

NWT isn't "shut down" - they are still the preferred coin supplier to NHQ.

The problem with NWT is that their setup coast is more than a whole coin run from other sources.

Then why did the whole line of CAP coins they used to have available on their website disappear?

No idea - maybe VG didn't want them sold direct?  Maybe its because they haven't made anything "new" for a long time?  It doesn't mean they were disavowed.

They're still featured here: http://custom.nwtmint.com/landing_MSC.php though you're right there's no CAP coins anymore on their retail site.

[A.Member]

NWT isn't "shut down" - they are still the preferred coin supplier to NHQ.

The problem with NWT is that their setup coast is more than a whole coin run from other sources.

Wrong on both accounts. 

I ordered these beautiful merlin gold coins for our squadron award recipents last fall:


They were custom engraved with the year and award name on the back.  These came shipped in a protective case at $15 per coin.   No minimum order.   That's right, $15 (engraved and shipped)! 

I contacted NWTM directly and was told they are no longer available as they do not have a license to produce them.  The rep told me directly that they'd love to have CAP's business but that CAP stated they have another vendor.   In addtion, they were directed to destroy all copies, which evidently they did. 

Aside from ordering a new batch for our awards presentation, we were looking to get these engraved with our squadron name and a number on back as a general squadron coin: 


These ran just under $10 per coin.  It's a shame.  I know of no other source that can produce a semi-custom coin of this quality for anywhere near that price and with no minimum order. 

[Eclipse]

Sorry, those aren't custom coins, those are just standard-run coins you had engraved.  I'll be disappointed as well if they turn out to be discontinued as we use something similar as encampment honor awards.

A custom coin is one you have minted yourself with your unit or activity logo, etc.  Last time I checked with NWT they wanted about $400 just for the setup, and the coins themselves were about $8-10 each.
That's about $1000 for a 50-coin run, way over the line for most CAP units and activities.

Pace's ES coin was done by them, I believe, and had a price in that range.  A beautiful coin, but I can get coins from other sources for under $200 shipped in quantities of 50 and no setup charge.

NWT does what they refer to as a "museum quality" finish, which is real pretty when you get it, but doesn't hold up if you carry it in your pocket.  Their regular coins are comparable to my source in terms of finish, though in most cases a unit would not be sculpting the detail featured in some of their presentation pieces.

If your image has the detail, my source does an great job using high-pressure water lathes (vs. pressing).

[A.Member]

Sorry, those aren't custom coins, those are just standard-run coins you had engraved.  I'll be disappointed as well if they turn out to be discontinued as we use something similar as encampment honor awards.

Didn't say the coin was custom - I said the engraving was.  They are semi-custom, as I stated.

Granted, NWT does "museum quality" coins, but I can get coins from other sources for under $200 shipped in quantities of 50 and no setup charge.

Then do share, please.   We've shopped it and can't come close.  We're looking at some other alternatives but no luck so far.

[Eclipse]

Sorry, those aren't custom coins, those are just standard-run coins you had engraved.  I'll be disappointed as well if they turn out to be discontinued as we use something similar as encampment honor awards.

Didn't say the coin was custom - I said the engraving was.  They are semi-custom, as I stated.

Granted, NWT does "museum quality" coins, but I can get coins from other sources for under $200 shipped in quantities of 50 and no setup charge.

Then do share.   We've shopped it and can't come close.  We're looking at some other alternatives but no luck so far.

You said I was wrong on both counts which I clearly am not.  I'll take your word for it on the license issue.  If NHQ found another vendor, so be it - that's not the same as C&D'ing alternatives.

[Eclipse]

Granted, NWT does "museum quality" coins, but I can get coins from other sources for under $200 shipped in quantities of 50 and no setup charge.

Then do share, please.   We've shopped it and can't come close.  We're looking at some other alternatives but no luck so far.

http://incirlikcoin.com/home.php

$195 shipped in lots of 50, shipped.  No setup charge.  Turn around time after you finalize the image is about 30 days including shipping.

[A.Member]

You said I was wrong on both counts which I clearly am not.

On which account do you think you're right?

I'll take your word for it on the license issue.

I'm merely repeating what the NWTM rep told me.  They seemed pretty disappointed in not being able to be a/the vendor.

If NHQ found another vendor, so be it - that's not the same as C&D'ing alternatives.

Do a search, can you find another vendor offering a similar product.  I cannot...and we've looked.  I'm willing to proven wrong.

[A.Member]

http://incirlikcoin.com/home.php

$195 shipped in lots of 50, shipped.  No setup charge.  Turn around time after you finalize the image is about 30 days including shipping.

Thank you.  I will check them out!  We were looking for an offshore vendor.  If the price and quality is on par with NWTM, then I owe you an apology...or at least a virtual beer.

[Eclipse]

You said I was wrong on both counts which I clearly am not.

On which account do you think you're right?

That its $400 setup for a custom coin.  You're just engraving a production coin.

Not that's its really worth arguing about.

Obviously there's nothing "comparable" if NHQ isn't licensing them anymore.

Just mint your own, they mean more that way anyway.

[Eclipse]

http://incirlikcoin.com/home.php

$195 shipped in lots of 50, shipped.  No setup charge.  Turn around time after you finalize the image is about 30 days including shipping.

Thank you.  I will check them out!  We were looking for an offshore vendor.  If the price and quality is on par with NWTM, then I owe you an apology...or at least a virtual beer.

I believe Turkey is still offshore.   

[A.Member]

I believe Turkey is still offshore.   

Agreed (I saw that   ).   Have you personally used that vendor?

[Eclipse]

I believe Turkey is still offshore.   

Agreed (I saw that   ).   Have you personally used that vendor?

Yes - I have run in excess of 1000 coins across at least 7 or 8 different designs through him and ordered 200 earlier this year.  At least as of about April or May my bud Ugar was still cranking them out good as ever.

By sheer coincidence I am literally designing one for one of my CC's as this is written.

[alamrcn]

Bet ya the Nat/CC's coin was NOT made by Vanguard!