Uniform Items not available for Purchase

CAPSGT · June 25, 2009, 12:56:47 PM

The Ira C. Eaker award medal got me thinking. How many uniform items are out there that are authorized, but aren't out there for purchase? Off the top of my head, I can think of:

1) Eaker Mini-Medal
2) Color Guard Mini-Medal
3) Cloth Incident Commander badges

I'm sure there are others out there.

The last time I tried to inquire about this, I called the Vanguard liason at NHQ, who told me to call Vanguard. When I called Vanguard, they told me they wouldn't produce anything unless NHQ told them to. I got fed up and gave up trying to get the insignia. Unfortunately, I haven't seen the Hock Shop produce any of these either.

AlphaSigOU · June 25, 2009, 01:04:04 PM

Catch-22.

Nolan Teel · June 25, 2009, 01:33:03 PM

Im just sick and tired of all the uniform changes.... but hey I have an unlimited supply of money so National can keep changing uniforms all they want.....

SaBeR33 · June 25, 2009, 01:38:08 PM

Quote from: CAPSGT on June 25, 2009, 12:56:47 PMHow many uniform items are out there that are authorized, but aren't out there for purchase? Off the top of my head, I can think of:

3) Cloth Incident Commander badge

The Hock Shop carries the cloth incident commander's badges through Group commander, but not the metal ones. Is that what you were thinking of?

LtCol Hooligan · June 25, 2009, 01:46:06 PM

Group commander is not associated with the IC badges, but holly cow- they are there!! I guess I will be paying 75 cents- plus shipping and handleing!!

CAPSGT · June 25, 2009, 01:49:03 PM

heh, I'm going to venture to buy one, though I've never been a fan of cloth items from them. Broken far too many sewing needles on that rigid backing they use.

notaNCO forever · June 25, 2009, 02:44:18 PM

Quote from: CAPSGT on June 25, 2009, 01:49:03 PM
heh, I'm going to venture to buy one, though I've never been a fan of cloth items from them. Broken far too many sewing needles on that rigid backing they use.

The last cloth grade I got from them was actually regular cloth and not the more rigid stuff they usually use. I know the ones they used to have you almost needed to pre-drill holes for the needle.

SaBeR33 · June 25, 2009, 03:07:06 PM

Quote from: LtCol Hooligan on June 25, 2009, 01:46:06 PM
Group commander is not associated with the IC badges, but holly cow- they are there!! I guess I will be paying 75 cents- plus shipping and handleing!!

Sorry about that. I was thinking of something else at the time I wrote it and ended up writing about two entirely different things.

Larry Mangum · June 25, 2009, 04:27:52 PM

I wonder what will happen with the IC badge when they go to 5 levels of IC's as proposed?

Quote

Old Achievement Additional Tasks Required New Achievement Approving Authority
IC1 IC2 Region Commander
IC2 IC3 Wing Commander
IC3 IC4 Wing Commander
IC4 IC5 Automatic
CUL CUL Automatic
GTL GTM1 GTL3 Wing DOS
GTL GTM2 GTL4 Wing DOS
UDF GTL5 Wing DOS
GTM1 GTM3 Wing DOS
GTM2 GTM4 Wing DOS
GTM3 GTM4 Wing DOS
UDF GTM5 Wing DOS

SilverEagle2 · June 25, 2009, 04:45:53 PM

There are several ribbons with medals authorized that are not made.

NCSA
CAC
Cadet Orientation Pilot
National Color Guard Competition
Counter Drug
Community Service

Since these can be worn by seniors they should have medals. They however have not been made (or proposed) as far as I can tell.

Need to fix that.

However one can make the argument that all cadet achievement ribbons have the potential of being worn by senior members and should be made. However, I feel that it should, as it is, be limited to the officer achievements.

N Harmon · June 25, 2009, 04:47:38 PM

Quote from: Who_knows? on June 25, 2009, 04:27:52 PM
I wonder what will happen with the IC badge when they go to 5 levels of IC's as proposed?

Woah, when did this happen or going to happen?

Larry Mangum · June 25, 2009, 04:51:45 PM

In a version of CAPR 60-3 if approved by the National Board, that should be the next realse after the one currently in the pipeline for approval.

SJFedor · June 25, 2009, 04:55:07 PM

Quote from: Who_knows? on June 25, 2009, 04:51:45 PM
In a version of CAPR 60-3 if approved by the National Board, that should be the next realse after the one currently in the pipeline for approval.

I'm gonna hafta come hunt you down at NESA next week and pick your brain for a little...

davidsinn · June 25, 2009, 05:28:21 PM

Quote from: Who_knows? on June 25, 2009, 04:27:52 PM
I wonder what will happen with the IC badge when they go to 5 levels of IC's as proposed?

Quote

Old Achievement Additional Tasks Required New Achievement Approving Authority
IC1 IC2 Region Commander
IC2 IC3 Wing Commander
IC3 IC4 Wing Commander
IC4 IC5 Automatic
CUL CUL Automatic
GTL GTM1 GTL3 Wing DOS
GTL GTM2 GTL4 Wing DOS
UDF GTL5 Wing DOS
GTM1 GTM3 Wing DOS
GTM2 GTM4 Wing DOS
GTM3 GTM4 Wing DOS
UDF GTM5 Wing DOS

I'm confused. Where's GTM 2 and 1 and GTL 2 and 1?

Hawk200 · June 25, 2009, 05:44:57 PM

Quote from: davidsinn on June 25, 2009, 05:28:21 PMI'm confused. Where's GTM 2 and 1 and GTL 2 and 1?

I am too. Wonder why there's new stuff like this. We gotta get things together with what we have right now.

Hawk200 · June 25, 2009, 05:52:32 PM

Quote from: SilverEagle2 on June 25, 2009, 04:45:53 PMSince these can be worn by seniors they should have medals.

Why should we have medals for each and every ribbon? A CAP member can end up with just about everything if they stay long enough.

Those things are almost seven bucks a pop, that can add up real quick. And a few seniors I've seen in mess dress look almost silly with the pure volume of what they're wearing.

There's also the principle of what constitutes "medal worthy". A lot of things CAP has don't qualify.

jimmydeanno · June 25, 2009, 06:01:53 PM

^
RE: Medal Worthy...

I guess that would depend on what your comparing to, now wouldn't it? If you compare CAP medals to Air Force accomplishments that rate medals, then we shouldn't wear any, but if you compare them to CAP accomplishments, why not?

Also, if you don't want to wear one that is a medal because you don't think it's worthy of being one, then don't. It would be kind of dumb to even have mini-medals if there were only 3 you could earn total...

Hawk200 · June 25, 2009, 06:18:18 PM

Quote from: jimmydeanno on June 25, 2009, 06:01:53 PM
^
RE: Medal Worthy...

I guess that would depend on what your comparing to, now wouldn't it? If you compare CAP medals to Air Force accomplishments that rate medals, then we shouldn't wear any, but if you compare them to CAP accomplishments, why not?

Also, if you don't want to wear one that is a medal because you don't think it's worthy of being one, then don't. It would be kind of dumb to even have mini-medals if there were only 3 you could earn total...

Putting the Air Force aspect aside, you don't think that making everything a medal cheapens them all?

"You got this ribbon, and it's a medal too!".

"And here's another ribbon, it's also a medal!"

"You got this ribbon for doing what you're supposed to, and it's a medal!"

"Here's another ribbon, and another medal!"

See what I'm saying? We could stand to make actual medals distinctive. Thinking practically, mirroring the military and going for achievement and service type medals would be a good start. Then there's the aspect of the member isn't spending another seven bucks for each award they get. There could easily be a dozen or so that mean something. The rest are just filler.

It's not always about being just like the Air Force, it's about looking at things practically. If you've got to have that mass of medals, then I guess that's your thing. But making a medal for everything costs the members, and doing it because you can is wasteful.

I do find a good bit of humor in the comparison to Air Force decs though. A lot of CAP members feel they deserve everything they get (not saying they don't), but I show up with military decs on, and people say I'm showing off, or I'm being ostentatious. I find the discontinuity amusing.

RiverAux · June 25, 2009, 06:21:28 PM

Most members have voted with their wallet. My estimation is that about 5% or less of members in my Wing even have a uniform upon which you could put a medal. Frankly, we should just consider dropping them entirely.

Hawk200 · June 25, 2009, 06:25:36 PM

Quote from: RiverAux on June 25, 2009, 06:21:28 PM
Most members have voted with their wallet. My estimation is that about 5% or less of members in my Wing even have a uniform upon which you could put a medal. Frankly, we should just consider dropping them entirely.

There is that aspect as well. I wouldn't say drop them completely if we have the kinds of uniforms that it is appropriate to wear them on. It's a strong argument for reducing them though.

I think it's fairly safe to say that the folks that want to keep them probably also have a mess dress, and spent the money on all the various medals they are authorized. Nobody likes to have anything they they own become unusable.