CAPM 39-1

heliodoc · March 23, 2009, 02:51:02 PM

^^^^^

Is that suprising?

?

davedove · March 23, 2009, 03:36:09 PM

Quote from: MIKE on March 23, 2009, 02:48:34 PM
Which technically are all expired and invalid.

Yeah, but we all know how long that argument would last.

JoeTomasone · March 23, 2009, 03:53:30 PM

Quote from: davedove on March 23, 2009, 02:31:52 PM
I think the biggest problem right now with the 39-1, especially for new members, is the whole batch of ICL's we have for the manual.

Right now, if a person wants information on a uniform he looks it up in the 39-1. But wait, that item has been changed by ICL X, which was updated by ICL Y, which was modified by ICL Z, etc.

Even without changing any of the uniforms, there is a whole lot that could be done to just get it all put together in one place.

I disagree. I see members all the time who don't stow their BDU hat or flight cap as per 39-1 and when asked usually say, "I didn't know that was in there". I've seen members with nameplates that had the name of their Squadron on them.... Etc, etc, etc.

cnitas · March 23, 2009, 04:29:45 PM

Quote from: JoeTomasone on March 23, 2009, 03:53:30 PM
Quote from: davedove on March 23, 2009, 02:31:52 PM
I think the biggest problem right now with the 39-1, especially for new members, is the whole batch of ICL's we have for the manual.

Right now, if a person wants information on a uniform he looks it up in the 39-1. But wait, that item has been changed by ICL X, which was updated by ICL Y, which was modified by ICL Z, etc.

Even without changing any of the uniforms, there is a whole lot that could be done to just get it all put together in one place.

I disagree. I see members all the time who don't stow their BDU hat or flight cap as per 39-1 and when asked usually say, "I didn't know that was in there". I've seen members with nameplates that had the name of their Squadron on them.... Etc, etc, etc.

Me too. I think we should scrap the 29-1 and configure our uniforms based on a never ending ICL chain, squadron custom, and whatever the KB says.

davedove · March 23, 2009, 04:43:34 PM

Quote from: JoeTomasone on March 23, 2009, 03:53:30 PM
Quote from: davedove on March 23, 2009, 02:31:52 PM
I think the biggest problem right now with the 39-1, especially for new members, is the whole batch of ICL's we have for the manual.

Right now, if a person wants information on a uniform he looks it up in the 39-1. But wait, that item has been changed by ICL X, which was updated by ICL Y, which was modified by ICL Z, etc.

Even without changing any of the uniforms, there is a whole lot that could be done to just get it all put together in one place.

I disagree. I see members all the time who don't stow their BDU hat or flight cap as per 39-1 and when asked usually say, "I didn't know that was in there". I've seen members with nameplates that had the name of their Squadron on them.... Etc, etc, etc.

I don't see how that disagrees with my point. I think we all agree that the reg could be enforced better, but how does having it spread across several changes make that easier?

At least if it was all consolidated, all the information would be in one place. The next step would be to better clarify and explain things in the reg. Then, finally, we might be in a place to make some of the potential changes that have been discussed so much here.

JoeTomasone · March 23, 2009, 04:51:34 PM

Quote from: davedove on March 23, 2009, 04:43:34 PMI don't see how that disagrees with my point. I think we all agree that the reg could be enforced better, but how does having it spread across several changes make that easier?

It doesn't; my point is that a significant amount of people don't even read 39-1. n The biggest problem is not the ICLs but the fact that so few read the basic manual. I.E. if and when 39-1 is revised to include the ICLs, it still won't matter because of how few people read/understand/practice 39-1 itself.

Rob Sherlin · March 23, 2009, 06:48:04 PM

I think a bunch of CAP members (probably from CAPtalk, since they know the issues) should just get together, gather the input, and "Git er' done!" and submit it for approval. This is rediculous!!! CAP can't even put a decent uniform manual together?...That's what it comes down to! If AF command were to read some of these posts, we might find a lot of things taken away fron CAP because such a simple issue as a uniform manual is not being solved (worse yet, was attempted and still hasn't gotten anywhere).
Any volunteers?

arajca · March 23, 2009, 07:31:41 PM

I'm willing to help. Perhaps whoever takes the lead should set up an invitation-only Yahoo or Google group for this project. That will keep the flames to a minimum. Also, it easily allows for the storage of the works in progress.

Rob Sherlin · March 23, 2009, 07:52:27 PM

I agree!...All we need to do is get a team together for it...and make it happen. I prefer people who have been around a while, but if they're not going to take initiative, ...those of who will...WILL!

Rob Sherlin · March 23, 2009, 08:13:53 PM

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAP-39-1-revise/

arajca · March 23, 2009, 08:22:38 PM

Suggestion for Rule of Engagement:
1. No policy changes - regardless of opinion on uiform policy.
2. No adding to uniforms.
3. Simple language.
4. Only volunteer for what you can do.
5. Complete what you sign on for.
6. Everything must be backed up by current CAPM 39-1, ICL, or published NB/NEC decision.

swamprat86 · March 23, 2009, 08:26:08 PM

Agreed.

Rob Sherlin · March 23, 2009, 08:29:33 PM

Ok! Let's see what we can do..........The council will be closed at (what do you say....10 members?)......we can get all the feedback and thoughts from CAPtalk and regulations.

BuckeyeDEJ · March 24, 2009, 01:05:57 AM

Looks good to me. Very interested.

Rob Sherlin · March 24, 2009, 12:39:16 PM

I don't know how many of you have seen the graphics of the CSU posted by Captain Corway. I thought they looked pretty good and were easy to understand. For those who know what I'm talking about, do you think graphics of the various uniforms with guidelines such as these, would do better justice than actual photos for 39-1?

caprr275 · March 24, 2009, 06:00:48 PM

I sent a copy of the CAPM 39-1 that I wrote to NHQ a few weeks ago. It was just a update with all of the pollicy letters. If anyone would like to see a copy just let me know

Rob Sherlin · March 25, 2009, 11:29:23 PM

There are three more positions open for the team that's being put together to see what we can do with CAPM 39-1. We are not looking to change uniform policies, or any of the rules on wearing the uniforms, we're just looking to revise the manual, to omit things that have been omitted, clarify things that seem to be confusing, and present it in such a way (in one manual) that everyone can understand, whether they be new, or "seasoned".
I want to keep this to ten people right now, because I don't want this to become a forum on 39-1 (that's what CAPtalk is for), I want this to be a seperate place for people who are serious about getting a submission for 39-1 done, rather than just talking about it. But, to let everyone know, there are three more positions open for those who have the inspiration, initiative, and dedication to be involved.

Hawk200 · March 26, 2009, 05:22:16 AM

Quote from: Rob Sherlin on March 25, 2009, 11:29:23 PM
There are three more positions open for the team that's being put together to see what we can do with CAPM 39-1. We are not looking to change uniform policies, or any of the rules on wearing the uniforms, we're just looking to revise the manual, to omit things that have been omitted, clarify things that seem to be confusing, and present it in such a way (in one manual) that everyone can understand, whether they be new, or "seasoned".
I want to keep this to ten people right now, because I don't want this to become a forum on 39-1 (that's what CAPtalk is for), I want this to be a seperate place for people who are serious about getting a submission for 39-1 done, rather than just talking about it. But, to let everyone know, there are three more positions open for those who have the inspiration, initiative, and dedication to be involved.

I would be interested in perusing the final draft for grammatical items, and extent of clarification. I might also suggest items that are common with AFI 36-2903 be documented in the same manner.

I'm on nights over here, with only one day off a week, so I won't be able to immediately answer on everything. But I'd love to clean up 39-1.

stratoflyer · March 26, 2009, 05:55:28 AM

2 cents:

All new incoming seniors are already required to know about the uniform. All wing kings should ensure commanders are actually teaching uniform policy to new members. After, that is, squadrons have been inspected.

Any violation--go home. Simple.

Make a CAPM 39-1 test that they HAVE to take and PASS with a review with a commander.

Any takers?

notaNCO forever · March 26, 2009, 12:05:20 PM

Quote from: stratoflyer on March 26, 2009, 05:55:28 AM
2 cents:

All new incoming seniors are already required to know about the uniform. All wing kings should ensure commanders are actually teaching uniform policy to new members. After, that is, squadrons have been inspected.

Any violation--go home. Simple.

Make a CAPM 39-1 test that they HAVE to take and PASS with a review with a commander.

Any takers?

I don't think you need a test just a uniform inspection, and let the member know what they need to fix.