Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
November 17, 2018, 05:49:13 PM
Home Help Login Register
News:

CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  The Lobby  |  Topic: The CAP Culture
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 Print
Author Topic: The CAP Culture  (Read 14411 times)
Chappie
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,063

« Reply #40 on: March 10, 2009, 01:50:25 AM »

Quote
1/2 the people aren't wearing the golf shirt - certainly not exclusively.  Its an appropriate uniform for certain kinds of duty and is the same thing worn regulalry by similar services.
Oh, I know I've been to my share of functions where the golf shirt has been 50%+, and I think it is inarguable in saying that it isn't becoming more common.  A recent photo of a Wing-level PD class in my wing shows 15/20 members in attendence wearing the golf shirt (2 in the AF blues, 2 in aviatior shirts, and 1 in civilian clothes).   A review of photos of the same class in 2 previous years shows a definite and significant trend towards the golf shirt. 

The others services have similar shirts, but it is not a common uniform used on almost all occassions by many members. 

If we were all in military-style uniforms of some sort, a military sort of culture could be retained if the leaders worked at it and set the example. 

In a week from now, the PCR Chaplain Corps will conduct their Chaplain Corps Region Staff College at McChord AFB.  The only authorized uniforms for the school are the  basic USAF style uniform and the white aviator/gray slacks or shirt for the classroom sessions and the Full-service USAF style uniform and the Blazer Combo for the concluding luncheon.  Customs and courtesies will be used (in fact, part of the registration packet was the inclusion of the CAPP 151) and there will be an uniform inspection conducted on the first day of classes.  It's called "professionalism" and following the Core Value of excellence.
Logged
Disclaimer:  Not to be confused with the other user that goes by "Chappy"   :)
Slim
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 576

« Reply #41 on: March 10, 2009, 04:20:27 AM »

Quote
1/2 the people aren't wearing the golf shirt - certainly not exclusively.  Its an appropriate uniform for certain kinds of duty and is the same thing worn regulalry by similar services.
Oh, I know I've been to my share of functions where the golf shirt has been 50%+, and I think it is inarguable in saying that it isn't becoming more common.  A recent photo of a Wing-level PD class in my wing shows 15/20 members in attendence wearing the golf shirt (2 in the AF blues, 2 in aviatior shirts, and 1 in civilian clothes).   A review of photos of the same class in 2 previous years shows a definite and significant trend towards the golf shirt. 

The others services have similar shirts, but it is not a common uniform used on almost all occassions by many members. 

If we were all in military-style uniforms of some sort, a military sort of culture could be retained if the leaders worked at it and set the example. 

In a week from now, the PCR Chaplain Corps will conduct their Chaplain Corps Region Staff College at McChord AFB.  The only authorized uniforms for the school are the  basic USAF style uniform and the white aviator/gray slacks or shirt for the classroom sessions and the Full-service USAF style uniform and the Blazer Combo for the concluding luncheon.  Customs and courtesies will be used (in fact, part of the registration packet was the inclusion of the CAPP 151) and there will be an uniform inspection conducted on the first day of classes.  It's called "professionalism" and following the Core Value of excellence.

No CSU option?
Logged

Slim
flyguy06
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,195

« Reply #42 on: March 10, 2009, 09:09:23 AM »

In my original post, I mentioned a difference in the "militaryism" between the Army and the Air Force.  I believe I recently saw an article in the Air Force Times addressing this exact issue and discussing the lack of "militaryism" in today's Air Force.  There is much more familiarization between officers and Airmen in today's service and a lack of traditional customs and courtesies, specifically mentioning personnel being on first name basis, not wearing of hats, disregarding saluting, etc.  There is a blurring of the line between officers and enlisted.  There are few officer clubs noe, mostly "consolidated" clubs.  A little tough drinking and maintaining proper protocol at the same bar.  Enlisted technicians are better educated ever before and some of their jobs are as demanding as their commissioned brothers.  It's not just us, but we are a reflection of Big Blue.


IIIII dont know about that one. There is no difference in military customs and curteousies in either service. If there were than it would be reflected when AF personnnel come in contact withother service personnel. Actually we are living in a more joint environment. many Joint Task Forces are poppong up that have joint service organization. For that reason We, in the military have a standard. Yeah we joke abouitthe lax nature of the AF but thats is just a stereotype. Trust me, If an Air Force Full Bird walked into a room full of lower ranking AF people, theyare going to come to attention. AF enlisted airmen are going to salute AF officers no doubt in my mind about that.

I do not think there is a lzck of traditional customs and cuteousies in todays Air Force. I just went to a seminar wirth Air and Army Guardsmen and the Commander of Northcom ( an AF four star General) was there and you better believe there was military curteousies payed to him.

Yes, youare correct service wide not just the AF they have done away with O clubs, biut that was like ten years ago when they did that.

Bottom line though in AP, our regs state that we follow military ustoms and curteousies and we are not doing that.
Logged
flyguy06
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,195

« Reply #43 on: March 10, 2009, 09:12:30 AM »

It could very well be the unfamiliarity and awkwardness that people have with military customs and courtesies.  Even once commonly held traditions and protocols like calling everyone "Sir" or "Ma'am" until you were on a first name basis with them have gone to the wayside.

We have a very informal society today and bringing formality into it makes many people uncomfortable, especially if they weren't raised or haven't been exposed to it before.

I agree with this.  As a new Senior Member with no prior military experience, it feels very strange to salute.  For people like me, it really helps when other members set a good example.


I agree and thatis what we have to do. Set a good example. thats what leadership is all about. But what happens is we have members that were inthe military and they have the "been there, done that" mentality and they dont really "They dont want to do the whole saluting thing anymore. But we need to have pride in our CAP and show that pride by doing the right thing. I have read about ubits that actually have Senior Member formations, drill and  ceremonies even.
Logged
flyguy06
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,195

« Reply #44 on: March 10, 2009, 09:23:17 AM »

Quote
1/2 the people aren't wearing the golf shirt - certainly not exclusively.  Its an appropriate uniform for certain kinds of duty and is the same thing worn regulalry by similar services.
Oh, I know I've been to my share of functions where the golf shirt has been 50%+, and I think it is inarguable in saying that it isn't becoming more common.  A recent photo of a Wing-level PD class in my wing shows 15/20 members in attendence wearing the golf shirt (2 in the AF blues, 2 in aviatior shirts, and 1 in civilian clothes).   A review of photos of the same class in 2 previous years shows a definite and significant trend towards the golf shirt. 

The others services have similar shirts, but it is not a common uniform used on almost all occassions by many members. 

If we were all in military-style uniforms of some sort, a military sort of culture could be retained if the leaders worked at it and set the example. 

I agree. I dont even own that blue golf shirt and grey pants. In my 24 years in CAP, I have always worn a military unifom. And no I am not a "military wannabe" I dont need to be. But I do believe in setting the example. I work with cadets and I need to show them how to wear the uniform properly. I think CAP should go to all military style uniforms. Either the Air Force style uniform or the White shirt/grey pants "only" for those not meeting height and weight standards. I think that will help in our professional image and with our relationship with the Air Force. Right now, I dont think they look at us the same way the Coast Guard looks at the CG Aux.

And I think it shouldnt be an option that members that do meet ht & wt wear the military style uniform I know that sounds drastic and seemike its singling out our overweight members, but this is an organization and we have to have standards, Point blank. We worry so much about not "offending" people that we lower our standatrds and that affects the organization as a whole.

And actually, I think we need to increase our ht & wt standards.The SDF has a ht & wt standard. Why dont we? Becaue we dont want to be "mean" and turn people away? I understand that we have a lot of members that dont meet ht & wt that are very smart and make a great impact on CAP. but again, we have to have standards thatare going make the organization as a whole look and feel professional.
Logged
DG
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 502

« Reply #45 on: March 10, 2009, 09:35:59 AM »

The United States Coast Guard Auxiliary is the civilian, uniformed volunteer component of the United States Coast Guard, as well as the lead volunteer force in the Department of Homeland Security. The 31,000 volunteer members (men and women) donate time in support of the Coast Guard and Maritime Domain Awareness missions.

Auxiliarists are authorized to wear uniforms similar to those of Coast Guard officers, but with distinctive insignia and devices.

Customs and Courtesies

The Auxiliary is nonmilitary, and Auxiliarists hold office instead of rank. However, courtesy and goodwill need to be observed. Certain military customs and courtesies of the Coast Guard do apply to Auxiliarists as follows:

Respect toward our Nation.
Courtesy aboard United States military vessels.
Respect and courtesy toward the flags, vessels, officials and other personnel of friendly nations.
Mutual respect and courtesy toward other Auxiliarists.

Saluting

Saluting is not usual, and not required between Auxiliarist members. It is, however, proper for Auxiliarists to salute when greeting members of the Armed Forces. Auxiliarists when out of doors, in uniform and covered, should:

Give a hand salute to officers of the Armed Forces more "senior" or equal (based on the number of stripes or metal rank insignia) to them.
Give a hand salute to the National Ensign:
When the flag is raised or lowered of the flag at morning and evening colors.
When the flag passes them in a parade.
When the National Anthem or Taps is played.
Logged
Phil Hirons, Jr.
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 803
Unit: NER-RI-001

« Reply #46 on: March 10, 2009, 09:48:55 AM »

And actually, I think we need to increase our ht & wt standards.The SDF has a ht & wt standard. Why dont we? Becaue we dont want to be "mean" and turn people away? I understand that we have a lot of members that dont meet ht & wt that are very smart and make a great impact on CAP. but again, we have to have standards thatare going make the organization as a whole look and feel professional.

As in, you don't make ht & wt, go away? >:( 

Since I rejoined as a senior member officer, I've never put on the USAF uniform because I know I don't make ht & wt. I wear my alternate uniform properly. But in your mind my combined 10 years experience, the PD I've both taken and taught, and ES ratings up to IC2 should be flushed?
Logged
jimmydeanno
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 4,155
Unit: ǝnƃoɹ

« Reply #47 on: March 10, 2009, 09:58:51 AM »

I love how people not saluting has been linked to them being overweight and therefore they shouldn't be in the organization.  What the heck is the matter with 'you people.'

Have you noticed that the people who demand higher standards and professionalism are, a lot of the time, the ones who are the most belligerent and intolerant? 

I don't know about the rest of you, but even though I have 12 years experience in this organization and am 'fit and trim', the person I go to when I need help with something ES related is the 'big fat guy' in my squadron.  When I need help with how to deal with an issue I haven't approached before, I go to the 'fat guy' with the goatee. 

I've learned more about people, leadership and general knowledge in CAP from those that people are so quick to dismiss than I ever have from those who would kick them out.

I think this is a perfect example of our 'culture.'
Logged
If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law. - Winston Churchill
CAP Producer
Seasoned Member

Posts: 209

« Reply #48 on: March 10, 2009, 10:01:50 AM »

I love how people not saluting has been linked to them being overweight and therefore they shouldn't be in the organization.  What the heck is the matter with 'you people.'

Have you noticed that the people who demand higher standards and professionalism are, a lot of the time, the ones who are the most belligerent and intolerant? 

I don't know about the rest of you, but even though I have 12 years experience in this organization and am 'fit and trim', the person I go to when I need help with something ES related is the 'big fat guy' in my squadron.  When I need help with how to deal with an issue I haven't approached before, I go to the 'fat guy' with the goatee. 

I've learned more about people, leadership and general knowledge in CAP from those that people are so quick to dismiss than I ever have from those who would kick them out.

I think this is a perfect example of our 'culture.'

Well Said.
Logged
AL PABON, Major, CAP
JayT
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,338

« Reply #49 on: March 10, 2009, 10:07:20 AM »


And I think it shouldnt be an option that members that do meet ht & wt wear the military style uniform I know that sounds drastic and seemike its singling out our overweight members, but this is an organization and we have to have standards, Point blank. We worry so much about not "offending" people that we lower our standatrds and that affects the organization as a whole.

And actually, I think we need to increase our ht & wt standards.The SDF has a ht & wt standard. Why dont we? Becaue we dont want to be "mean" and turn people away? I understand that we have a lot of members that dont meet ht & wt that are very smart and make a great impact on CAP. but again, we have to have standards thatare going make the organization as a whole look and feel professional.

Who gives a wooden Nickle to what the 'State Defense Forces' do (what do they do again? Also, wasn't there a a discussion here a few months ago to the effect of we should drop Height and Weight because the Air Force 'authorizes' SDF's to wear the uniform?")

You don't need to be thin and trim to look and feel professional. You need to be............be........professional. You need to be willing to put the hours in, the sweat, the tears, the blood, the ulcers in.

As I've said before, don't put other people down because you have a vision of what the organization should be.

We don't want to 'turn people away' because then we wont be able to preform the Air Force assigned mission ya'll are so keen on preforming.

I'm a full time student  at a University, I'm part time at my EMS Academy for an advance EMT class, I work a full time and part time job (which is why I haven't been active in CAP of late) and I'm about twenty pounds over weight. If you prefer, when you're having a heart attack, you can weight for the thin movie poster crew to get there in pressed shirts with clean gear rather then overweight me in a pressed shirt and clean gear.

This is a classic example of CAP culture...........you're more worried about the guys looking good then what they can accomplish.
Logged
"Eagerness and thrill seeking in others' misery is psychologically corrosive, and is also rampant in EMS. It's a natural danger of the job. It will be something to keep under control, something to fight against."
heliodoc
Suspended

Posts: 945

« Reply #50 on: March 10, 2009, 10:36:50 AM »

As I have hinted before

Wanna be fit and trim??  Join the real miltary.

For those who have in the past, we have done it

CAP has a lot of talent........  for you WANNBEEE RM'ers.... join it and get off peoples' backs

We need all the talent we can get....get it through your heads  We are volunteers doing a service

SOOOON enough there will standards, if you folks think we can do ALL those DHS missions

Then we will see even those fit and trims drop off line if there are any fitness standards...

In the meantime, your ideas and weight and height...... 50 per cent of CAP would gone

Think about that  you wannbee SDFer and RMers'!!!!!

If u want all this draft it up and submit up the chain of command....that is a true RM statement...
Logged
JoeTomasone
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,661

« Reply #51 on: March 10, 2009, 11:31:57 AM »


"That Guy"

http://www.macdill.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123132532
Logged
heliodoc
Suspended

Posts: 945

« Reply #52 on: March 10, 2009, 11:39:31 AM »

Great article...

Maybe CAP should adopt a completely new uni with the graces of 1AF.. keep the funding coming BUT clear the way for the new uni for all the fit and trims and the fat guys

Again it would be nice to ENFORCE ENFORCE ENFORCE but again until the 1 AF General comes down and "hammers" requirements for 39-1 at NHQ....that "enforcement" has no legs....
Logged
Chappie
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,063

« Reply #53 on: March 10, 2009, 11:41:01 AM »

Quote
1/2 the people aren't wearing the golf shirt - certainly not exclusively.  Its an appropriate uniform for certain kinds of duty and is the same thing worn regulalry by similar services.
Oh, I know I've been to my share of functions where the golf shirt has been 50%+, and I think it is inarguable in saying that it isn't becoming more common.  A recent photo of a Wing-level PD class in my wing shows 15/20 members in attendence wearing the golf shirt (2 in the AF blues, 2 in aviatior shirts, and 1 in civilian clothes).   A review of photos of the same class in 2 previous years shows a definite and significant trend towards the golf shirt. 

The others services have similar shirts, but it is not a common uniform used on almost all occassions by many members. 

If we were all in military-style uniforms of some sort, a military sort of culture could be retained if the leaders worked at it and set the example. 

In a week from now, the PCR Chaplain Corps will conduct their Chaplain Corps Region Staff College at McChord AFB.  The only authorized uniforms for the school are the  basic USAF style uniform and the white aviator/gray slacks or shirt for the classroom sessions and the Full-service USAF style uniform and the Blazer Combo for the concluding luncheon.  Customs and courtesies will be used (in fact, part of the registration packet was the inclusion of the CAPP 151) and there will be an uniform inspection conducted on the first day of classes.  It's called "professionalism" and following the Core Value of excellence.

No CSU option?

That is correct....the CSU is not an option.  Here is reasoning behind it:

1)  Unlike other members of CAP, chaplains wear the very same rating insignia as do the USAF active and reserve chaplains -- that is the emblem of their faith group.  In their role as a "force multiplier" with the military, Chaplains are not to wear the CSU.  Those serving as a "force multiplier" must meet certain criteria set forth by the USAF Chief of the Chaplain Corps: http://members.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/Military_Support_Guidelines_8674B4A14F5A7.pdf;

2)  While the CAP culture is great appreciated and embraced, at the same time the PCR Chaplain Corps is conducting its Staff College on an active USAF base.  We want to be gracious guests and fit into their culture (i.e. no ribbons on the short sleeve shirt -- strictly adhering to the  Customs and Courtesies -- wearing the USAF style uniform properly, etc.) and since the CSU is the "corporate uniform" it does have some close similarities to the USAF style that might raise some eyebrows from the real military types.  So the blazer combo and the white aviator/gray slacks-skirt uniform is the civilian uniform of choice.  Other Region Chaplain Corps may conduct their staff college at a conference/retreat center where the CSU could be worn (I have no problem with that) or may allow the CSU to be worn on an active military (there isn't a "set" policy on this), but it is something that the PCR Chaplain Corps has "traditionally" adopted/done as an act of respect to those who wear the uniform that we often interact with and encourages a more professional look.

My personal .002 in response to Riveraux's observations regarding the golf shirt/slacks at a Professional Development event:  leave that in your closet or wear the polo/golf shirt after hours or for traveling to and from the event.
But for SLS/CLC/UCC/RSC  these are "professional" development classes -- look the part by wearing the USAF-Style uniform, the Corporate Style Uniform, or the white aviator shirt/gray slacks-skirt or blazer combo....the event is held where we are in the eyes of others.   A uniform makes a statement.  
Logged
Disclaimer:  Not to be confused with the other user that goes by "Chappy"   :)
Smithsonia
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,122

« Reply #54 on: March 10, 2009, 11:52:55 AM »

Remember the movie Midway. Not my favorite war movie but, there is a character who is breaking Japanese military codes (he's played by Hal Holbrook) He's meeting Adm. Nimitz in his bathrobe, chewing on worn-out cigars, messy hair, rumpled and less than squared away... but he's saving the day. The military has always tolerated these less than parade ground spit and polish types.

If you think that there's only one way to win a war... then you'll only be able to fight one war. In our case please substitute the word mission for the word war. In the military they have more reason to keep it square. In WW2 we looked more like the military too. That said, I've got white hair, not gray, white. I know more than anyone in the military about subjects that are important to CAP and the military. It is how I earned all the white hairs.

I am respectful of the uniform and protocols. My shoes are shined, my clothes are cleaned, my head is trimmed, etc. I am not respectful of the folks who like only one kind of man. I'll judge a person by performance and leave the silly uniformity to the sloped-brains that can think but one way. We aren't just a visual creature... we are a thinking one also. Try it occasionally. It doesn't actually hurt.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2009, 11:57:05 AM by Smithsonia » Logged
With regards;
ED OBRIEN
Short Field
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,003

« Reply #55 on: March 10, 2009, 02:08:22 PM »

But in your mind my combined 10 years experience, the PD I've both taken and taught, and ES ratings up to IC2 should be flushed?

That's ok, he feels the same about me since I put on 15 lbs since retiring.  Active duty I was measured using body fat, now it is a flat ht/wt number.  I didn't meet the Ht/Wt number when I had 17% body fat!
Logged
SAR/DR MP, ARCHOP, AOBD, GTM1, GBD, LSC, FASC, LO, PIO, MSO(T), & IC2
Wilson #2640
Gunner C
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,748

« Reply #56 on: March 10, 2009, 04:52:41 PM »

Quote
1/2 the people aren't wearing the golf shirt - certainly not exclusively.  Its an appropriate uniform for certain kinds of duty and is the same thing worn regulalry by similar services.
Oh, I know I've been to my share of functions where the golf shirt has been 50%+, and I think it is inarguable in saying that it isn't becoming more common.  A recent photo of a Wing-level PD class in my wing shows 15/20 members in attendence wearing the golf shirt (2 in the AF blues, 2 in aviatior shirts, and 1 in civilian clothes).   A review of photos of the same class in 2 previous years shows a definite and significant trend towards the golf shirt. 

The others services have similar shirts, but it is not a common uniform used on almost all occassions by many members. 

If we were all in military-style uniforms of some sort, a military sort of culture could be retained if the leaders worked at it and set the example. 

In a week from now, the PCR Chaplain Corps will conduct their Chaplain Corps Region Staff College at McChord AFB.  The only authorized uniforms for the school are the  basic USAF style uniform and the white aviator/gray slacks or shirt for the classroom sessions and the Full-service USAF style uniform and the Blazer Combo for the concluding luncheon.  Customs and courtesies will be used (in fact, part of the registration packet was the inclusion of the CAPP 151) and there will be an uniform inspection conducted on the first day of classes.  It's called "professionalism" and following the Core Value of excellence.
Holy cow!  The chaplains are leading the way.  The line officers around them should be embarrassed.
Logged
LtCol Hooligan
Forum Regular

Posts: 183

North Dakota Wing, CAP
« Reply #57 on: March 10, 2009, 05:08:37 PM »

That is correct....the CSU is not an option.  Here is reasoning behind it:

1)  Unlike other members of CAP, chaplains wear the very same rating insignia as do the USAF active and reserve chaplains -- that is the emblem of their faith group.  In their role as a "force multiplier" with the military, Chaplains are not to wear the CSU.  Those serving as a "force multiplier" must meet certain criteria set forth by the USAF Chief of the Chaplain Corps: http://members.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/Military_Support_Guidelines_8674B4A14F5A7.pdf;

2)  While the CAP culture is great appreciated and embraced, at the same time the PCR Chaplain Corps is conducting its Staff College on an active USAF base.  We want to be gracious guests and fit into their culture (i.e. no ribbons on the short sleeve shirt -- strictly adhering to the  Customs and Courtesies -- wearing the USAF style uniform properly, etc.) and since the CSU is the "corporate uniform" it does have some close similarities to the USAF style that might raise some eyebrows from the real military types.  So the blazer combo and the white aviator/gray slacks-skirt uniform is the civilian uniform of choice.  Other Region Chaplain Corps may conduct their staff college at a conference/retreat center where the CSU could be worn (I have no problem with that) or may allow the CSU to be worn on an active military (there isn't a "set" policy on this), but it is something that the PCR Chaplain Corps has "traditionally" adopted/done as an act of respect to those who wear the uniform that we often interact with and encourages a more professional look.

My personal .002 in response to Riveraux's observations regarding the golf shirt/slacks at a Professional Development event:  leave that in your closet or wear the polo/golf shirt after hours or for traveling to and from the event.
But for SLS/CLC/UCC/RSC  these are "professional" development classes -- look the part by wearing the USAF-Style uniform, the Corporate Style Uniform, or the white aviator shirt/gray slacks-skirt or blazer combo....the event is held where we are in the eyes of others.   A uniform makes a statement.

Chappie,
The link you posted is broken.  I was hoping to read it as I was confused by the force multiplier comment.  Are you saying that only those who meet certain standards can do this?  I have met a lot of chaplans who wear the CSU and actually I believe the first person I saw wearing the CSU was a chaplain.  

I also had a question on your statement about how chaplains wearing the CSU will raise some eye brows from those in the military.  I think that is the case for any CAP uniform where the member has never been exposed to CAP before.  The grey shoulder boards get interesting looks on the blues uniform.  I think it is an opportunity have a conversation about what CAP is along with the Chaplain core is.  Now I have never worn the CSU and I agree that we have a lot of uniforms, but it seems strange to limit the wear of a specific uniform when it fits the professional develop level of the school.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2009, 06:19:46 PM by MIKE » Logged
ERIK C. LUDLOW, Lt Col, CAP
Director of IT; Director of Cadet Programs
North Dakota Wing, Civil Air Patrol
http://www.ndcap.us
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,249

« Reply #58 on: March 10, 2009, 05:29:02 PM »

^+1 (at the least)

I've written about three different responses to that quoted text above, and hit delete on all of them, deciding to erect a
"Somebody Else's Problem Field" around it instead.

However I thing the reasoning provided is misguided and just alienates members.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2009, 05:32:35 PM by Eclipse » Logged


flyguy06
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,195

« Reply #59 on: March 10, 2009, 05:53:56 PM »

And actually, I think we need to increase our ht & wt standards.The SDF has a ht & wt standard. Why dont we? Becaue we dont want to be "mean" and turn people away? I understand that we have a lot of members that dont meet ht & wt that are very smart and make a great impact on CAP. but again, we have to have standards thatare going make the organization as a whole look and feel professional.

As in, you don't make ht & wt, go away? >:( 

Since I rejoined as a senior member officer, I've never put on the USAF uniform because I know I don't make ht & wt. I wear my alternate uniform properly. But in your mind my combined 10 years experience, the PD I've both taken and taught, and ES ratings up to IC2 should be flushed?

And I have 20 years of military service. i am also a civilan flight instructor. but guess what? I dont meet the requirements to be a military pilot. So, yes,as much as I would love to fly jets, it aint gonna happen and I just have to learn to accept that I don tmeet the standards no matter how good I think I am. Again, that swhat i mean. We want to "accomadate" evertyone and we dont want to "hurt" anyones feelings and becaue of that attitude we have let our standards go down. No I am not talking specifically about ht & wt standards. that was just an example. I mean we dont enforce standards becaue we dont want to hurt anyones feelings. i am sure there are a lot of great people out there that could be a police officer, but if they dont meet ALL the requirements guess what? they cant be a police officer.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 Print 
CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  The Lobby  |  Topic: The CAP Culture
 


Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP SMF 2.0.14 | SMF © 2017, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.254 seconds with 25 queries.