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rebowman
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« on: January 23, 2009, 09:05:30 PM »

Does anyone have advice on working with cadets that have autism, ADHD, or aspergers syndrome?
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0
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« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2009, 09:19:33 PM »

well first off before learning about others experiences, I'd first learn that aspergers is a form of autism.   ;D

I've got a little experience in this, at least on the ADHD side.  Find out where the cadet's problems are and find away around them.  For example if they don't test well when reading the test have somene read the test to them.  And if it's the way they learn find away to help them learn if they learn better with hands on find ways you can teach using a good hands on model.  Plus everyone can have fun working with their hands too.
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1st Lt Ricky Walsh, CAP
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« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2009, 09:23:19 PM »

Quote
before learning about others experiences, I'd first learn that aspergers is a form of autism
+1 and I would also spend some time looking into ADHD as well. 

Specifically what advice are you looking for?  Someone who has cadets in their unit, someone who has experience with them at activities or problems with?  I have had some very limited (when I say limited I mean week long or weekend long) experience working with a very "few" cadets and some kids (not CAP cadets) who have had these issues, ADHD and Aspergers.  But before I would comment I would want to know specifically what your after.............this can be a difficult or tricky subject depending upon the specific situation.  
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« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2009, 10:24:46 PM »

Working with special needs cadets can be a challange.  But there are lots of places locally to go for help.  Start with their family and then go see the same counselor/doctor/teacher that they see.

Beyond that I am just an experinced amature and I don't know if any of my experinces and limited training can help you.

Good Luck
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PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP
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« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2009, 03:37:11 PM »

As a parent of a child with Autism.... Graduating from High School (with honors) ;D  this sunday (mid year graduation) I can say that they can be more focused than most of the normal cadets. My son excelled in NJROTC, he wasn't interested in CAP. Cadets with Autism/ADHD/ADD or any of the special needs can find the Cadet Program very helpful, but parental involvement is key along with communication with the parents and the cadet. The organized nature of the cadet program is sometimes able to bring out the strenghts of these cadets.
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Joseph Myers Maj. CAP
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« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2009, 06:01:31 PM »

ADHD and Autism come in many forms and effect people differently. I'm going to share some advice that my AFROTC Det. Commander shared with me (paraphrasing). "Give your subordinates whatever they need to succeed. In some cases, that means leaving them alone and letting them do what they do best. In other cases, you may have to hold their hand every step of the way."

This was part of a class he was giving on working with people. We all have special needs. We all need certain things to succeed regardless of what mental or physical condition we may or may not have. The point is that you should treat them no differently than your other cadets. Tell them (and their parents) what you expect from them and hold them to the standards. You as the officer/leader should know what your cadets are and are not capable of. If you notice that your cadet is struggling in an area, help them. Tell them what they are doing wrong and offer solutions to the problem. If you notice that your cadet is excelling in another area, exploit it. Put them in a position where they can use their skills best. When they perform well, compliment and reward them. When they do something wrong, correct them. That's you job as a leader and a CAP officer.

Good luck. Let us know if you need any specific help.
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FlexCoder
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« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2009, 05:28:24 AM »

Put them in a position where they can use their skills best. When they perform well, compliment and reward them. When they do something wrong, correct them. That's you job as a leader and a CAP officer.

Well said, AlwaysReady...I like your attitude of including everyone on the "team" and acknowledging them as a person rather than focusing on the disorder.    Two Thumbs Up!

Other ADHD Tips from the Field -

When someone with ADHD makes a mistake, avoid saying that ADHD is the reason for their blunder especially with others around; no excuses period.  I've seen a few publicly disclose ADHD as an excuse and that only makes the situation worse by alienating them from the rest.  It's not common in CAP but it does happen like in any large organization. 

Most people are ignorant about ADHD and many believe it is an excuse for bad behavior, ADHD is a proven medical disorder not a fabrication.  And most people do not have ADHD and are often misdiagnosed because of hyperactivity.  Simply put, ADHD is a chemical imbalance in the brain.   ADHD people are different, sensitive, action-oriented, very creative, difficult with focusing, hard time finishing projects on time and more aware to voices, surroundings than most people realize, especially to criticism.    I have noticed on missions, that members with ADHD have a keen sense of hearing/seeing important SAR clues that are essential to the mission that most would walk by and miss it, best to utilize their gifts, talents and provide them a genuine sense of belonging to the team.   ADHD kids are also very blunt and say things without thinking, so keep that in mind.  When the medicine wears off, they get very irritable, restless, tired and can be brutally honest.   Don't take their comments personally unless it becomes a consistent or disturbing problem. 

Another tip, privately offer ADHD members,  the option of a private room to take tests with an extended amount of time & breaks.   ADHD are easily distracted and will be looking around the room and may get accused of cheating.   Or they waste time distracted with someone's foot shaking or another tapping their pen that they lose concentration to finish the test and end up failing it as a result.   Schedule a quiet time free of distractions for them to take the test so that other members aren't aware of it too.    It is best to keep their situation in private unless they choose to disclose it publicly.   They are also entitled by law, private notetakers for classes but I don't believe CAP would need to go that far but depends on situation.   And most ADHD do badly on multiple choice tests.    Alternative testing methods work best with ADHD such as a fill in the blank/essay type, verbal type or have them demonstrate hands-on that they know the material.     However, it is very important to have Wing involved with this situation to make sure the testing is not questioned, compromised or violated.    Also, ADHD rights are protected under the American Disabilities Act with specific guidelines, legalities & laws.   It would be beneficial if National CAP published a guide or pamphlet in regard to disabilities & member rights.  Best for you or anyone in CAP to read & learn about ADHD, Autism, the Disability Laws, etc beforehand.  If you need any current info, resources, tips, email me anytime...

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Rotorhead
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« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2009, 05:25:51 AM »

Another tip, privately offer ADHD members,  the option of a private room to take tests with an extended amount of time & breaks. 
I find this problematic, to say the least, especially after you said, "I've seen a few publicly disclose ADHD as an excuse... "
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« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2009, 05:36:06 AM »

My brother is severely autistic among other things, and all of our research and discussions with other families has shown that routine is the name of the game. 

Chances are any autistic cadet will be high functioning and able to handle social environments, but as I mentioned the more structure you can provide them the easier they will integrate. 

Making special arrangements isn't always necessary, but if it is you can't let it be a burden to you. Think positive, reward success, correct issues and move on.

You will most likely need a family member to come to meetings for a while until you establish a trust relationship, and can provide a level of comfort.  But eventually it will become vital to success that the parents go away
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« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2009, 05:42:27 AM »

Most people are ignorant about ADHD and many believe it is an excuse for bad behavior, ADHD is a proven medical disorder not a fabrication. 

While this is not the forum to debate the subject, it needs to be sad that there is considerable amount of controversy in the medical, psychiatric, and teaching community regarding ADHD, up to and including whether it is really a medical condition in an of itself, and especially as to whether the growing number of children diagnosed is due to an increase in the condition, or an increase in parents looking for easy answers to behavior problems, coupled with aggressive marketing by drug companies.

I offer this page:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attention-deficit_hyperactivity_disorder_controversies by no means as a definitive text on the subject, but as a good starting point to considering the controversies regarding the condition, diagnoses, and related issues.
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FlexCoder
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« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2009, 06:56:01 AM »

Most people are ignorant about ADHD and many believe it is an excuse for bad behavior, ADHD is a proven medical disorder not a fabrication. 

While this is not the forum to debate the subject, it needs to be said that there is considerable amount of controversy in the medical, psychiatric, and teaching community regarding ADHD, up to and including whether it is really a medical condition in an of itself, and especially as to whether the growing number of children diagnosed is due to an increase in the condition, or an increase in parents looking for easy answers to behavior problems, coupled with aggressive marketing by drug companies.

The debate isn't about ADHD alone but ADHD in CAP.      ADHD is an actual medical condition despite what you have watched on TV.   It is true that ADHD has been overdiagnosed & the drug companies have taken advantage which is unfortunate but that doesn't mean it is false.   I have worked with a lot of cadets/seniors with ADHD and once you have had first hand experience, you will realize that it isn't something made up.   Whether you believe in ADHD or not, whatever you do don't tell a cadet that you think ADHD is questionable because it will hurt him or her more than you will ever know.
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Rotorhead
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« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2009, 07:01:45 AM »

The debate isn't about ADHD alone but ADHD in CAP.      ADHD is an actual medical condition despite what you have watched on TV.   It is true that ADHD has been overdiagnosed & the drug companies have taken advantage which is unfortunate but that doesn't mean it is false.   I have worked with a lot of cadets/seniors with ADHD and once you have had first hand experience, you will realize that it isn't something made up.   Whether you believe in ADHD or not, whatever you do don't tell a cadet that you think ADHD is questionable because it will hurt him or her more than you will ever know.
What you're saying is, you believe it is an actual medical condition. The scientific community, however, is far from convinced of that fact.

With that in mind, it becomes a question of how much accomodation to give to someone who claims to have said condition.
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Capt. Scott Orr, CAP
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FlexCoder
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« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2009, 09:11:03 AM »

The debate isn't about ADHD alone but ADHD in CAP.      ADHD is an actual medical condition despite what you have watched on TV.   It is true that ADHD has been overdiagnosed & the drug companies have taken advantage which is unfortunate but that doesn't mean it is false.   I have worked with a lot of cadets/seniors with ADHD and once you have had first hand experience, you will realize that it isn't something made up.   Whether you believe in ADHD or not, whatever you do don't tell a cadet that you think ADHD is questionable because it will hurt him or her more than you will ever know.
What you're saying is, you believe it is an actual medical condition. The scientific community, however, is far from convinced of that fact.

With that in mind, it becomes a question of how much accomodation to give to someone who claims to have said condition.

I am referring to the psychology community not scientific theories nor anyone's opinion.    It's unfortunate that you are ignorant of mental disorders.
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SM-MADDOG
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« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2009, 10:00:02 AM »

Well if its not a condition then why does the government pay some social security disability benefits? I mean they dont pay it if your foot itches lol.

I do also agree 100% that some doctors and school personnel jump the gun sometimes in saying a student or adult is ADHD. But yes it is a condition. Also I feel proud for the student and cadets that are ADHD because depending on the person and the condition they may have to work very hard.

Dont look down on them if they do have such a condition. Because as I said above I feel proud that they are doing the cadet program and are working hard at it. If You have any doubts about it ask your self the question would the other cadets stay in the program if they had ADHD. Now im not saying they would. But We can suspect some of them wouldnt. Persons with ADHD just have to work around the condition and sometimes work harder. They are good in my book.
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« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2009, 04:28:34 PM »

The debate isn't about ADHD alone but ADHD in CAP.      ADHD is an actual medical condition despite what you have watched on TV.   It is true that ADHD has been overdiagnosed & the drug companies have taken advantage which is unfortunate but that doesn't mean it is false.   I have worked with a lot of cadets/seniors with ADHD and once you have had first hand experience, you will realize that it isn't something made up.   Whether you believe in ADHD or not, whatever you do don't tell a cadet that you think ADHD is questionable because it will hurt him or her more than you will ever know.
What you're saying is, you believe it is an actual medical condition. The scientific community, however, is far from convinced of that fact.

With that in mind, it becomes a question of how much accomodation to give to someone who claims to have said condition.

I am referring to the psychology community not scientific theories nor anyone's opinion.    It's unfortunate that you are ignorant of mental disorders.
All I am saying is, some medical professionals believe firmly that there is such a thing as ADHD.

Others do not.

Calling me ignorant does not change that simple reality.

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« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2009, 11:17:08 PM »

I had a rather high-functioning young man with Aspergers in my unit a few years ago. He excelled at CAP (and was often a bit of a challenge to manage as a commander) for a number of reasons.  As stated, structure is key.  Folks with ASDs often don't do so well with social cues and social appropriateness, and yet here's CAP, a paramilitary organization, with a nice structured set of rules for social interaction between members.  Don't know how to act? Look at the guy's shoulder and you have a jumping off point. 

This young man buried himself into the CAPP 151, for example, and while he seemed to get 90% of it, and applied it, there were other times where things were not quite so clear-cut and he veered off into the land of "inappropriate social interactions" (ie. starting conversations about things that were unrelated to what we were doing, etc)

That said, my 10 year old daughter has Autism, and I'm about 99% sure that she won't be a cadet.  She lacks self control and self-regulation, and unless there is some kind of a massive change in her in the next 24-48 months, well, you get the picture.  Standing in formation is out, as is marching, saluting and Aerospace...



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Nathan
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« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2009, 07:56:59 PM »

Not an expert, but I'm a psych major with a strong interest in abnormal psychology and have some personal experience with most of the disorders mentioned. So I'll contribute what I can.

First off, I have not met or worked with many cadet-aged people who have autism (or Asperger's, lumped in there) who seemed to have any interest in anything like CAP. This sort of follows the definition of the disorder; difficult social interaction leads to less desire for social interaction. So what you find is oftentimes that it is the PARENTS who push these kids into CAP in the attempt to socially integrate them.

Sometimes, this can be successful. I've worked with someone with Asperger's who ended up quite decorated in CAP (and a bit of a reg nerd) because, after entering CAP, he learned to function better in society than if left up to his own devices. As NIN mentioned, CAP is a militaristic organization, and the structure and rules that dictate behavior and action are pretty cut-and-dry. That structure tends to help those with Asperger's and higher functioning autism.

But it is important to keep in mind that it is likely only a small percent more of those with higher-functioning autism are going to adhere to CAP than would any other cadet who's been forced into CAP. Cadets have to WANT to be cadets in order to succeed, whether that's as a mentally healthy cadet, a cadet with autism, a cadet in a wheelchair, or whatever. It's always going to be about the motivation, and if the kid doesn't WANT to join CAP, whether that's due to the social alienation caused by the autism or due to just plain disinterest, then there really isn't much we can do about it. We should give every cadet a chance, but there comes a time when a commander may think about sitting down with the parents and discussing what CAP is and is not capable of doing. We are not a rehabilitation center, and we cannot simply take an autistic cadet who doesn't want to be a member and turn him or her into a sterling example of mental health. It just isn't going to happen.

As far as the ADD/ADHD... eh. ADD/ADHD, to my knowledge, is never a "severe" disorder. Generally if the symptoms become actually debilitating, it's called Mania or Bipolar disorder. If they aren't, it's called ADD/ADHD. And almost everyone who is diagnosed with this disorder is on Ritalin, Focalin, or something of the like to help control it.

So really whether or not it is an actually disorder is completely irrelevant as far as we deal with them. If they have it, they should have their medication. If they don't have the disorder or the medication for the disorder, then you treat that cadet the same way you would treat ANY cadet who's lagging. I mean, how many scenarios do we actually have?

A) Cadet has ADD/ADHD with medication: Work with parents, commanders, and the cadet's team to ensure that the cadet can complete all activities and succeed.

B) Cadet has ADD/ADHD without medication: Work with parents, commanders, and the cadet's team to ensure that the cadet can complete all activities and succeed.

C) Cadet is handicapped: Work with parents, commanders, and the cadet's team to ensure that the cadet can complete all activities and succeed.

D) Cadet has weight problems: Work with parents, commanders, and the cadet's team to ensure that the cadet can complete all activities and succeed.

E) Cadet has a difficult accent: Work with parents, commanders, and the cadet's team to ensure that the cadet can complete all activities and succeed.

F) Cadet is dumb as dirt: Work with parents, commanders, and the cadet's team to ensure that the cadet can complete all activities and succeed.

G) Cadet is completely normal and capable: Work with parents, commanders, and the cadet's team to ensure that the cadet can complete all activities and succeed.

I mean, it's the same plan any way you go. All cadets are going to have individual training needs, no matter what disorder they have (or do not have). You can take two perfectly healthy cadets, and one's going to need more motivation than they other, or one is going to need instructions written down while the other is a verbal learner. The ADD, ADHD, autism, Asperger's, or whatever is just another factor that we as leaders learn to accommodate and overcome.

Don't forget the biggest mistake that ALL leaders make at one point when dealing with "problem cadets", regardless of the "problem." NO ONE outside of a clinical, psychologically trained person is trained to handle any sort of problem like this alone, and few psychiatrists or psychologists I know would try to help a patient without familial or societal interaction. Overcoming these problems is a TEAM effort, and this team needs to involve everyone. It needs to involve the commander, the parents, the team, the supporting staff members, and, crucially, the CADET INVOLVED. If you can't get the cadet on your team, then it's going to be a long, painful journey, likely to nowhere.

YMMV
« Last Edit: January 27, 2009, 08:02:45 PM by Nathan » Report to moderator   Logged
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« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2009, 08:05:37 PM »

Not an expert, but I'm a psych major with a strong interest in abnormal psychology and have some personal experience with most of the disorders mentioned. So I'll contribute what I can.

First off, I have not met or worked with many cadet-aged people who have autism (or Asperger's, lumped in there) who seemed to have any interest in anything like CAP. This sort of follows the definition of the disorder; difficult social interaction leads to less desire for social interaction. So what you find is oftentimes that it is the PARENTS who push these kids into CAP in the attempt to socially integrate them.

Sometimes, this can be successful. I've worked with someone with Asperger's who ended up quite decorated in CAP (and a bit of a reg nerd) because, after entering CAP, he learned to function better in society than if left up to his own devices. As NIN mentioned, CAP is a militaristic organization, and the structure and rules that dictate behavior and action are pretty cut-and-dry. That structure tends to help those with Asperger's and higher functioning autism.

But it is important to keep in mind that it is likely only a small percent more of those with higher-functioning autism are going to adhere to CAP than would any other cadet who's been forced into CAP. Cadets have to WANT to be cadets in order to succeed, whether that's as a mentally healthy cadet, a cadet with autism, a cadet in a wheelchair, or whatever. It's always going to be about the motivation, and if the kid doesn't WANT to join CAP, whether that's due to the social alienation caused by the autism or due to just plain disinterest, then there really isn't much we can do about it. We should give every cadet a chance, but there comes a time when a commander may think about sitting down with the parents and discussing what CAP is and is not capable of doing. We are not a rehabilitation center, and we cannot simply take an autistic cadet who doesn't want to be a member and turn him or her into a sterling example of mental health. It just isn't going to happen.

As far as the ADD/ADHD... eh. ADD/ADHD, to my knowledge, is never a "severe" disorder. Generally if the symptoms become actually debilitating, it's called Mania or Bipolar disorder. If they aren't, it's called ADD/ADHD. And almost everyone who is diagnosed with this disorder is on Ritalin, Focalin, or something of the like to help control it.

So really whether or not it is an actually disorder is completely irrelevant as far as we deal with them. If they have it, they should have their medication. If they don't have the disorder or the medication for the disorder, then you treat that cadet the same way you would treat ANY cadet who's lagging. I mean, how many scenarios do we actually have?

A) Cadet has ADD/ADHD with medication: Work with parents, commanders, and the cadet's team to ensure that the cadet can complete all activities and succeed.

B) Cadet has ADD/ADHD without medication: Work with parents, commanders, and the cadet's team to ensure that the cadet can complete all activities and succeed.

C) Cadet is handicapped: Work with parents, commanders, and the cadet's team to ensure that the cadet can complete all activities and succeed.

D) Cadet has weight problems: Work with parents, commanders, and the cadet's team to ensure that the cadet can complete all activities and succeed.

E) Cadet has a difficult accent: Work with parents, commanders, and the cadet's team to ensure that the cadet can complete all activities and succeed.

F) Cadet is dumb as dirt: Work with parents, commanders, and the cadet's team to ensure that the cadet can complete all activities and succeed.

G) Cadet is completely normal and capable: Work with parents, commanders, and the cadet's team to ensure that the cadet can complete all activities and succeed.

I mean, it's the same plan any way you go. All cadets are going to have individual training needs, no matter what disorder they have (or do not have). You can take two perfectly healthy cadets, and one's going to need more motivation than they other, or one is going to need instructions written down while the other is a verbal learner. The ADD, ADHD, autism, Asperger's, or whatever is just another factor that we as leaders learn to accommodate and overcome.

Don't forget the biggest mistake that ALL leaders make at one point when dealing with "problem cadets", regardless of the "problem." NO ONE outside of a clinical, psychologically trained person is trained to handle any sort of problem like this alone, and few psychiatrists or psychologists I know would try to help a patient without familial or societal interaction. Overcoming these problems is a TEAM effort, and this team needs to involve everyone. It needs to involve the commander, the parents, the team, the supporting staff members, and, crucially, the CADET INVOLVED. If you can't get the cadet on your team, then it's going to be a long, painful journey, likely to nowhere.

YMMV
Bravo  :clap: :clap: :clap:
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« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2009, 08:50:58 AM »

As a squadron commander, I found that the formula above is the only way to go.  Working with the parents, you can take a difficult cadet and turn them into a good one, take a good cadet and turn them into a great one.  Each one has their potential, none are the same.  Our job is to make them into their best self. 
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« Reply #19 on: August 09, 2009, 01:31:56 AM »

As a squadron commander, I found that the formula above is the only way to go.  Working with the parents, you can take a difficult cadet and turn them into a good one, take a good cadet and turn them into a great one.  Each one has their potential, none are the same.  Our job is to make them into their best self.
TRue that.
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