What Uniform Changes Would You Like To See?

[0]

Very simple:

• Eliminate the embarrassing golf shirt "uniform" combo - save it for the golf course or some other "club".
• Eliminate the TPU and all it variants completely - given the corporate "suit", there is  is no need for this uniform combo
• Return to the original MAJCOM patch (with U.S. Air Force Auxiliary listed) - visual reenforcement of our history and relationship
• Remove flag from BDU and BBDU - not sure why anyone felt compelled to add this in the first place

The Golf shirt combo is great for flying activities in the summer also at mission base it looks more professional.

The  TPU/CSU I dont' agree with getting rid of it is great for those who don't meat the weight standards.

Going back to Aux Patch we don't need to the current one does the same but at the same time shows we are part of the AF.

I do have to agree with you on the removal of the Flag Patch, this was part of that entire "US Civil Air Patrol" debacle under he who shall not be named.  If you look at a member of the Air Force they do not wear the flag as a patch, that's an army thing. 

[MIKE]

The thing that those of you don't understand about the CSU/TPU is that it gives us who do not meet the standard for wear of AF Blue a real uniform to wear.

Oh... I sure do understand, and that's precisely why I want the uniform gone.

[A.Member]

The Golf shirt combo is great for flying activities in the summer also at mission base it looks more professional.

No sale.  I'm a pilot as well.  And more professional than what?  A t-shirt?

The  TPU/CSU I dont' agree with getting rid of it is great for those who don't meat the weight standards.

That's why the blazer combo exists.  There is absolutely no need for the TPU/CSU.

Going back to Aux Patch we don't need to the current one does the same but at the same time shows we are part of the AF.

The current patch makes no reference to our Air Force relationship.

(BTW, I can't believe I'm getting sucked into a uniform discussion.  I must be bored.  lol.  I vowed to myself that I'd try and avoid these - they get way too much attention)

[0]

The Golf shirt combo is great for flying activities in the summer also at mission base it looks more professional.

No sale.  I'm a pilot as well.  And more professional than what?  A t-shirt?

The  TPU/CSU I dont' agree with getting rid of it is great for those who don't meat the weight standards.

That's why the blazer combo exists.  There is absolutely no need for the TPU/CSU.

Going back to Aux Patch we don't need to the current one does the same but at the same time shows we are part of the AF.

The current patch makes no reference to our Air Force relationship.

So then ditch the golf shirt combo which has many uses and create another uniform that doesn't look professional at all. 

The Blazer cobo doesn't look as professional or as sharp as the TPU/CSU

The way the patch in it's shield design makes the reference.  And as I meant to add but didn't get in their at the same time, it shows our connection and at the same time it shows we're seperate. 

[A.Member]

So then ditch the golf shirt combo which has many uses and create another uniform that doesn't look professional at all.

No need to create any more uniforms there are plenty of options already.

The Blazer cobo doesn't look as professional or as sharp as the TPU/CSU

Opinions definitely differ.  If a person wants to wear a military style uniform, then conform to the standards and wear the USAF-style.

The way the patch in it's shield design makes the reference.  And as I meant to add but didn't get in their at the same time, it shows our connection and at the same time it shows we're seperate. 

It doesn't do it better than the original design.  Keep in mind that throughout the years this relationship has been flaunted and for good reason.  Evidence to this is the following patch during the 50's/60's:

[JohnKachenmeister]

I think we should all put a tac in the talk of ABU wear.  We have to wait till the Air Force approves that and most likely we won't see that any time soon.  I'm thinking 2010 at the earliest. 

The use of the ABU by CAP has already been approved by the USAF Uniform Board.  The only issue is what distinctive insignia will be worn by CAP members.

I can't wait to buy my green boots.  MCSS needs the $200 way more than I do.

[A.Member]

The use of the ABU by CAP has already been approved by the USAF Uniform Board.  The only issue is what distinctive insignia will be worn by CAP members.

Interesting.  Who /what is the source for that info?   I was told in no uncertain terms by my Wing logistics/supply officer, who is very qualified and knowledgeable, that we will be in BDU's for a very long, long time.  There is no shortage of BDU items.

[DNall]

I'm thinking 2011 will be the mandatory wear date for ABUs, but what the hell do I know.

Didn't we cover this already? ALL this information has been discussed in MASSIVE detail in a 30 page thread to advise the uniform cmte what the membership wants. That was only a few months ago. Every one of these items has been thoroughly suggested, debated, and either compromise reached or better idea developed.

The member input phase is over for now. The cmte is finalizing their work for presentation to NB within the year. CAP-USAF & CAP leadership  have already provided positive feedback. It's in the prep to present phase. Everyone (including me) will see it all when the time comes. You may not all agree with some things (that wouldn't be possible), but you will absolutely love others. Overall, you will be extremely impressed with what they've done.

Once the vote occurs, then the formal regulation will be put out, with a member comment period (as required by regs). This will be the time when everyone here needs to dig in & find any detailed or technical problems or less than clear areas that need to be tweaked.

Uniform changes are (informally) on hold till that process plays out. After it happens, then changes will be on hold again for a while.

[A.Member]

I'm thinking 2011 will be the mandatory wear date for ABUs, but what the hell do I know.

Didn't we cover this already? ALL this information has been discussed in MASSIVE detail in a 30 page thread to advise the uniform cmte what the membership wants. That was only a few months ago. Every one of these items has been thoroughly suggested, debated, and either compromise reached or better idea developed.

The member input phase is over for now. The cmte is finalizing their work for presentation to NB within the year. CAP-USAF & CAP leadership  have already provided positive feedback. It's in the prep to present phase. Everyone (including me) will see it all when the time comes. You may not all agree with some things (that wouldn't be possible), but you will absolutely love others. Overall, you will be extremely impressed with what they've done.

Once the vote occurs, then the formal regulation will be put out, with a member comment period (as required by regs). This will be the time when everyone here needs to dig in & find any detailed or technical problems or less than clear areas that need to be tweaked.

Uniform changes are (informally) on hold till that process plays out. After it happens, then changes will be on hold again for a while.

Thanks for the info.  I'll have to look for the thread

(As I mentioned earlier, I vowed to stay out of all these bleepity bleep uniform discussions...evidently that decision has it's downsides ).

[ColonelJack]

Opinions definitely differ.  If a person wants to wear a military style uniform, then conform to the standards and wear the USAF-style.

I could, of course, give you the 180-degree opposite viewpoint, which many members feel would be just as valid as yours above:

If you're so all-fired hot to wear the Air Force uniform ... then go join the Air Force.

I don't have any inside information, and I'm certain that Col. White or anyone else on the uniform committee will correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I have heard and seen, the CSU is not going anywhere.  There are many members who do conform to AF standards that wear the CSU.  And the hundreds, or maybe even thousands, who don't conform to the standards are certainly not going to let go of it -- not after paying $160 for the coat, they're not!  

Besides, to read your argument, you're saying, in essence, "Shape up or ship out!"  Is that the message you really want to send?

Jack

[A.Member]

I could, of course, give you the 180-degree opposite viewpoint, which many members feel would be just as valid as yours above:

Not really...because it's mine.

If you're so all-fired hot to wear the Air Force uniform ... then go join the Air Force.

Perhaps those people have or are currently.  Or perhaps they can no more.   Regardless, that's quite the Red Herring...

Besides, to read your argument, you're saying, in essence, "Shape up or ship out!"  Is that the message you really want to send?

...followed up with a good ole' Strawman.   Perhaps we'll be able to cover all the logical fallacies here.   What I said is that another uniform (the blazer) already exists for this purpose.  Simply wear that one.  What is your real concern with the wear of that uniform?   I suppose in using your logic, I could've responded with the argument you just presented to me.  That is:  if you want to look military, then go join the military.  Afterall, that's what you're trying to accomplish by wearing the TPU, right?

[DNall]

Or if you're so all-fired to serve your country, then meet the standards to do that or quit complaining until you've shown the personal discipline to overcome the challenges arrayed against you. The standard is NOT roll up an hour late with a box of doughnuts & the wrong uniform complaining about people telling you want to do. I'm not saying meet ht/wt or get out. I'm saying you are not owed anything for volunteering your time/money. You're asking for the opportunity to serve as part of the AF family. Either you can live with the rules that entails or you can whine & cry somewhere else.

Now, to clarify... I really don't know a whole lot about what's going on in that uniform cmte. I know the gist of the discussion from that 30pg thread & conversations during that timeframe when input was being taken & compromises reached. However, I have absolute utmost faith in these people, their direction, and quality of work. I rarely say that about real military officers, hardly ever about enlisted troops, and less so about CAP members. These people are squared away and deserve your trust in their competence to fix our uniform issues in a way that's good for the long-term health and interests of CAP. Again, you may disagree with some things, but I'm very confident you'll be impressed with other aspects as well as the overall product.

[rebowman]

No changes for the BDUs until we switch to ABUs. Let us wear warmer coats with the blues.

It'll be a real long time before CAP changes over to the ABUs.  Not even all of the USAF have been issued them yet (maybe all of the Active Duty but there are ALOT of National Guard Units that do not have ABUs).

[rebowman]

• Remove flag from BDU and BBDU - not sure why anyone felt compelled to add this in the first place

I do have to agree with you on the removal of the Flag Patch, this was part of that entire "US Civil Air Patrol" debacle under he who shall not be named.  If you look at a member of the Air Force they do not wear the flag as a patch, that's an army thing. 

I agree about the Flag.  We are supposed to have uniforms that are similiar to the USAF and their BDUs do not have the flag.

[SarDragon]

It could just be the photos I see, but isn't the Gill Robb Wilson ribbon the same as the National Commander's Citation ribbon,  just flipped over?

I know the question is not on uniforms, but maybe they should look at re-designing one of the two and issue a "freebie" of the new designed one to whoever currently has that ribbon (just a thought)

They are equivalent awards. The GRW replaced the NCC.. You are proposing a solution for a nonexistant problem, The folks who wear either know how their ribbon goes.

[SarDragon]

Looks better and most people have several pairs of khakis.

Really? What's your source for that? I don't own any! Brown isn't a good color for me.

[RiverAux]

Looks better and most people have several pairs of khakis.

Really? What's your source for that? I don't own any! Brown isn't a good color for me.

I've got 'em --- and every single one of them is a different shade of "khaki". 

[Smokey]

Gentlemen,

Let's not let this thread deteriorate into a "my opinion is better than your opinion" or it will get locked pronto.

After all we are the   CIVIL Air Patrol.......

Let's all be nice and play well together in the sandbox before someone's mother comes along and slaps the (Bleep) out of you.

Thank You

[DNall]

like there's a hundred shades of gray? Yeah, moving on.

[stratoflyer]

Makes sense to me to hold-off on the uniform reg. rewrite till the ABU's come out. t sounds like they are still long ways off but still closer than we all might think.

No more changes, please.

And one thing is for those who work with cadets--the AF-style uniforms are an essential part--we serve as the example and we lead as such.

My real wish regarding uniforms remains not with what we wear, but from whom we get it from.