CA Wing online ES testing -- why hasn't it gone national?

[heliodoc]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

EXACTLY

With NO real guidance established anywhere in the "regs" or the CAP ES curriculum, then it is ALL up to individual interpretation

You folks really got to lighten up.  However the training gets done barring, pencilwhipping, can be done on an individual basis or groups of 12 or less  For you CAP types ... that's squd sized training often known as hip pocket training.


And you know those little ol taskbooks?? Why do suppose they are BDU pocket sized??

Dare ya , just tell me....  then I"LL tell you why they are that size.  Bring your taskbooks EVERYWHERE and study it when you got a moment.

Leave these worry worts in the dust study when can. Test when you can and don't let somebody tell you to come back next month...... Delaying people is just POOR TIME MANAGEMENT!!!!

[Short Field]

Delaying people is just POOR TIME MANAGEMENT!!!!

And the fastest way to demotivate energetic newbies who joined because they want to contribute on SAR mission.

[RiverAux]

The task guides are small sized so that you can have them while training in the field and to have as a reference afterwards.  However, that does not mean that you are not expected to be able to complete the task without assistance or that you do not have to have knowledge-based task information memorized in order to become qualified. 

[Eclipse]

^ A valid opinion, but not shared by everyone.

[RiverAux]

You know, I have had some degree of confidence in our ES training system.  Sure, I knew that there was some occassional pencil-whipping going on, but to find out that there are people out there who believe that ES tasks are tested on an open-book basis just blows my mind. 

[lordmonar]

You know, I have had some degree of confidence in our ES training system.  Sure, I knew that there was some occassional pencil-whipping going on, but to find out that there are people out there who believe that ES tasks are tested on an open-book basis just blows my mind. 

As I said...they let us use the task guides at NESA...and it NESA let's you do it....you got to assume that it is kosher.

[RiverAux]

From the notes to the SET training:
"By the time students come to this stage, they should not need to be taught.  If they need additional instruction, then that should be accomplished at a later time."

Having to use a task guide clearly indicates that the student is not prepared to carry out a task or doesn't know what they need to know. 

Just because something is done at a national activity doesn't necessarily mean it is being done correctly.  Now I understand how people are getting all those quals done in a week -- they don't really know everything.

[Eclipse]

River, you're purposely misinterpreting what we are saying to you to make your argument.

[Short Field]

It really comes down to what your goal is.  My goal is to train a pool of qualified and motivated people I can trust to perform to a standard when I run a SAR mission.   

It is personnal because I want enough qualified and motivated people showing up so that the next time I report to fly as a MP on a SAREX, I don't get told I can't fly because I have to be the AOBD/PSC/OSC because only the CUL and GBD have a clue and the IC can't run the IMU.

[heliodoc]

So how training do you "pros" really get done??

Committing everything to memory?  What do you think we run here ... a paramilitary school where memorize or get kicked out??

Sure by the time "students\" come to the evaluator, you think these folks aren't nervous??

I know plenty of senior officers that do not do ES every day and are pretty rusty and when we go out in the field every body gets a chance to show their stuff and either succedd or fail.   We pick up the "fails" if you can tell em that train again.

You guys and memorization, you claim you are some super SAR guys

The SET, unless they are a degreed teacher or a true instructor, aSET is only a person who took ann online quiz and somehow now is the resident expert or SME (subject matter expert)

I carry the SET like any one here, BUT I know I am not perfect like some of you so called CAP Super SAR experts.

Plenty of egos going around and really the taskbooks when they state all this memorization who is ready and not ready, it is all subjective.

Someday their maybe true oversight on "CAP Training."  Until then it 's really up to the units and how they run things.  Not everybody in CAP trains accordingly.  What true CAP training standard is out there other than a bunch of volunteers interpreting on the fly

I still say carry that task book with you, study, prepare, even in the Army there was "some degree" of coaching, so don't try to tell me that you guys are so hard core that folks are up all night like a first year college chem class and 4 pots of coffee going over this stuff.  Be realistic and do not waste people time and tell them to come back "later"

Nip it in the bud and triain with the TASKBOOK and use it like it was meant to be used, whether its used for memorization or memory jogger during a CAP evaluation"

SET Training??  Is there any other than online??   If its not a 40 hr M 410 type or a DHS 40 hr up to two week training offsite or some school......  I wouldn't call o"online training for SET a true professional education or real certification type of class. I do not consider CAP online SET training as an end all cure all for evaluating anyone.

SHHHEEEESH

[arajca]

Given that I have seen members (both flavors) miss every point on several task evaluations even with the taskbook in hand and having been 'trained', I beleive a certain amount of memroization should be expected, especially with the time limited tasks (Use a Signal Mirror - 15 secs) and safety issues. If you can't do something that simple without using the taskbook, you really aren't ready to be on a ground team.

I do believe that the evaluators MUST use the task book when evaluating since that is the standard the member is being tested against. I have seen too many evaluators ignore the book and evaluate based on their "superior knowledge and skills". This usually is based on unique, unwritten unit specific requirements that no one who hasn't trained with that unit knows about.