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Author Topic: Hurricanes Hannah and Ike  (Read 14069 times)
DNall
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Posts: 3,721

« Reply #40 on: September 13, 2008, 01:52:47 PM »

well not to bad. ripped the metal cap do-dad off my chimney. Sister lost her fence & power for most of the night. Lots of stuff in the area got whacked pretty good though.

We've had flights up in the Corpus area (highbird for other agencies). I'm waiting on the call to go brief our EOC. Then I have to go eval my guard unit's facilities across town. ICP will relo to either there or NW side of town at DWH - I guess anyway, that's our two primaries. We have to see what the power & safety situations are at both locations.
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Major Carrales
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« Reply #41 on: September 13, 2008, 03:08:45 PM »

well not to bad. ripped the metal cap do-dad off my chimney. Sister lost her fence & power for most of the night. Lots of stuff in the area got whacked pretty good though.

We've had flights up in the Corpus area (highbird for other agencies). I'm waiting on the call to go brief our EOC. Then I have to go eval my guard unit's facilities across town. ICP will relo to either there or NW side of town at DWH - I guess anyway, that's our two primaries. We have to see what the power & safety situations are at both locations.


I was part of the COMM team at CAP STATION CORPUS CHRISTI, it went very well.  It was great to see the facility being put to the utility it was designed for.  We had an amazing amount of data going through the radio shack to Texas Task Force 1. 

We also provided the CAP Station as a stanging area for the TASK FORCE.  The missions objective was complete by 1600 hrs on 11 September 2008 and the Task Force was ready to "bug out" to the Houston area as the storm took its track away from South Texas.  They were airborne, via a USAF C130 by 1700 hrs.

It is truly amazing how agencies work.  The avarage person would be amazed.
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"We have been given the power to change CAP, let's keep the momentum going!"

Major Joe Ely "Sparky" Carrales, CAP
Commander
Coastal Bend Cadet Squadron
SWR-TX-454
DNall
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« Reply #42 on: September 14, 2008, 12:38:34 AM »

And we didn't do anything today, very disappointing. My folks checked in okay. Widespread wind damage. I lost a storm door & a chimney cap. One of my guys has a tree on his house. lots of limbs all over everywhere, damaged signs, lots of missing shingles & power is out almost universally - mines on though  :clap:

I checked our Sq hanger earlier & it was fine. Little water, but we get that in a good rainstorm anyway. No visible damage. Had to go check my guard unit at Ellington after that. CG was operating full speed. Our guys are elsewhere so all locked up, but still got power & good to go. There's a lot of cosmetic damage on the field. Power is out to the CAP bldg around the corner. The display F16 is upside down (got a couple pix I'll put up later), CG lost part of their sign, tower lost upper half of their siding, that kind of thing. ANG was  cleaning up. My office lost the AC box off the roof. System was still intact best I could tell. Reported all that up, no feedback on when/if/where ICP will relocate to, or if there's any missions to do.

I mentioned earlier I was working with the local EOC on supporting them. We ended up not too badly hit in the county. They were able to handle it w/o backup & took us off standby. They're aware of our capabilities though.

So, yeah, sitting around here watching CG & Task Force 1 doing lots of work. We're doing a lot of nothing... frustrating. If we don't have serious ops up tmrw, then I'm going to AAslt Monday. Maybe two weeks of getting my butt kicked will give me time to explain to my members why they aren't good enough to make a contribution but they should still hang around & train hard. -- Exaggerating the point out of frustration there Joe, but you know what I mean. This sucks!
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Major Carrales
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« Reply #43 on: September 14, 2008, 04:49:12 AM »

Dennis,

I leave for the Group V commande post in the morning, will be there until Wednesday.  Hope there is lots to do.

So, did you get to meet the folk sfrom TEXAS TASK FORCE 1, they are a great group of professionals!!!
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"We have been given the power to change CAP, let's keep the momentum going!"

Major Joe Ely "Sparky" Carrales, CAP
Commander
Coastal Bend Cadet Squadron
SWR-TX-454
KyCAP
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Posts: 447

Ky Wing Civil Air Patrol
« Reply #44 on: September 14, 2008, 08:21:03 PM »

Figured that the NHQ NOC would stand up their "C4" and be interfacing with 1st Air Force EPLO to FEMA to get taskings for CAP.   Is this going on or are the folks in the Wings doing the heavy lifting?   No releases on NHQ site about anything since the "bracing" release while the rest of the media is all over this?   Does NHQ have a paid PAO any longer?
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Maj. Russ Hensley, CAP
IC-2 plus all the rest. :)
Kentucky Wing
RiverAux
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« Reply #45 on: September 14, 2008, 08:33:00 PM »

C4s are only needed if we're going to be pumping a lot of out of state assets into an area.  Given the size of TX wing and how many planes they've got, they probably don't need a whole lot of help. 

National doesn't do any public affairs work on weekends as far as I can tell, which is a major weakness if we have a large mission on our hands. 
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DNall
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« Reply #46 on: September 14, 2008, 10:17:29 PM »

Well there's some stuff going on now. We've flown a congressman & doing a little photo work. Lots more coming. Communication within the org is just so freakin bad, and ops are always unacceptably slow to turn on. There's also no ground going on that I know of.

I'm not sure if they're concerned with drivability in the area or downed powerline risk, but I've driven all around south houston yesterday for the guard & it's no problems getting around. There's enough debris & water that you don't want to do 60 down feeder roads or side streets, but for the most part it's easy traveling. Certainly we should be able to turn those folks on for ELTs.

I think the bigger issue there is concern for cadets & fear that our folks can't drive around a little debris. I'm so incredibly tired of that attitude. There's also TX Task Force 1, which if you're not familiar with them, they're a great organization, but territorial & doesn't leave us a whole lot for GT. This is where I talk about FLWG RECON as the growth area for GT.

Far as resources. I can tell you now we got comm & air resources turned on pretty high, and not just in the Houston area. There's a good chance we'll be able to use at least air resources from other states to keep up the rotation.

I want to note here in the lessons learned category (or lessons already known maybe) no power & extremely shaky cell phone service happens after hurricanes for extended periods. Fixed ICPs are nice, but they are vulnerable. You absolutely MUST have a mobile command post trailer/vehicle. I don't mean just a comm van. I mean you need a full-up able to run a massive op ICP package, with generators, able to come take over some bldg somewhere & run Katrina-sized operations from close at hand, as in co-located to the local key command & control. We can talk about issues with CAP GT ops later.
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DNall
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« Reply #47 on: September 14, 2008, 10:23:00 PM »

by the way, a99 & b14 are most of the sortie codes in WIMRS if you're interested.
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DNall
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« Reply #48 on: September 15, 2008, 04:40:06 AM »

rolling in the morning to load up form a FEMA pod & distribute food/water in neighborhoods, see if anybody needs actual help, take some assessment pics. It has to be done, and not in any way degrading the importance of it, but not exactly the kind of thing I'd like to be doing.
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PHall
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« Reply #49 on: September 15, 2008, 05:06:37 AM »

rolling in the morning to load up form a FEMA pod & distribute food/water in neighborhoods, see if anybody needs actual help, take some assessment pics. It has to be done, and not in any way degrading the importance of it, but not exactly the kind of thing I'd like to be doing.

The vast majority of the work California Wing did after the Northridge earthquake was in support of the Red Cross.
We operated the distribution center for them and handed out a bunch of food and water while staffing Red Cross Emergency Response Vehicles with the Red Cross volunteers. We did this for almost six weeks
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DNall
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« Reply #50 on: September 15, 2008, 06:52:00 AM »

And that's fine. I got nothing against that. I wish they would use their own volunteers for that stuff so we can keep ours for more important missions, but whatever. My issue is just about anyone can do that kind of thing. You want to put a bunch of cadets & newer members on that kind of mission, then by all means. But, I'm a supposedly highly trained & certainly very experienced I guess high speed ES operator. Why would you task people like me to that kind of work? Is that all there is for CAP to do in this kind of thing? Are we really no more meaningful than just being any old volunteer? Why do you have paid & unpaid emergency responders right out in the middle of the mess doing big time work & we're sitting back here wishing we could make a serious difference?

If that's really the state of CAP's ES program, then we got a lot bigger problems then I would have thought before, and we need to take drastic action right away or we don't deserve to exist as an organization, much less a govt funded one. I certainly believe CAP is very capable of responding in those front line roles, and I do know the issues. I'm just very disappointed we're not realizing that potential, and equally that I put so much time & hard work into this & we're still not willing to meet standards to get in the fight.
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JoeTomasone
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« Reply #51 on: September 15, 2008, 02:07:03 PM »

And that's fine. I got nothing against that. I wish they would use their own volunteers for that stuff so we can keep ours for more important missions, but whatever. My issue is just about anyone can do that kind of thing.


One of the reasons that I won't support the Red Cross as a ham radio operator anymore is because they (ab)use us to pass all kinds of useless info - even over the telephone. 

...Yet another topic I'm going to shut up about since I am still in a good mood this morning.

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CAPPAO
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« Reply #52 on: September 15, 2008, 05:04:39 PM »

As everyone knows, CAP members may not self deploy. That said, many wonder why our assistance is not requested more often. Perhaps the following, copied verbatim from the June 2008 BOG meeting, best sums up why CAP is rarely called upon to contribute during times of natural disasters:

"BoG Action
MR. ROWLAND/EX presented a slide briefing which reviewed recent and ongoing
missions/exercises; Cost-effective Force Multiplier; A, B & C mission comparison
by category; and AF JROTC Orientation Flights.
In response to a question as to whether Civil Air Patrol voluntarily calls and offers help
following a known disaster/need or waits for the call from agencies needing volunteer
support that CAP can provide, Mr. Rowland responded that, in the past, CAP has
waited for the call. He added that management could get more involved and encourage
local units to initiate the offer of assistance. An added point was made for appropriate
publicity to help ensure awareness of CAPs availability and capability. Mr. Rowland
responded that CAP has a very good working relationship with the public affairs staff at
1st Air Force whose press releases always include the efforts of CAP."

So that's it. CAP HQ waits to be called.
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JoeTomasone
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« Reply #53 on: September 15, 2008, 05:17:55 PM »


That is, quite frankly, the way things are done. 

In an emergency situation, you call out for the resources you need based on what you know is available; and you call for them first locally, then expanding outward to higher levels of government as resources are either not found or exhausted. 

CAP should be informing Emergency Managers at all levels of government of our capabilities beforehand; they should know what we can do, when we can do it, and what it will cost beforehand so that it is written into their plan.    Squadron/Group ES Officers should make themselves known to their local EMs, Wing Directors of ES should have a very good working relationship with the State, and Region should be working well with FEMA.    National should be working with FEMA, DHS, etc.   But this all has to be in place beforehand.

I know of a lot of (small) groups like 4x4 off-road clubs that have tried to offer their services after an emergency has arisen only to be told that they can't be used at that time.   They get put off, but what they don't realize is that things are a little too chaotic to be dealing with an unknown entity at that point.
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cnitas
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« Reply #54 on: September 15, 2008, 06:36:26 PM »

CAP should be informing Emergency Managers at all levels of government of our capabilities beforehand; they should know what we can do, when we can do it, and what it will cost beforehand so that it is written into their plan.    Squadron/Group ES Officers should make themselves known to their local EMs, Wing Directors of ES should have a very good working relationship with the State, and Region should be working well with FEMA.    National should be working with FEMA, DHS, etc.   But this all has to be in place beforehand.

You are right until you drop to levels below wing.  Only Wing and higher can commit CAP resources.  Local squadrons should not enter into relationships where they cannot guarantee the allocation of their unit resources in the event they are called in an emergency.  The local authorities do not want to waste time with folks that do not command resources.

So under your model, CAP could only be called in instances where the state EM is involved.  This rules out most of the local SAR (missing persons) and DR missions.

Unless local units get the authority to deploy independent of Wing approval, or Wing ES Officers get local, we are stuck with what we have today.
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Mark A. Piersall, Lt Col, CAP
Frederick Composite Squadron
MER-MD-003
JoeTomasone
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« Reply #55 on: September 15, 2008, 06:47:18 PM »

You are right until you drop to levels below wing.  Only Wing and higher can commit CAP resources.  Local squadrons should not enter into relationships where they cannot guarantee the allocation of their unit resources in the event they are called in an emergency.  The local authorities do not want to waste time with folks that do not command resources.


You are correct, and I should have emphasized that more.  What I meant to convey is that local units should meet with their local EM and let them know about CAP and our capabilities so that in the event that CAP is needed, the proper requests can be made.     I didn't mean to imply a direct MOU style relationship, but merely that the local EM should know the local CAP folks so that they are a known quantity, even if the requests come from higher up.

And the "waste time" factor varies from EM to EM in my experience.   


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RiverAux
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« Reply #56 on: September 16, 2008, 02:17:24 AM »

National press release http://www.cap.gov/visitors/news/cap_news_online/index.cfm?fuseaction=display&nodeID=6192&newsID=4722&year=2008&month=9 says 8 planes did "up to" 40 sorties today.  Thats some pretty good turnaround times...
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DC
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« Reply #57 on: September 16, 2008, 02:27:43 AM »

For the first time in over a month NOAA has displayed this beautiful image.

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Eclipse
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« Reply #58 on: September 16, 2008, 02:56:31 AM »

One of my units got a call from their namesake airport, the Mayor called the NOC, and within hours as many as 21 people
were throwing sandbags or doing mission support for the airport and a neighboring town.

I was not "well pleased" that this was the 4th or 5th situation in the last year where the NOC refused A-support for a real world DR mission, but the expenses involved were effectively zero, so the rest is a nuance of health insurance and liability.
Its just very disappointing.  Apparently, at this point, its got to be Presidentially declared before we get involved an an A-Level, all other response is done as a local corporate mission.

Bottom line, this has been a long-time coming for us to be able to provide some visible support for the airport and surrounding communities.
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DNall
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« Reply #59 on: September 16, 2008, 07:40:48 AM »

CAP should be informing Emergency Managers at all levels of government of our capabilities beforehand; they should know what we can do, when we can do it, and what it will cost beforehand so that it is written into their plan.    Squadron/Group ES Officers should make themselves known to their local EMs, Wing Directors of ES should have a very good working relationship with the State, and Region should be working well with FEMA.    National should be working with FEMA, DHS, etc.   But this all has to be in place beforehand.

You are right until you drop to levels below wing.  Only Wing and higher can commit CAP resources.  Local squadrons should not enter into relationships where they cannot guarantee the allocation of their unit resources in the event they are called in an emergency.  The local authorities do not want to waste time with folks that do not command resources...

Yes & no. Should not enter into relationships? Yeah, I disagree there. I think it's highly appropriate for your Sq ES officer (maybe comm officer as well) to liaise with local EOCs/govt response mechanisms long before any disaster situation occurs. They should inform those folks & be involved as much as possible in response planning & joint exercises, even if only the table top variety. Yes of course you have to go to higher for resources, no one is disputing that. You should have someone on duty with them in the situation as well, and they aren't going to be an AL, they are going to be an LO, passing info to the ICP & helping the EOC understand how to request resources thru NOC or whatever the appropriate process may be.


By the way, pushed out approx 5250 meals/water, lots of additional water. Had a bottled water plant running full blast & giving away all they could make. Blew thru 1000 MREs & then gave out all they could get from Houston Food Bank. Ran out with quite a line left. Getting resources out is still an issue, and this was not nearly the most effected area. (Anybody feel like writing a press release for the MIO, I'm not going on a lot of sleep last few days).

ICP will be moving to West Houston this morning, and photo missions will continue full blast. I would anticipate for at least three days at that pace, and probably all week. Ground ops are still few & far between - mostly the isolated distribution stuff we did today.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2008, 07:44:45 AM by DNall » Report to moderator   Logged
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