I'm back from BCT.

[RogueLeader]

Hate to break it to you, but when I was at Ft Sill not too long ago, I saw Basic Trainee's and 13 series soldiers eating at BK, Anthony's Pizza, and what not. 

In fact, I just heard that Fort Sam Houston no longer allows the Drill Sergeant Hat to be worn by Drill Sergeants.  Cannot really disagree with that statement since I have not seen one here at Fort Sam and I am only right up the hill from them.  Supposedly, they now consider it too intimidating. 

They were probably on pass.  I can't speak for the AITers, but that was the only time we could for us Basics. 
The Round Brown is too intimidating   Nah, they need to suck it up.  The next cycle though, recruits will be allowed to use their cell phones for 2 hrs on Sunday.

[Whocares]

They were probably on pass.  I can't speak for the AITers, but that was the only time we could for us Basics. 
The Round Brown is too intimidating   Nah, they need to suck it up.  The next cycle though, recruits will be allowed to use their cell phones for 2 hrs on Sunday.

That is my point.  Basic Training has greatly changed since people have gone through it.  The way the Army is making changes, by this time next year, it will be a completely different experience for the new privates.  Go back far enough and privates were not allowed out of basic training land for the entire time there.  That means, no pass to Burger King unless you were just that top soldier who could max everything.  As one of my former NCOs (combat time in Viet Nam) once said, basic training is far easier now than it was back then.  Take one of "now NCOs" and they will say the same thing. 

The Army is making serious training changes to a number of AIT centers.  68 series has gone to almost all civilian instructors, no current military.  The NCOs are now just around for the "discipline" issues and administrative matters. 

The Army is trying to go away from the follow-me discipline it once instilled to the now combat awareness for all soldiers (enlisted, NCO, officer).  That is the problem when we started to fight a non-linear combat situation when we were still training for linear combat.  Give it a few more years and todays E-6s and E-7s are not going to be able to relate as well to new E-1s and E-2s. 

[Stonewall]

The next cycle though, recruits will be allowed to use their cell phones for 2 hrs on Sunday.

Ahhh...rumors.  I remember those things.  We had everything from "we're a test company for an extra tough BCT" or "I heard, after we graduate, they'll be able to have high n' tights" (we had to shave our heads the day before graduation.

Trust me, if anyone lets their basic trainees use cell phones it'll be the Air Force, and they haven't done it yet.

[Whocares]

Ahhh...rumors.  I remember those things.  We had everything from "we're a test company for an extra tough BCT" or "I heard, after we graduate, they'll be able to have high n' tights" (we had to shave our heads the day before graduation.

Trust me, if anyone lets their basic trainees use cell phones it'll be the Air Force, and they haven't done it yet.

Gotta always love the "we had it harder" concept.  You hear it everywhere, from CAP, School, Military, etc.  Every one after you always has it easier.

[hatentx]

I agree there is the I had it harder idea always.  When it is true and there is a lack of quaility trainies comming out of the Basic Training centers then we will see the real issue.  I personally believe that Basic should be as stressful as possible.  If you are unable to handle a controlled enviroment of stress then how are you going to handle combat.  I guess it just worries me that the standards are dropping to much.  Eating at BK and stuff would have been unheard of the few years ago I went at Relaxin Jackson.  I by no mean went through a tough Basic but we did have the stress added to the program and although it was not the most stress I had been under before then it was good training and when I did end up down range I was able to do much better than some new soldiers I have seen come in through some of the more relaxed Basics.  When bullets fly in and motars drop you don't need to think what is my next action but you react accordingly by the drills that had been drilled into your head and the attention to detail drilled into you from the begining and knowing the standards that are expected. 
We don't need wall to wall counciling again but maybe just wall counciling.

[RogueLeader]

Ahhh...rumors.  I remember those things.  We had everything from "we're a test company for an extra tough BCT" or "I heard, after we graduate, they'll be able to have high n' tights" (we had to shave our heads the day before graduation.

Trust me, if anyone lets their basic trainees use cell phones it'll be the Air Force, and they haven't done it yet.

They are not rumors when the Brigade Commander on down to the Battery Commanders says they will have the privilege.

[PHall]

Ahhh...rumors.  I remember those things.  We had everything from "we're a test company for an extra tough BCT" or "I heard, after we graduate, they'll be able to have high n' tights" (we had to shave our heads the day before graduation.

Trust me, if anyone lets their basic trainees use cell phones it'll be the Air Force, and they haven't done it yet.

They are not rumors when the Brigade Commander on down to the Battery Commanders says they will have the privilege.

It's still a rumor until it actually happens. 

I can't tell you how many times that I have been told the "the bosses" that something was going to happen and then it didn't.

Don't believe it until it actually happens. And second hand info don't count.

[Stonewall]

I got hit with a pool stick by a drill sergeant at BCT while in the front lean and reast position.  He immediately regreted it, but he did it nonetheless.

I vividly remember the fight between two recruits that had blood spatter on the wall, covering about a 4 x 4 ft area.

I remember watching, with my own two eyes, a drill sergeant kick a recruit in the side during push-ups.

I watched as a drill sergeant threw an M-16 at a recruit knocking out a tooth.

I remember laying in bed one night as tears rolled down my face.

This is no lie; no exageration.  As much as I wanted to join the Army as a kid (cadet), I couldn't believe what I witnessed and experienced.  I thought I went to hell, not Army BCT.  I was in BCT with criminals, drug users and high school dropouts.  Ironically, we had a recruit named Dick Cheney (hard to forget that name).  He ended up getting kicked out after he did a Full Metal Jacket style blanket party on a weak guy.  Dude had broken ribs and coughed up blood.

I don't think BCT should be anything like what I described above, but I do think it should be tough and the creature comforts of life such as freedom, liberty and communications should be practically non existent.

[Whocares]

When bullets fly in and motars drop you don't need to think what is my next action but you react accordingly by the drills that had been drilled into your head and the attention to detail drilled into you from the begining and knowing the standards that are expected. 

While I agree to a certain point, I do think that even the lowest private needs that "what is my next action" bit.  True, officers and NCOs should be in charge, but what happens when their vehicle is cut off from the rest of the convoy (aka get lost).  It may be just an E-4 and a bunch of privates.  Or look what happened at the prison.  What was their excuse?  "I was just following orders".  What about that soldier medic that has been assigned to that infantry platoon with no other medics around? 

We are in more need of that "Battlemind" concept than we were years ago.  While the FBCB2 is nice, it does not always work and we need people making the appropriate decisions at the right time.  The Army is going to that modular system.  This includes units and roles, but also the individual soldiers themselves.  We literally are in a war where the lowest private can make an international incident.  Yes, those privates need to have disciplined drilled into their thick friggin skulls, but they also need that decision making skill their too.  And trust me, I cannot wait to get out of IET area bases.

[DNall]

Hate to break it to you, but when I was at Ft Sill not too long ago, I saw Basic Trainee's and 13 series soldiers eating at BK, Anthony's Pizza, and what not. 

In fact, I just heard that Fort Sam Houston no longer allows the Drill Sergeant Hat to be worn by Drill Sergeants.  Cannot really disagree with that statement since I have not seen one here at Fort Sam and I am only right up the hill from them.  Supposedly, they now consider it too intimidating. 

AIT isn't basic. They're actually soldiers, even if they don't know anything yet. I have no issue letting AIT soldiers have some extra privileges, within reason. Basic Trainees should not be eating fast food till pass right before graduation. If they are, that's jacked up.

AIT Drill Sgts are not the same as basic either. They are there to help the soldiers maintain Army standards and function as a practical holding unit leader while the troops are in an academic program. They aren't there to make soldiers. I'm not sure we really even need DS qual'd NCOs in those positions. Really any decent PSG would be just fine. So, I don't think it's a big deal if they wear the campaign hat or not.

[hatentx]

In the AIT area there acually is a push away from have the DS there as explained to me by a new instructor at the school house.  The instructor is acually doing all the DS duties as well as teach.
I think we are on the same point were the lowest private needs to have knowldge on what to do next but as it comes to basic soldiering ie.  react in incomming, preform buddy first aid, CBRN proceedures as well as other simple things that need to be drilled and other action can be built upon as TTP at the unit.  It is the units job to make leaders it is basics to build soldiers.  Some leadership is learned but it is mostly focused on basic soldiering skills.

[jb512]

And how much of the leadership responsibility is transfered to the students in AIT/Tech School?  I know that the AF has "ropes" that function as element leaders and I'm assuming the red rope is kind of like a flight sergeant.  How much of a role do they play in all of this?

[hatentx]

I was a Squad leader in basic and AIT and now in the real army as well and although they taught me a little bit about leadership amd the such I would say it was more set up as a learning tool to show recruits how the formation and leadership structure is in the real army.  The biggest thing I did as a squad leader was insure that the latrines and living areas were cleaned before work call formation.  That is now 1/10000000000 of what I deal with now.  But then again that is the Army.  I don't know how the AF is on that stuff.  I would think on par or slightly behind where the Army begins to develope small group leaders.  But that again is just my thought.

[citizensoldier]

Jaybird...you're going to AF BMT.  While I was at Lackland last month, I saw basic trainees hanging out at BK during their 3rd week.  Seriously, and it wasn't a freak accident.  Come to find out it's pretty normal for them to have down time and go to the mini BX and eat fast food.

GO AIR FORCE!!!

Hate to break it to you, but when I was at Ft Sill not too long ago, I saw Basic Trainee's and 13 series soldiers eating at BK, Anthony's Pizza, and what not. 

In fact, I just heard that Fort Sam Houston no longer allows the Drill Sergeant Hat to be worn by Drill Sergeants.  Cannot really disagree with that statement since I have not seen one here at Fort Sam and I am only right up the hill from them.  Supposedly, they now consider it too intimidating. 

This is all part of the new NCO led AIT which is supposed to help transition troops into Big Army easier.

[DNall]

And roll DSs back to the trail so we can churn out more troops. Honestly.. i mean basic is for sure dif. I don't know if I'd say easier. It's just more about actual soldiering than the silly stuff. Some stuff really is lax though, and that's unfortunate when undisciplined jacked up soldiers come out to units. A lot of the problem now though is the quality of people we're letting in the door. I can tell you there was a whole roster of champs when I went down there & it pissed me the hell off right from the start. Freakin felons & folks with the shakes cause they just put down the pipe long enough to get in. It's crazy. It's hard to say if it's the training or the raw material that is more responsible for what we get out the other side. I wish I knew.